Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    Please allow me to get the following out of the way:  "Smells Like Teen Spirit" is a sorely over-played song.  Still a great song, but it's well worn. 

    Nirvana.   Comments come and go in other threads about this band, fairly often from what I notice, so this thread can capture all of your collective thoughts: yay, nay, or (my personal fave) -- meh-be?  How do you feel about Nirvana?

    Did Nirvana change the face of alternative ("alternative" should be redacted) rock music? Did they speak to a generation, but not your generation?  Therefore, left no impact on you?  

    Serioulsy, folks.  Do you think the idolotry around Cobain is a little inflated, despite his untimely death?

    Thoughts, anyone?   
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    I like Graham Parker's live cover of "In Bloom". Nirvana did have a few catchy tunes but I never got into any of that rainy Northwest, angst-laden, heavy vocals, grunge stuff. Just not my style.

    As far as influence on a genre of music, well don't get me started. You don't want me preaching again about how little I care about classifying music. Wink
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from kargiver. Show kargiver's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    I was never into what amounted only to raspy screaming to me, but there's no question Nirvana impacted their genre.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    I've never known what to think of the Nirvana phenomenon.  I think they have a handful of good songs but they don't rate especially high in my musical hierarchy.  I think a lot of the mystique does come from the Cobain image and suicidal end.  

    One of their songs that does intrigue me is 'Come As You Are', in which he keeps saying 'I don't have a gun'...pretty creepy in retrospect. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    Okay, fair enough, DD.  But really?  Who's classifying?   Nirvana brought something new to the music scene, and at the time, it was given a name.  Some say Nirvana put that "sound" on the map.  And that "sound" had an impact and influenced other bands.   Not a word about classifying.  Cool

    And just to let you know, your influence insofar as your points on categorization, have had an impact on me.   I've begun playing devil's advocate when I hear someone say that they like a certain genre of music.  So don't go underestimating the power of your "sermons"; I've been listening when you were preaching.  :D
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    Yoga, you asked did they change the face of alternative rock? What is alternative rock but a genre? Couldn't we just ask did they influence pop/rock music in general? That's why I brought it up again.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    It's not so much that the "mystique" around Kurt Cobain is overdone, it's not so much that Nirvana may be over-rated in terms of their being better known them some of their contemporaries. It would be a slam dunk if they s*cked...but they didn't.

    Nirvana led the parade of a growing number of harder rock groups bouncing the techno, hip hop, pop and rap garbage aside ( briefly , anyway and for that alone , I love them). They played a raw style of hard edged rock not widely heard since the late seventies with Neil Young's Rust Never Sleeps and the early AC/DC LPs among others. The 80's while a good decade for experimanting with keyboard oreinted rock, more or less pushed hard guitar driven rock aside. The early 90's grunge style was a statement that guitars were back and badder than ever.

    For my money, Alice In Chains and Soundgarden were superior. But let's not slight the boys from Nirvana, they were F*#&ing awesome and 'NEVERMIND' , despite all the hype was the right album at the right time...and I think the songs are legendary and the angst is real, not faked ( as witnessed by the fact that the writer and group leader was obviously a troubled young man).

    The Sex Pistols were at the forefront of punk in the mid 70's. They self destructed which is as it should be. The legend lives on. This groups that recorded (1), that's ONE lp, lives as the quintessential punk rock band. The Ramones were better, so were thousands ( yes literally thousands of others). The Sex Pistols brought Punk off the back pages, out of the shadows. They brought it "in your face" and they could not be ignored. The talent wasn't really the main thing, they weren't that good. But they were the right group at the right time to make sure Punk rock would never be ignored, forgotten or unheard. They were the Nirvana of their time.

    In case you don't understand....that's a YES as in a
    "YES."
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from mrmojo1120. Show mrmojo1120's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    They had some good songs,but Cobain's death turned them into a legendary group and I'm not sure it's totally deserved,at least in my eyes.In some cases it seems like when a singer dies young,the young people embrace the singer or band.With Nirvana,maybe it's because they identify with Cobain's sadness and angst because they have those feeling as well.How legendary would Nirvana have been if Cobain lived and the band evolved as most bands do?Would they have stayed together and made music or seperated into other bands and projects?Would they just be a pretty good band that's become a footnote of the 90's like Pearl Jam who's still playing ,but nowhere near the influence they were 15-20 years ago? 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    In Response to Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?:
    [QUOTE]Yoga, you asked did they change the face of alternative rock? What is alternative rock but a genre? Couldn't we just ask did they influence pop/rock music in general? That's why I brought it up again.
    Posted by devildavid[/QUOTE]

    Oops.   Embarassed   Okay, change is slow, but I am working on it ... :)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from devildavid. Show devildavid's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    But to get back on topic, I see Nirvana as a maybe a crossover band, one that popularized a certain style of music. For every new sound that rock produces, one band seems to break that sound out to a wider audience. Nirvana may be that band for that particular brand of rock that came out of the Pacific Northwest. And in doing so, they changed what is popularly accepted in the already broad spectrum of rock/pop music. Or some might say, they watered down the sound that the (always) small group of original fans of any style want to claim ownership of, and want to jealously guard from mainstream acceptance.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    I had a great, eloquent response, but BDC f**Kwads are censoring it, and I don't know why, because their software bloes chunks and won't say which word they don't like.

