I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]If it can be argued that 10,000 Maniacs was the best band to come out of the 80's...'nuf said about the '80's.  There were some good bands in the '80's of course...but not many, compared to other decades.
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]

    So in your opinion, what bands made the 90's that much better than the 80's?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from LloydDobler. Show LloydDobler's posts

    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]Not to get picky but Dire Straits was a 70s band. Their first record, I believe, dropped in 1978.  Definite 70s band, with roots tracing back to the early 1970s. Also, they were sort of JJ Cale meets Elvis or something.  Very unique band who didn't hit it big until MTV, ironically. I think even the Pretenders were well underway in the 1970s, too.  The Cars are another.  10,000 Maniacs to this day are arguably the best band to come out of the 1980s.  U2 and REM as well. I said it above, over and over.  Of course, there are exceptions.  But, in no way, are the bands I just listed junk or in the same vein of the garbage that was processed out of the 1980s.   Go back to my first post and I clearly introduce my opinion as to WHY things went into overdrive in say, 1976. Disco is one reason, but also the industry was changing in that arenas were now used for shows, stadiums and the festival idea came into play, which meant more bands on a bill, etc.   It made it easier for bands to get notoriety and sell even if they weren't that good. You could catch fire with one single and that was all you needed. A Day on the Green, for example in Oakland CA in 1976, is a perfect example.  The festival is a way to make a lot of money in one shot.  It's almost foolproof for promoters and the people/bands involved if it's priced well and marketed well. This, in a nutshell, started to water down music.  Some might argue, the 1950s were all about rado and singles, which is true, but radio was also new, at least in terms of using it as a way to market onself. So, it's not fair to compare. Once the 1960s hit, making albums were clear artforms and the men were separated from the boys, no doubt. This is why the late 70s and a regression sort of sets up the weak 1980s. Prior to this era, the only way for bands and artists to communicate with fans was to make a record pretty much EVERY YEAR.  Their tours on those albums were the platform to generate the revenue needed.  Even the big bands and artists had to have it. That's why some records had 8 tracks on them. Today, that doesn't even make some artist's final tracklistings. They'd release a record per year, around 8 or 9 tracks, some of it not ebven that good, but sometimes half of it was filler.  When did the big artists or bands start to stumble? IMO, it was the mid 1970s.   Almost every band that started in the 1960s, started to put out filler albums.  This is mostly due to their peak eras as artists fading (lasts generally about 6-8 years), but it's also because the record companies knew they could market an album with filler, a cover and 2 makeshift singles as well. Just look at Led Zeppelin for example:  1. 1975 Physical Grafitti: Double album. True piece of art, arguably their best record. 2. Pressure to follow that up, record company wanted another immediately, 1976's Presence.  Not a real good album, most of it filler, but 2 solid singles or radio friendly type songs to sell the record. My cut off point is 1975, basically.  The transition away from the art standing on its own and it becoming more manufactured started in the late 1970s, which set up the 1980s. MTV only put this concept into overdrive. Again, IMO, it was a combo of gimmick genres like disco and punk, sort of merging with this thing that everyone called "new wave" at the dawn of the MTV era, which in turn buried the good stuff. This is not to say all punk or new wave was bad, just that it was a fad sort of thing. Disco was just horrendous, IMO, but I can totlly dig why some wanted it to dance to, party with, etc.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]
    I guess it depends on how you're defining it. The Straits' debut album came out in '78, but the recorded three -- including, IMO, their best with "Brothers in Arms" -- in the '80s. So I guess it's how you interpret it.
    With the Pretenders, no debate there. Their first album (again, their best, IMO) came out in '80.
    It really sounds like we agree more than we disagree.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from leafswin. Show leafswin's posts

    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    I always subscribe to the thought of to each his/ her own.. Once again I loved  alot of the music in the 80's. It was filled with a lot of Shyte as well. But there was so much good.  As far as Smith/Pixies? They are every good and better for my musical interests than bnads like Traffic, CSNY, The Bandand those Southern Rock bands. Those were garbage to me.. Garbage! I never got Led Zeppelin either. Just not into that. Could never deal with Plants voice. But I respect that many others loved them... As far as writing music? I would put Shane MacGowans early writings up with anybody ever.. Difford and Tillbrook.. Morrisey. Great Lyracists.. Even Paul Westerberg had some great 80's writing moments.. Even today I will sit and listen to REM's Murmur and enjoy that ten fold over any beatles album. just my tastes and likes..

