The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

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    The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    How about a discussion on the Dead and the Allman Brothers?   Have you been a fan of one, both, or neither band? 

    We all seem to agree that it's not a matter of "best" or "better" since that is very subjective.  Both seem to have been groundbreaking and influential.  Both seem to have a loyal following well into the 21st century, still listening to their legacy material with no end in sight.  I've seen members of this forum time and again mention both bands among their favorite band(s) of all time.   As far as real musicianship, what do you think?

    There has also been a considerable number of veiled (and not so veiled) remarks as to the true, raw talent of the Dead, or whether it was more a matter of the drug-induced fan base.   Maybe both?  Did drugs actually contribute more to the ruination (or end) of the original lineup of the Allman Brothers? 

    Thoughts, anyone?  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    Along with The Band, they were/are among the finest progenitors of American roots music ever and musical touchstones for the traditions of live improvisation.

    Can't get enough of either (to be totally, shamelessly honest)...especially the live stuff.  Both groups had their career (and personal) mis-steps at times but inevitably bounced back to greater heights.  It's worth noting that both were all but forgotten at a certain point except by their most devout fans.

    Unfortunately, it can sometimes be hard to separate the music from the culture surrounding them.  The former is to be celebrated; the latter, merely tolerated, IMO.
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    This is a subject that is way above my pay grade, but I will say this, my whole musical experience just hasn't been the same since Garcia died. I loved seeing the Dead live, and though I never really called myself a Deadhead, attending a Grateful Dead concert was still one of the last great musical experiences.

    Yeah drugs may have played a big part of what the Dead/ Allman's were about, but as musicians they were (are) top notch.  Both the Dead and the Allman's musical influence can be heard in so many of today's top bands, most notably My Morning Jacket, Phish, and Iron & Wine.

    The thing that I always loved about both bands, but especially the Dead, was their spontaneity. Seeing them live, you never knew what song was coming next, or whether Garcia would mess up, or if the band would just completely miss on a song. But when they hit, like a perfect "Morning Dew," or Fire on the Mountain,"  it was musical heaven. Same can be said for an amazing "Elizabeth Reed," or "Crossroads."

    I think, for a lot of the older folks, the Dead and the Allmans will always endure because it reminds them of a different time when music was more than just a catchy tag line and some non-existent beat, and for the younger generations just tuning in, It is the quality of the music, and the songs that draw them. 





     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    I sort of "discovered" these bands later on. I was aware of both, but not a huge fan. I spent so much of my younger years listening to Beatles, Deep Purple, Various Prog and Heavy Metal groups , Bowie, Jethro Tull, Bad Company, Airplane, Santana, Kinks, Who, Hendrix, Clapton, Eagles,  Dylan , the Stones ,Talking Heads, Elvis Costello, Graham Parker, Joe Jackson, Devo, Police, Dire Straits,Ted Nugent etc, etc, etc.

    Although always a fan of Lynyrd Skynyrd and other Southern rockers only "Midnight Rider" really caught my ear as being really great. After a replacing all my old vinyl with CD in the early ninties , I started branching out to groups of which I sort of didn't pay alot of attention....I sort of rediscovered: the Dead ,Rush, the Allmans , Nazareth and Uriah Heep among others. And then all the punk/new wave/alternative bands....sheesh!, where do I start with that?

    The problem has always been too much good music, too little time to listen to it all.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jesseyeric. Show jesseyeric's posts

    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    Allman Brothers - as good an American RnR band that there ever was. I cannot even imagine where this band might have gone to if Duane had not died.

    As for the Dead, I was never a fan of theirs. I know only a handful of songs (Truckin) being my favorite. And I really do not have the appetite to try and get to know them at this point. All I do know is that their fan base is as loyal as it gets. Obviously they have made a lot of people happy and that is something I can respect.
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    I'm not a fan of the Dead but I love their song Terrapin Station,

