15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    How sad. It illustrates the ineffectiveness of gun laws!

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/student-participated-inauguration-festivities-shot-dead-article-1.1251027?localLinksEnabled=false

     

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    I have seen this statement before in the right wing blogosphere: that Chicago has the "strictest gun laws".  But is it true?  How can a city have significantly different local laws from the state in which it is located?

    And secondly: even if the city did have stricter laws, why would it matter if the surrounding areas (and the country overall) have more permissive laws?  Guns are easy to move...

    I guess you are half right: laws on gun control are ineffective... if they are just local in nature.  Only a national approach has a real chance of reducing gun violence.  And there is lots of factual evidence to support that theory.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from pelosireturns. Show pelosireturns's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    democratsdoe democrats will want to ban and confiscate all weapons

     
  5. This post has been removed.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to pelosireturns' comment:

    democratsdoe democrats will want to ban and confiscate all weapons



    Huh?  Is that a paranoid or drunken ramble?  Makes as much sense either way.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    LOL.


    Notice how tvoter runs away from the problem: His original post is nonsense.

    Not sure why he thinks coughing over it with a lame insult would accomplish anything, but hey.

     



    Not running just not letting you try to skew the subject.

     

    What do you consider a "uniform nation wide gun law that makes sense"

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    What do you consider a "uniform nation wide gun law that makes sense"   [QUOTE]

    Gee, I dunno. Should I really bother to type it out again. It's not like you responded to about 50 of my posts stating EXACTLY what you are asking of me: assault weapon/high capacity magazine/military armor ban. Focus on mental health and background checks. Etc.




    MIlitary armor ban does what to stop gun violance? How many gun crimes involve military armor?

    assault weapons gun deaths are a small fraction of gun violence.

    high capacity magazines; ok, but, again very few acts of gun violence include high capacity magazines.

    There should be no bans unless it is determined that it will have a realistic chance of reducing overall gun violence not a knee jerk reaction.

    focus on mental health I absolutely agree with; I would add people on certain perscription drugs (mental illness, depression, anxiety meds etc) should have to go through further scrutiny.

    additional back ground check without mental health and prescription info information being available is futile.

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    What do you consider a "uniform nation wide gun law that makes sense"   [QUOTE]

    Gee, I dunno. Should I really bother to type it out again. It's not like you responded to about 50 of my posts stating EXACTLY what you are asking of me: assault weapon/high capacity magazine/military armor ban. Focus on mental health and background checks. Etc.

     




    MIlitary armor ban does what to stop gun violance? How many gun crimes involve military armor?

     

    assault weapons gun deaths are a small fraction of gun violence.

    high capacity magazines; ok, but, again very few acts of gun violence include high capacity magazines.

    There should be no bans unless it is determined that it will have a realistic chance of reducing overall gun violence not a knee jerk reaction.

    focus on mental health I absolutely agree with; I would add people on certain perscription drugs (mental illness, depression, anxiety meds etc) should have to go through further scrutiny.

    additional back ground check without mental health and prescription info information being available is futile.

     



    You are being obtuse.  If you look at other industrial countries with a true national approach to gun control you see much less gun violence.  That's a fairly obvious connection that you choose to ignore.  Instead you blather away about Chicago as if one city's laws can limit gun violence and without even proving it has more restrictive laws in the first place.  Are you purposely obscuring the gun control question?  Sure seems that way.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:



    You are being obtuse.  If you look at other industrial countries with a true national approach to gun control you see much less gun violence.  That's a fairly obvious connection that you choose to ignore.  Instead you blather away about Chicago as if one city's laws can limit gun violence and without even proving it has more restrictive laws in the first place.  Are you purposely obscuring the gun control question?  Sure seems that way.




    We are the USA not other countries and we have a constitution with a 2nd ammendment.

    So, realistic approaches are what is being discussed.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    Aurora, Illinois is a city with the same exact gun laws as Chicago.

    Last year, there were no gun deaths in Aurora.

    Therefore, strict gun laws saved lives.

     

    "Correlation without causation" will harken the death of ye, I swear.

     

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:


    "MIlitary armor ban does what to stop gun violance? How many gun crimes involve military armor?"

    The theatre shooter suited up. Even if someone had a gun they couldn't have stopped him without getting extremely lucky in the dark.