    Again there was tons of bad music in the 80's as there was in the 60's. Some horrific junk in that era too.. It goes back to each his/her own
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were : I guess it depends on how you're defining it. The Straits' debut album came out in '78, but the recorded three -- including, IMO, their best with "Brothers in Arms" -- in the '80s. So I guess it's how you interpret it. With the Pretenders, no debate there. Their first album (again, their best, IMO) came out in '80. It really sounds like we agree more than we disagree.
    Posted by LloydDobler[/QUOTE]

    Yep. Not really trying to split hairs here at all on the dates. I am just saying the roots of those bands are really in the 1970s. 

    Dire Straits also had Communique in 1979 with Lady Writer on it, but Making Movies from the next year is probably their best record.  Their first record sounds nothing like what they ended up becoming. It almost sounds like a JJ Cale album.

    Brothers in Arms would be 2nd for me.

     
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    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were : So in your opinion, what bands made the 90's that much better than the 80's?
    Posted by Hfxsoxnut[/QUOTE]

    Wow. Are you serious? Bands or artists?

    The Black Crowes
    Pearl Jam
    Phish
    Nirvana
    Alice In Chains
    Radiohead
    Widespread Panic
    Dave Matthews Band
    Stone Temple Pilots
    The Verve
    The Jayhawks

    All these bands had roots in the 1980s, but didn't put out their first record until 1990 or beyond.  Some people would put Dave Matthews, PJ and Phish at the top of the heap, but across the board with songwriting, musicianship and live, it's the Black Crowes and Pearl Jam for me.  Most consistent and most creative/best records.

    In the 1980s, the pantheon bands were U2 and REM, IMO. I've seen people rattle of the Pixies and Smiths here, but there were also many indie bands like that in the 1990s who you could put up there with those bands.    I think the 10,000 Maniacs had better songs than the Pixies and the Smiths, but that's just me. Robert Buck could craft a melody and play the guitar.
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    OK, just for fun, why don't I list 25 really good albums released in the 80's, and if you feel like it you can list 25 really good albums released in the 90's.  I would suggest that to make it more interesting, only one album per artist.
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    Here's my list of 25 really good albums from the 80's.  I left out U2 and REM because they're not personal favorites.  The ones I listed are all stuff I really like personally.  

    1980   Judas Priest   British Steel
    1981   Blue Oyster Cult   Fire Of Unknown Origin
    1981   Joe Ely    Musta Notta Gotta Lotta
    1981   The Tubes   The Completion Backward Principle
    1982   The Clash   Combat Rock
    1982   Gary Moore   Corridors Of Power
    1982   Rory Gallagher   Jinx
    1983   Def Leppard   Pyromania
    1983   The Police   Synchronicity
    1983   Big Country   The Crossing
    1983   Yes   90125
    1983   Thin Lizzy   Thunder And Lightning
    1984   Van Halen   1984
    1984   Bruce Springsteen   Born In The USA
    1984   Iron Maiden   The Number Of The Beast
    1985   Dire Straits   Brothers In Arms
    1985   John Mellencamp   Scarecrow
    1986   Paul Simon   Graceland
    1986   XTC   Skylarking
    1987   Guns N Roses   Appetite For Destruction
    1988   Steve Earle   Copperhead Road
    1988   The Pogues   If I Should Fall From Grace With God
    1988   Living Colour   Vivid
    1989   Neil Young   Freedom
    1989   Motley Crue   Dr. Feelgood
      
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]I always subscribe to the thought of to each his/ her own.. Once again I loved  alot of the music in the 80's. It was filled with a lot of Shyte as well. But there was so much good.  As far as Smith/Pixies? They are every good and better for my musical interests than bnads like Traffic, CSNY, The Bandand those Southern Rock bands. Those were garbage to me.. Garbage! I never got Led Zeppelin either. Just not into that. Could never deal with Plants voice. But I respect that many others loved them... As far as writing music? I would put Shane MacGowans early writings up with anybody ever.. Difford and Tillbrook.. Morrisey. Great Lyracists.. Even Paul Westerberg had some great 80's writing moments.. Even today I will sit and listen to REM's Murmur and enjoy that ten fold over any beatles album. just my tastes and likes.. Again there was tons of bad music in the 80's as there was in the 60's. Some horrific junk in that era too.. It goes back to each his/her own
    Posted by leafswin[/QUOTE]

