Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from topaz978. Show topaz978's posts

    Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    Huh, illegal grilling as opposed to sprinklers and a fire department who could find a hydrant. Seems like the grilling was not truely against the law. The fire department was not up to code though. There is no state law against grilling. City ordinance is not really a law violation but a code violation, a civil charge.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoneToTheDogs39. Show GoneToTheDogs39's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    Often when you rent an apartment it will say right on the lease you sign,  no outdoor or indoor grilling allowed on property, porches,  patios, etc. for obvious reasons.  People disregard these rules even though they agreed to them in writing.  Sometimes they will let you grill in the yard, but I think it has to be a significant distance away from the dwelling or nearby homes.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    I think you are engaging in semantics here. The bottom line is the grill was not supposed to be used..whether it was a local regulation, a state regulation or simply the rules of the apartment complex. Once again..someone thought the rules didn't apply to them and now we have a bunch of innocent people..who did follow the rules...out of their homes with most of their possessions gone. This is why most communities ban second floor grills.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from topaz978. Show topaz978's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    Nicely put but. What architectual feature is a Patio. By definition it is a ground floor exterior space. A porch, deck, or balcony is a raised structure above ground. I get your point but they ban electric space heaters too and vast numbers of apartment fires are caused by these dangerous appliances, more so than grills. And a violation of a lease is not illegal. Even violateing some city/town ordinances is not a law violation. Its technical but many towns did not ask for state permission for some ordinances and those are routinely thrown out of court.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from GoneToTheDogs39. Show GoneToTheDogs39's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    It says on the directions for space heaters to never leave them on unattended,  keep away from curtains, blankets, clutter.  People disregard these warnings too, leave them on while they're sleeping, not home etc.   Why would anyone in their right mind have a barbecue in or on any part of a multi-dwelling?    If anyone is harmed due to their negligence,  you better believe there will be legal repercussions.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheDope. Show TheDope's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    The huge problem here is the common attic (sometimes known as a common cockloft).  There were no architectural firestops from one end of the building to the other.  Lucky no one was killed.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from topaz978. Show topaz978's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    I had mostly issues with the statements in the initial news report. Many people believe things are law that are not so. The reporter included. It is sloppy work. It is also sloppy work not to make reference to the degree of threat. Mostly a single coal will not be a house burner. But a runaway grease fire on a gas grill might. For people who do not clean the gas grill they do not realize how hot and fast a grease fire can be. Still the home heaters in winter are the deadliest things out there.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from topaz978. Show topaz978's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!:
    [QUOTE]It says on the directions for space heaters to never leave them on unattended,  keep away from curtains, blankets, clutter.  People disregard these warnings too, leave them on while they're sleeping, not home etc.   Why would anyone in their right mind have a barbecue in or on any part of a multi-dwelling?    If anyone is harmed due to their negligence,  you better believe there will be legal repercussions.
    Posted by Robin39[/QUOTE]

    So if I put a label on a gun stateing that you are not to point it at people or anything that might die from its discharge what exactly does that mean? A heater is intended to heat. People want heat even when sleeping. And they do not want to come home to a cold house. The label is meaningless. It is not negligence. As several court cases have proved. A device sold for a purpose cannot have signifigant statements against its normal use. Otherwise the manufacturer is liable for a dangerous device. Do you really want a car that has a 45 page manual about all the things you cannot do with the car like backing up over your toddler?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Terri15. Show Terri15's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    It is just common sense to realize that if you are using a charcoal grill on a very small balcony is not particularly safe.  The balcony abuts against the far wall of the living room and, as other people have already said, all it takes is one small spark to jump from the grill into the area where the door is open and, bingo, there you have the beginning of a fire!  With all of these new condos & apartment buildings, you usually have 12 units in each building and when one goes up without any firestops, the entire building goes up.  It is unrealistic to think that using even a small grill in a crowded area is safe. I have an outside propane grill in the same type complex but I use it about 10 feet away from the building & have a fire extinguisher next to the grill if something happens.   They are very lucky that it was contained to 1 building & didn't jump to buildings on both sides. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    Topaz..okay..I see what you are getting at. The merits of grilling on the deck of a multi unit property aside...I agree that the media will sensationalize as much as possible.
    For the record..I always thought the risk of grilling with charcoal was a lot less than a gas grill.
    My town has an ordinance that gas grills must be a certain number of feet from the house ( either 10 or 15..I don't remember). A friend of mine set his house on fire a few years ago by using a gas grill on his deck.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from liamaidan. Show liamaidan's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!:
    [QUOTE]Nicely put but. What architectual feature is a Patio. By definition it is a ground floor exterior space. A porch, deck, or balcony is a raised structure above ground. I get your point but they ban electric space heaters too and vast numbers of apartment fires are caused by these dangerous appliances, more so than grills. And a violation of a lease is not illegal. Even violateing some city/town ordinances is not a law violation. Its technical but many towns did not ask for state permission for some ordinances and those are routinely thrown out of court.
    Posted by topaz978[/QUOTE]