    Sorry, folks...

    (it was good too...gradeA rock critic-type pablum...)

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from yogafriend. Show yogafriend's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    In Response to Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?:
    [QUOTE]I had a great, eloquent response, but BDC f**Kwads are censoring it, and I don't know why, because their software bloes chunks and won't say which word they don't like. Sorry, folks... (it was good too...gradeA rock critic-type pablum...)
    Posted by MattyScornD[/QUOTE]
    Freaking annoying.  I hope you copied and pasted it to a doc or somethin -- this happened to me last week and the next day I spat my little essay back into the comment box and it flew right in and posted (just as it should have the first time).  Try again tomorrow if you have the patience ...  
     
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    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    In Response to Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be? : Freaking annoying.  I hope you copied and pasted it to a doc or somethin -- this happened to me last week and the next day I spat my little essay back into the comment box and it flew right in and posted (just as it should have the first time).  Try again tomorrow if you have the patience ...  
    Posted by yogafriend[/QUOTE]

    Thanks, yoga.  I shall do that.

    In short, it has to do with nirvana being beatles-esque pop in disguise.

    Makes more sense in long form, I assure you....
     
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    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    In Response to Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?:
    [QUOTE]It's not so much that the "mystique" around Kurt Cobain is overdone, it's not so much that Nirvana may be over-rated in terms of their being better known them some of their contemporaries. It would be a slam dunk if they s*cked...but they didn't. Nirvana led the parade of a growing number of harder rock groups bouncing the techno, hip hop, pop and rap garbage aside ( briefly , anyway and for that alone , I love them). 

    In case you don't understand....that's a YES as in a "YES."
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]

    Nice.  Had no idea you were such a Nirvana fan, Zilla.   What you said is my overall impression.  Great band, but also, impeccable timing.   As far as really "feelin it" -- that's always going to be personal -- but I also find their angst-ridden lyrics as true as any other, even if there is also truth that there are fans out there who want to dissect every verse, every line, every word, until there is nothing left to dissect.  Call me superficial (only kidding ...), but I never delved that deep.   Your post was validating.

    Oh, Pearl Jam's a footnote, mrmojo?  Okay. I'm beginning to think that lasting 20 years (and counting) is a pretty darn good life span in RnR, even if the band is not coming up with innovative material at a rapidfire pace.   But ... I was late to the PJ party, and that's part of the reason, too.  :D   (and see "PJ20" -- it was very well done).  


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from phsmith8. Show phsmith8's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    I think certain "genres" aren't even really genres at all...sort of like catchalls for things that are distinctly different from the norm, yet clearly bear a resemblance of sorts.  Alternative Rock became a hugely popular phrase in the 90s, because the sort of music that produced many hugely successful bands and countless "one-hit-wonders" was just that, an alternative to the type of rock music that everyone had come to accept as defining the genre.  IMHO, it's the same thing as saying "indie" because both of those terms don't describe anything at all about the music it is labelling, yet people know what it means when they hear it.

    As for Nirvana, well, I was at the perfect age to be completely captivated by Nirvana.  Aside from The Beatles, Nirvana/Green Day were my one two punch back then.  I listened to the radio constantly, and WBRU fed me all of the alt-rock that I wanted.  I still remember hearing them, and realizing the similarities and differences to what had come before.  It was heavier music to an extent, but it was the emotional depth that really made it "heavy."  I think it made it a lot easier for people to really bear their souls, and let it bleed through into the music itself.

    Grohl made that band, though, and he is one of the more talented all around musicians out there.  If you have any doubts, see Foo Fighters live.  Sure, Nirvana has been glorified by the untimely death of Kurt, and that's only natural.  The "what ifs" will never be answered.  It's the same thing that happened to Sublime when Bradley OD'd. 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    I think Zilla hit it on the head and Matty's point of Beatlesque is on the mark.

    For the sake of history, yes, Nirvana had a major impact on the scene. Again, like so many bands in the 80's MTV & other video outlets were an extreme help.
    Cobain did write some intense lyrics and they understood the power of the "song". And once you have the concept, you can cross-over which is exactly what they did. They are my least favorite of the core 4 Seattle bands with AIC being number 1. But they were a very good band and Nevermind is an excellent album. Smells like Teen Spirit will probably remain at the top of the 90's greatest songs for quite awhile.

    As to the original question, the whole idea behind "Alternative" is music that is not playing on the radio. Since radio died years ago, I am not sure if you even have alternative music anymore. It may very well be an extinct genre.