    I concur with your philosophy. Taste in music is subjective. It's actually refreshing to find someone who doesn't fall in line with loving all the music greats they are "supposed" to. My reaction to music is purely emotional. I follow my ears and my heart without regard to my perception of musical talent or songwriting ability or whatever other subjective criteria you want to use. I can acknowledge that there are different talent levels, but it does not follow that I will only enjoy music based on that criteria. Opera singers, for example, are probably technically superior to almost any pop music singer. But that doesn't mean I will enjoy opera. It is often hard to separate personal taste from our assessment of what is "good" or "bad" music.
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were : Wow. Are you serious? Bands or artists? The Black Crowes Pearl Jam Phish Nirvana Alice In Chains Radiohead Widespread Panic Dave Matthews Band Stone Temple Pilots The Verve The Jayhawks All these bands had roots in the 1980s, but didn't put out their first record until 1990 or beyond.  Some people would put Dave Matthews, PJ and Phish at the top of the heap, but across the board with songwriting, musicianship and live, it's the Black Crowes and Pearl Jam for me.  Most consistent and most creative/best records. In the 1980s, the pantheon bands were U2 and REM, IMO. I've seen people rattle of the Pixies and Smiths here, but there were also many indie bands like that in the 1990s who you could put up there with those bands.    I think the 10,000 Maniacs had better songs than the Pixies and the Smiths, but that's just me. Robert Buck could craft a melody and play the guitar.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Alice in Chains
    - clearly the best band, IMO, to come out of the 90's. In fact, I think AIC is a band for all ages. Dave Matthews Band clearly one of the most over-rated bands of all time; again IMO. I am a giant fan of PJ, Soundgarden, Tool - etc.

    80's bands that top most on this 90's list, IMO - Def Leppard, REM, Queensryche, Guns and Roses, Enuff z' Nuff, The Cure, U2, Megadeth, Anthrax and a few others. I am going to add Iron Maiden to this list as Bruce Dickinson joined in 81.

    As always - music through the decades is a beautiful mosaic with many bands having the ability to cross generations and decades.
     
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  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BassFishing. Show BassFishing's posts

    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    Agree on Dave Matthews.  Great band, unique sound, but agree on it being incredibly overrated.  I remember when their first album came out and it was pretty cool.  1994, I believe.  But then, it became some trendy thing and I could never understand what the fuss was over the material.  It sort of all bled together to me.

    Chicks like the way he looks and the next thing you know their selling out stadiums.  What a country. lol

    I just listed them because they are a pillar of the 1990s whether you and I like it or not. Same deal with Nirvana or Phish. Both incredibly overrated bands, but nevertheless, iconic for the era.

    Alice In Chains were very good, even if I am not a huge fan. Always liked what they did.  Cantrell can play, too.  But, they aren't on the level of a PJ or the Crowes in terms of depth of songwriting and longevity at this point, obviously.

     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

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    [QUOTE]Agree on Dave Matthews.  Great band, unique sound, but agree on it being incredibly overrated.  I remember when their first album came out and it was pretty cool.  1994, I believe.  But then, it became some trendy thing and I could never understand what the fuss was over the material.  It sort of all bled together to me. Chicks like the way he looks and the next thing you know their selling out stadiums.  What a country. lol I just listed them because they are a pillar of the 1990s whether you and I like it or not. Same deal with Nirvana or Phish. Both incredibly overrated bands, but nevertheless, iconic for the era. Alice In Chains were very good, even if I am not a huge fan. Always liked what they did.  Cantrell can play, too.  But, they aren't on the level of a PJ or the Crowes in terms of depth of songwriting and longevity at this point, obviously.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Crowes did take a long hiatus and agree on longevity compared to P.J. If Staley had only beaten his addiction, this band would have soared even higher. As for songwriting, I think AC beats them both during their hey day.
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were : Crowes did take a long hiatus and agree on longevity compared to P.J. If Staley had only beaten his addiction, this band would have soared even higher. As for songwriting, I think AC beats them both during their hey day.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    I don't think 3 years is a long hiatus, but point taken.  The Crowes have had more addiction problems than any band around, including Alice in Chains.  Staley was a mess, no doubt, and it very likely compromised their momentum, but it did with a lot of bands who had those kinds of issues, internally. AIC was a GREAT band, even if I am not a diehard grunge fan, but the Crowes were throwing away songs in 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996 and 1997 that a band like that would have loved to have had for release. Now, maybe AIC had dozens of great songs cast aside during that time, too, I don't know.