    topaz978, what are your qualifications to make this judgement? Your misspellings and poor grammer undermine your credibility. 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from liamaidan. Show liamaidan's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    In Response to Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!:
    [QUOTE]Huh, illegal grilling as opposed to sprinklers and a fire department who could find a hydrant. Seems like the grilling was not truely against the law. The fire department was not up to code though. There is no state law against grilling. City ordinance is not really a law violation but a code violation, a civil charge.
    Posted by topaz978[/QUOTE]

    http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dfs/osfm/cmr/cmr_secured/527006.pdf

    This regulation forbids propane grills above the first floor and has the force of law.
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting! : How'd that happen? I suppose there's a risk of an uncontained grease fire from a really unclean grill  (ie, not a brief flare-up inside the grill)....or maybe a complete freak accident (I dunno..cylinder exploding for some reason)... I have trouble imagining what could go wrong.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]


    A comedy of errors..and one I like to remind him of once in a while. According to my friend..it all started because he was cooking sausages...and decided to butterfly them.( and had not parboiled them)..somehow all the grease dripping created flames that got a little out of control and wound up exploding the gas tank underneath. The fact that he left it unattended..combined with the fact that the grease cup was overflowing I guess both contributed. The gas grill was located on his deck..right near the outside wall of his house...caused quite a bit of damage..and he had a lot of questions to answer between the fire and police departments.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from topaz978. Show topaz978's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting! : http://www.mass.gov/Eeops/docs/dfs/osfm/cmr/cmr_secured/527006.pdf This regulation forbids propane grills above the first floor and has the force of law.
    Posted by liamaidan[/QUOTE]


    Under law unless passed by the state legislature it has the force of a PARKING TICKET. SO. Why didn't the fire department give it the go they should have. Why don't the police sit outside houses and bring people in for grills and space heaters, which are similarly prohibited.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from topaz978. Show topaz978's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting! : topaz978, what are your qualifications to make this judgement? Your misspellings and poor grammer undermine your credibility. 
    Posted by liamaidan[/QUOTE]


    If you say so. I am just tired from correcting morons. Sorry.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from liamaidan. Show liamaidan's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting! : Under law unless passed by the state legislature it has the force of a PARKING TICKET. SO. Why didn't the fire department give it the go they should have. Why don't the police sit outside houses and bring people in for grills and space heaters, which are similarly prohibited.
    Posted by topaz978[/QUOTE]

    Not necessarily. The legislature can grant agencies the right to draft regulations that have the force of law.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from liamaidan. Show liamaidan's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!:
    [QUOTE]Well, regulations can have the force of law. But I think the Apprendi case & progeny might have some bearing on whether the legislature could delegate to an executive agency the authority to create criminal offenses, as opposed to civil fines. (Key: "Create" rather than "enforce")
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    I agree. The point I wanted to make is that regradless of the severity of the penalty, these are still laws. A case can be made, especially in a situation like this, where violation of the regulation may provide a basis for a criminal prosecution, such as for manslaughter (reckless disregard).
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from liamaidan. Show liamaidan's posts

    Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!

    In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting!:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Illegal patio grilling in Quincy? Bad reporting! : Oh ok. Yes. The homicide statutes were passed by the legislature. Just wanted to note that I doubt an executive agency could promulgate regulatoins creating a criminal offense. It may not be settled, but I think that would be constitutionally problematic.
    Posted by WhatDoYouWantNow[/QUOTE]

    You raise a great point. I think that some EPA regulations carry criminal penalties, but I am not sure.
     

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