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugRct9pNQYM
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    In Response to Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials:
    [QUOTE]This is a subject that is way above my pay grade, but I will say this, my whole musical experience just hasn't been the same since Garcia died. I loved seeing the Dead live, and though I never really called myself a Deadhead, attending a Grateful Dead concert was still one of the last great musical experiences. Yeah drugs may have played a big part of what the Dead/ Allman's were about, but as musicians they were (are) top notch.  Both the Dead and the Allman's musical influence can be heard in so many of today's top bands, most notably My Morning Jacket, Phish, and Iron & Wine. The thing that I always loved about both bands, but especially the Dead, was their spontaneity. Seeing them live, you never knew what song was coming next, or whether Garcia would mess up, or if the band would just completely miss on a song. But when they hit, like a perfect "Morning Dew," or Fire on the Mountain,"  it was musical heaven. Same can be said for an amazing "Elizabeth Reed," or "Crossroads." I think, for a lot of the older folks, the Dead and the Allmans will always endure because it reminds them of a different time when music was more than just a catchy tag line and some non-existent beat, and for the younger generations just tuning in, It is the quality of the music, and the songs that draw them. 
    Posted by polar123[/QUOTE]Nice testimonial, polar, thank you.  I got to see one concert before Garcia died, and eventhough I was rather "late to the party" by that time (the guy that invited me had seen them hundreds of times, and I'm sure everyone else there could have said the same), I felt lucky that I had the chance to finally see them.   It was a great concert experience. 
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    Never been much of a deadhead. But as far as the Allman Bros. go, I really like In Memory of Elizabeth Reed, Mountain Jam, One Way Out, Statesboro Blues, Pony Boy, Jessica, Ramblin' Man, Whipping Post and You Don't Love Me. Duane also did some classics with The Muscle Shoals Rhythm Section and Delaney and Bonnie and Friends.
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    In Response to Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials:
    [QUOTE]Although always a fan of Lynyrd Skynyrd and other Southern rockers only "Midnight Rider" really caught my ear as being really great. After a replacing all my old vinyl with CD in the early ninties , I started branching out to groups of which I sort of didn't pay alot of attention....I sort of rediscovered: the Dead ,Rush, the Allmans , Nazareth and Uriah Heep among others. And then all the punk/new wave/alternative bands....it all.
    Posted by ZILLAGOD[/QUOTE]Zilla, I'm sure you know this, but after looking up a few facts about The Band's "The Weight", I learned that the band Nazareth got their name from the first line of that song: "I pulled into Nazareth / Was feelin' ' bout half past dead" -- so you see, all of those weird little trivia quizzes are to my benefit, as I pick up RnR facts and tidbits that I can actually recall.  :)
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from AGUY1. Show AGUY1's posts

    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials


    Here's some trivia,

    Robby Robinson had the music to the song "the Weight" but was struggling for lyrics.  He was playing a Martin Guitar and looked at it and it said "Made in Nazareth, PA".  That's where he got the line from.

    Would love to weigh in on this topic but I'm a little busy at the moment.
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    I did not know that. Thanks AGUY!
     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from AGUY1. Show AGUY1's posts

    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    In Response to Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials:
    [QUOTE]I did not know that. Thanks AGUY!
    Posted by jesseyeric[/QUOTE]

    No problem.  I just happen to have the magazine article in my desk where I read that and it says that he was playing a 1927 Martin 000-45 nylon-string model.  It was during their first album "Music from Big Pink".
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    In Response to Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials:
    [QUOTE]I love to mock the Dead,  or more specifically, their hard core fans.  But actually I like much of their music. I saw them about a dozen times in the late 70's through the early 80's.   They were very much hit or miss.  While I loved Jerry's vocals on recordingsk, everytime I saw him live he sucked.  Never cared for Weir's recorded vocals, but he was the best they had live.  Which still isn't saying much. I have two Dead memories that stick out for some strange reason. First, Hartford CT. I can't remember the name of the Arena, maybe it was the Civic Ctr, is that still there?  In any case the Arena was attached to a Shopping Mall.  It was packed with Deadheads of all shapes, sizes, and states of sobriety.  On a bench, in the middle of it all, were a couple of old ladies, who must've been caught out shopping. But they were having a good old time, people watching.  And there I was, watching them howling and pointing at everyone else. The second was while I was in the Army at Ft Hood.  There was a horse track outside of Austin called Manor Downs (pronounced may-ner) where they were playing.  Before the show there was a big sky diving performance.  So for the big finale they were going to go for a record, the longest free fall, and wait as long as possible before opening the chute.  The MC was in full voice.  And some of us, including yours truly,  may have been under the influence of certain recreational herbs.   Plus I am extremely gullible.  At least I used to be.  So off the would-be record setter goes,  the MC "look at him", "we're getting closer", "closer!".   Then, splat!   Yes, of course it was a dummy, but it took a couple of minutes for that to sink in.  Not funny. Not for that environment.  The actual show was pretty good.  Not everyday you see a bunch of wanna-be cowboys hooting and hollering at a Dead show, but there you were. And of course they pulled out all their Western numbers for this one. I could go on in a similar vein with the Allmans.  Started in the 70's, and actually I just caught them at Foxwoods a couple of months ago.  Great, but you know, I've heard it all before so many times I was a little bored.
    Posted by SlimPickensIII[/QUOTE]

    Great stories, slim.  Thanks for sharing!

    I, too, was born a bit too late to catch more than just a couple dozen shows (a "few" in deadhead terms).  Again, for me, it's always been about the music, and by all indications, they felt the same way...even when drugs were involved, the music came first.  I thought there was a certain integrity to it, like you can believe in a lot of crazy things so why not believe in the power of music to change things, even slightly, for the better...?? 