    I will give them their due, but overall, I think they were highly over-rated. And on the plus side, in some sick, morbid way, Cobain's death led to the Foo Fighter's and I love that band.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from ZILLAGOD. Show ZILLAGOD's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    Anybody recall the Nirvana song covered by Sinnead O'Connor?

    "All Apologies"

    Seemingly simple lyrics , yet the song is one of a tortured soul. A person who feels he must "apologize" for being what he is.

    'What else should I write?

    I don't have the right.

    What else should I be?

    all apologies.'

    Sinnead sings this one as if it were her own. And both deliver it brilliantly.

    This song always makes me sad. I know lots of sad songs but this one always hits a nerve.

    The "angst" in Cobain's music is so real , so geniune. Not like the jingles written by Barry Manilow. If you don't feel pain is these songs, you have no feelings.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from phsmith8. Show phsmith8's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    Lithium was always my favorite song, musically and lyrically by Nirvana

    I'm so happy, because today I found my friends/

    they're in my head/

    I'm so ugly, but that's okay 'cause so are you/

    we've broke our mirrors/

    the bassline walks around nicely, and the quick chord changes are awesome.  8 quick chord changes in the line, 7 different chords used.

    and of course the brilliant chorus "yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...yeahhhhhhhhh"


    did courtney love do it, or what? that suicide note gets really sketchy really quickly...

    I remember Thom Yorke one time at a RH show said he was at a Hard Rock Cafe and they had one of Cobain's jackets or something, and he was disgusted.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from leafswin27. Show leafswin27's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    Count me in as a Nirvana fan. Absolutely loved Bleach. Then came the Teen Spirit craze. Didn't like Nevermind as it seemed very overplayed. Years later I realized how good an album that truly was.. As far as influential who knows.. I know Cobain talked about his love for the Pixies and Husker Du.. who I feel were more influential than ever given credit for.For me Nirvana will always hold a place in music history. As far as what was called grunge at the time they were my faves. (nver been a fan of Alice in Chains or Pearl Jam msyelf)..
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hfxsoxnut. Show Hfxsoxnut's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    In Response to Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?:
    [QUOTE]Count me in as a Nirvana fan. Absolutely loved Bleach. Then came the Teen Spirit craze. Didn't like Nevermind as it seemed very overplayed. Years later I realized how good an album that truly was.. As far as influential who knows.. I know Cobain talked about his love for the Pixies and Husker Du.. who I feel were more influential than ever given credit for.For me Nirvana will always hold a place in music history. As far as what was called grunge at the time they were my faves. (nver been a fan of Alice in Chains or Pearl Jam msyelf)..
    Posted by leafswin27[/QUOTE]

    I don't know any of Husker Du's music but I keep hearing about them.  One band I really caught onto for a while was Soul Asylum.  I thought the Grave Dancers Union album was excellent, and I also liked some of their other albums.  I have read that they were influenced by Husker Du. 
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    Thanks for the tip, WDYWN.  Here it is...from yesterday:


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    And Part 2 (please excuse the grammar check):


     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from JM0N. Show JM0N's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    They were a talented band. However, they weren't epic in the manner in which people make them out to be. I believe that Cobain's death has enhanced their reputation, talents, legacy and how people perceive them. It is a classic case of a band who was made into a huge deal because of the passing of their enigmatic/mercurial/troubled frontman.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    Nevermind was a smash hit several times over before kurt's passing, and (I believe) In Utero debuted at #1.  If they had never recorded another album (or perhaps broke up in the aftermath like some bands have after such outsized success), their legacy would still have endured.

    As fans, it's very tough to divorce the celebrity image from the creative one...a challenge that kurt seemed either unwilling or unable to master.

    And for all the talk about how inspiring and influential he was, the tragedy is in wondering how much more he could have contributed if he had survived.

    Although I have no way of knowing, I'll wager that Dave Grohl would trade all his ensuing success with the Foo Fighters for a chance to once again record with his late band leader/friend.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from phsmith8. Show phsmith8's posts

    Re: Nirvana: yes, no, meh-be?

    I agree to some extent about the Beatles thing.  I think Kurt had an incredible knack for melody, especially over the brooding music he created.  I think "Dumb" is the most beatle-esque, for sure.  And even that sounds like John at his most depressed.

    I've been thinking about the More Than a Feeling rip allegations, and I don't really agree.  The only thing that is really similar is the strumming of the opening chords, but they are different chords entirely...it's a four chord progression, and MTaF's 3rd and 4th chords follow a different pattern entirely than SLTS, but the real difference is that MTaF's chords are entirely major chords, whereas SLTS follows a distinctly minor progression.  That's why it feels so different, and while two of the root notes might be similar, I don't think it's a rip of that whatsoever.

    Also, MTaF only uses that riff for the first half of the chorus, where-as SLTS is riding that the entire song. 

    I have always felt that Kurt made that progression so simple and familiar sounding for the same reasons that he made the lyrics so tongue-in-cheek.
     

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