    Overall, I think we generaly agree on the impact of the above listed bands' impact on that decade. 

     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]Agree on Dave Matthews.  Great band, unique sound, but agree on it being incredibly overrated.  I remember when their first album came out and it was pretty cool.  1994, I believe.  But then, it became some trendy thing and I could never understand what the fuss was over the material.  It sort of all bled together to me. Chicks like the way he looks and the next thing you know their selling out stadiums.  What a country. Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    I guess I don't really follow the 'over-rated' part...like critically, or...?

    ...unless you're talking about his die-hard fans, of which there are many and particularly rabid at that....mostly young and mostly female, but not entirely of each.

    And in my partly qualified experience, the number one reason is: sex.  Dave is an incredible hornpout in his lyrics, and the girls love it.




     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]So true about Dave Matthews....so overrated.  You'd have to be very stoned to sit through a DM concert.  "But Dave's lyrics are incredible and the musicianship is amaaazing"...yeah OK.
    Posted by bellhorn_[/QUOTE]

    It's not necessary, but it helps...

    ...that is, if one isn't distracted by the thousands of attractive young females who frequent his shows (and never seem to age, like I do).


    That said, the band is definitely one of the tightest live acts out there, without a doubt....
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were : It's not necessary, but it helps... ...that is, if one isn't distracted by the thousands of attractive young females who frequent his shows (and never seem to age, like I do). That said, the band is definitely one of the tightest live acts out there, without a doubt....
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    As with so much music- we compare apples to oranges, but no doubt that The Black Crowes were insanely great.
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were : As with so much music- we compare apples to oranges, but no doubt that The Black Crowes were insanely great.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    I tend to agree re: the Crowes, but I don't think this message was intended for me....
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were : I guess I don't really follow the 'over-rated' part...like critically, or...? ...unless you're talking about his die-hard fans, of which there are many and particularly rabid at that....mostly young and mostly female, but not entirely of each. And in my partly qualified experience, the number one reason is: sex.  Dave is an incredible hornpout in his lyrics, and the girls love it.
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]

    Dude, no offense, but they like the light sounds of the band and the ability to singalong, not the ocassional one-off sexual innuendo in some lyrics that most all bands have, if not more so than freaking Dave Matthews.


     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were : As with so much music- we compare apples to oranges, but no doubt that The Black Crowes were insanely great.
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    At one point, yeah, they were literally a juggernaut in the early/mid 90s.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from EnjoyEverySandwich. Show EnjoyEverySandwich's posts

    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were


    :::::::Obligatory defense of women post::::::


    An awful lot of generalizations about what "chicks" and "girls" like in music.   Kinda makes all the generalizations about music from the different decades seem tame by comparison.

    I am finding the discussion on this thread interesting, but then the whole "women like Dave Matthews for such-and-such shallow reasons" discussion is really condescending.   I mean, fellas, there are a few of us here, you could just ask an actual female. 

    Really -- you can ask us, we don't bite  -- unless, you know, you want us to.  ;)


    :::::Descending the soapbox -- return to your regular programming::::::



     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]:::::::Obligatory defense of women post:::::: An awful lot of generalizations about what "chicks" and "girls" like in music.   Kinda makes all the generalizations about music from the different decades seem tame by comparison. I am finding the discussion on this thread interesting, but then the whole "women like Dave Matthews for such-and-such shallow reasons" discussion is really condescending.   I mean, fellas, there are a few of us here, you could just ask an actual female.  Really -- you can ask us, we don't bite  -- unless, you know, you want us to.  ;) :::::Descending the soapbox -- return to your regular programming::::::
    Posted by EnjoyEverySandwich[/QUOTE]

    Okay, I'll bite (just kidding!)

    Why do women like Dave Matthews?


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    As a regular girl on this forum, I find nothing about the discussion (of DMB) condescending at all.   Don't feel the need to be "defended" in an obligatory way, but thanks anyway.  