    That philosophy is still with me to this day, and with certain variances, it's how I live my life and keep my peace of mind.  I don't need patchouli and dreds and tie-dye to have ideals, but the music helps.
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    Slim, I'm absolutely howling over those stories!   Sometimes "the experience" (that includes people-watching) is worth the price of admission, just as much as listening to the music at a concert.  That just had to have been the case for the Dead, something impossible to replicate.  It's hard not to poke a little fun at people who live in the past, but I've always assumed the barbs you throw at Dead fans are in jest (for the most part).  :D    
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    In Response to Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials : Zilla, I'm sure you know this, but after looking up a few facts about The Band's "The Weight", I learned that the band Nazareth got their name from the first line of that song: "I pulled into Nazareth / Was feelin' ' bout half past dead" -- so you see, all of those weird little trivia quizzes are to my benefit, as I pick up RnR facts and tidbits that I can actually recall.  :)
    Posted by yogafriend[/QUOTE]

    Actually I wasn't aware of that piece of trivia. 

    I always thought Nazareth was a reference to "Jesus of Nazareth." The group became popular around the time that "Jesus Christ, Supertsar"  was out....I never researched the groups name choice.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from AGUY1. Show AGUY1's posts

    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    I’m a pretty big fan.  Had seen them about 18 times or so.  I pretty much stopped going to shows when they started playing stadiums, at that point, they just seem to be getting more and more sloppy. 

    I saw Further a few times last year and while it’s not the Dead, it’s a great band to see if you like their music.  About the best Dead “cover” band you could pay to see.

     For casual listeners, I’d like to point out an album I think is overlooked.  Bob Weir’s solo album “Ace”.  Even though it’s a “solo” album, the entire line up on the album (minus Pigpen) is the Grateful Dead.  The only other exception is a different bass player on the opening track.  The reason I’m pointing this out is because just about all the songs on the album if not all became regularly played songs at the shows and I think many people don’t realize that’s where the studio versions of these songs come from.  IMO this is probably the Dead’s best studio effort and worth checking out if you are interested in their music.
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    In Response to Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials:
    [QUOTE] Drunks. Fights.  Completely unlike any Dead Show I had ever been to.   I remember thinking "what is this J Geils?" I was already phasing big stadium shows out of my life anyway, but that really accelarated the process.
    Posted by SlimPickensIII[/QUOTE] J Geils attracts that sort of crowd?  Really?
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    I love the Allman Brothers. I was never a Dead fan. Ironically it was the Allman's the Dead and the Band who were at the Watkins Glen concert in the summer of 1973. OK Deadheads, don't be offended. What does one deadhead say to the other after the acid wears out?????  "This group stinks" Just having fun. The Allman Bros. are one of my favorite 4 or 5 groups all time. A little bias there. I know a few people who went to Watkins Glen.
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    What did one deadhead say to the other when they ran out of weed?

    "This music sucks".

    I love the Dead.  I'm less fond of their music after '85.  The summer of 82 was exceptional.  1976 at the Beacon Theater was outstanding, particularly June 15 show - St. Stephen -- /> Not Fadeaway-->Stell Blue.  They played Sugar Magnolia followed by Scarlett Begonias and then finished Sugar Magnolia.  Had a clean soundboard from the show.  Very tasty.

    The Not Fadeway was great.
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    Not a big fan of both them but don't hate them either.

    I ike some of theirs songs.

    The Dead -- Touch of Gray; Trucking.

    Allman -- Melissa, Midnight Rider.

    Probably a few others for both bands.
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    So I was one of those people who went to Watkin's Glen. To be honest, I really went to see the Band and the Allman Brothers. I liked the Dead alright, but wasn't a big fan. Anyway, the Dead opened with like a 3 hour set that blew me away. They were much better live than on vinyl. The Band and Allman Brothers were great also, of course.
    Unfortunatly, I kind of fell asleep, (ok passed out) before the the final jam with all 3 bands. What can i say, it was a long hot day, and lots of substances. What I remember was fantastic.
     
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    Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials

    In Response to Re: The Grateful Dead / The Allman Brothers Band: The Essentials:
    [QUOTE]So I was one of those people who went to Watkin's Glen. To be honest, I really went to see the Band and the Allman Brothers. I liked the Dead alright, but wasn't a big fan. Anyway, the Dead opened with like a 3 hour set that blew me away. They were much better live than on vinyl. The Band and Allman Brothers were great also, of course. Unfortunatly, I kind of fell asleep, (ok passed out) before the the final jam with all 3 bands. What can i say, it was a long hot day, and lots of substances. What I remember was fantastic.
    Posted by celts55[/QUOTE]
    Sounds epic. 
    Great story.  Thanks for sharing the memories that are still intact.   :)
     

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