    Discussed it loads of times here.   Not much new.  

    Been here two years, if I want to speak up, I do, and feel free to do so if anything offends or bothers me.  I've never been treated with anything but respect for my opinions, and have been told that my perspective is interesting and valued many times.  However,  if I were going to take offense at a few generalizations about the female persuasion now and again in the context of RnR, I would have left by now.  :D   

    (note, this in reference to a music discussion only -- in other arenas, that might be a diff story)

    This is a music forum, so I *do* take it in context.  I find it more eye opening that condescending.  They are stating opinions.   Not facts.  Why is it condescending to say that there's an aura about a band that draws women?   If the shoe fits ...

    Is it condescending to infer or opine that the reason a band draws men is due to it having a hot, chick lead singer, if women were the ones making the judgment call?   Gah.  

    I find it fascinating that it's widely known that DMB are like bees to honey to women, as described by men.  I find it amusing.  Just my take, and you can take it or leave it.  I won't take offense.  :)   Peace.  

    but then the whole "women like Dave Matthews for such-and-such shallow reasons" discussion is really condescending.   I mean, fellas, there are a few of us here, you could just ask an actual female.  
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were : Okay, I'll bite (just kidding!) Why do women like Dave Matthews?
    Posted by StalkingButler[/QUOTE]

    Rawr.   :)

    HA.  Refer to other conversations we've had here --- I don't like DMB.  

    And have stated that many times.   :P

    Yet, I feel there is validity to the opinions of Matty and BassFi -- and this isn't the first (or only) place I've seen them.   
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were : Dude, no offense, but they like the light sounds of the band and the ability to singalong, not the ocassional one-off sexual innuendo in some lyrics that most all bands have, if not more so than freaking Dave Matthews.
    Posted by BassFishing[/QUOTE]

    Dude, none taken...

    ...but I do have some insight into this - which I consider a bona fide cultural phenomenon like any other - having been to over a dozen Dave shows dating back to almost 20 years.  (My dear wife is also a huge fan and very active in the DMB sphere.)

    First, like many live-focused, jam-type bands, their radio hits don't represent their body of work very well.  Most live versions are extended instrumentals, jazz workouts, and various improvs.

    The culture around the band is also jam-oriented, but neither as older/folky as The Dead, nor as edgy/idiosyncratic as Phish.  It's tempting, but not threatening; laid-back, but not complacent; kind of hip, but not hipster...

    And the sexual references in Dave's lyrics - endlessly goofy though they may be - are not a one-off...they are literally everywhere in almost everything he writes.  Even "Crash Into Me", a well-known hit, is rather blatant...no innuendo needed.  A quick glance affirms this, and anecdotally, so do many of my friends (male and female) who are fans.

    I'm just noting what I've seen and heard in person and comparing to what I know about popular music.  And as a casual fan in a world of die-hards, it's quite remarkable to watch.
     
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    Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were

    In Response to Re: I was recently reminded of how bad the 80's were:
    [QUOTE]:::::::Obligatory defense of women post:::::: An awful lot of generalizations about what "chicks" and "girls" like in music.   Kinda makes all the generalizations about music from the different decades seem tame by comparison. I am finding the discussion on this thread interesting, but then the whole "women like Dave Matthews for such-and-such shallow reasons" discussion is really condescending.   I mean, fellas, there are a few of us here, you could just ask an actual female.  Really -- you can ask us, we don't bite  -- unless, you know, you want us to.  ;) :::::Descending the soapbox -- return to your regular programming::::::
    Posted by EnjoyEverySandwich[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, but I didn't mean any offense.  Please accept my apology.

    But incidentally, I am speaking from both observation and experience, not only from the various shows I've attended but also from my darling wife, who is currently vying for the title "DMB Fan #1".  She has mentioned these same things to me as her own thoughts and those of the larger fan community she is in.  And not for nothing, but she has her own perspective on music - like me - cultivated through hundreds of live shows throughout her adult life.

    Now, I may be guilty of bias since she's my wife, but I trust her implicitly, and I accept her musical acuity as one of the most knowledgeable I've ever met.  She would also never regard "sex" as a shallow reason for liking anything, much less as it pertains to pop music.

    Lastly, I will posit that many male DMB fans like them for the same reason: it's just plain sexy
     

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