    Bank robbers are known to use armor if they plan to or are willing to get in a shootout.

    There is no real reason a civilian needs it.

     

    "assault weapons gun deaths are a small fraction of gun violence."

    That does not strike me as a reason to not ban them. If that small fraction disappears, why not? The fact that a proposal does not entirely solve a problem is not a reason to reject the proposal. Otherwise we shouldn't do anything about any problem.

    Assault weapons are designed to put a lot of lead out on the field in a short amount of time. They are cumbersome and hence ineffective in the vast majority of rapidly evolving self-defense situations.

    There is no civilian need for them.

    "high capacity magazines"


    Again.

     

    "There should be no bans unless it is determined that it will have a realistic chance of reducing overall gun violence not a knee jerk reaction."

    They do have a realistic chance of reducing various parts of gun violence. Calling it a "knee jerk" reaction doesn't make it a knee jerk reaciton. It just means you've decided in advance not to think about it. 



    assault weapons like the AR-15 puts one relatively small round in the air at a time and less than say a glock 40 or many other handguns and certainly rifles.
    Fully automatic weapons do put alot of lead in the field but, have been outlawed for decades!

    Theh=theater shooter and the guys that robbed the bank in armor in LA a couple decades ago ok. Still makes no sense to outlaw it for all law abiding citizens who may be enthusiasts or collectors. Just saying "civilians have no use for them" doesnt mean they should be outlawed.

    The fatcthat they are a small fraction of violence is a very good reason not to outlaw them to everyone!

    Your reasoning sounds like kneejerk reaction and not well thought out or realistic towards the stated goal.

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:

    Well that settles it, another child dies so that means all gun laws are ineffective and we should just lift any and all restrictions for anyone to own any weapon.

    Yep, that's the ticket.



    Therefore, we should disarm all law abiding citizens.

    do you see the problem here with you silly argument?

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    Your reasoning sounds like kneejerk reaction


    Your automatic "no" to any and all focus on guns or ammo doesn't?



    Alright I didnt say NO. I just gave my view. I do not think that millions of Americans who may be enthusiast or collectors should have their ability to collect or own be infringed upon unless it will have a definitive impact for the greater good.

    The only one that may have a definitive impact is finding a way to add mental illness and medications ofr mental illness or disorders to background checks nationwide

     

     
  17. This post has been removed.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    "Alright I didnt say NO. I just gave my view. I do not think that millions of Americans who may be enthusiast or collectors should have their ability to collect or own be infringed upon unless it will have a definitive impact for the greater good."

    Can you objectively define "definitive impact"? Is there some line in the sand in terms of numbers of deaths averted that suddenly makes it ok? If so how did you choose to draw it in one place or another.

    You keep asking why a lack of a need to own things I suggest banning matters. It matters because my analysis is to balance the need for the item against the probility of reduced deaths.

    I see a probability of reduced deaths per incident if semi-automatic weapons (which the military has auto-capable, but almost never actually uses in auto-mode) and high capacity magazines are banned: In combination, they put out a lot more bullets in the same amount of time as someone whose got to lug around ten handguns just to have the same amount of bullets available.

    Suggestions like that also aren't about preventing shooting incidents because we all agree that's rather an impossible thing to do, at least with a finite amount of people and money to devote to the issue. 




     Your use of "need" is not defined. Need is a relative things and you obviously do not share it.

    I can accept limiting high capacity magazines as I have said many times. I do not think it will have an impact but, I am not against it.

    Banning a gun that looks bad is just stupid. The AR-15 is just a small caliber rifle.

    A 30-06, 308 or many others are much more lethal similar in size and fire just as fast but, look like a normal rifle not like a machine gun.

    Its the equivalent of saying we are going to outlaw all thse mean military looking guns even though they are not as lethal as others.

     

     
  19. This post has been removed.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    All the gun laws in the world isn't going to stop gun violence. Wake the fcuk up!



    Stop no. Limit yes.  Basic logical connection for all awake people.  

    When I started as a lawyer the standard for being under the influence was .15, then it was changed to .10 and now it is at .08.  A problem with drunk driving was addressed and its impact limited, not eliminated for sure, but limited.  We can do the same with the danger guns present.  Limit their impact.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    All the gun laws in the world isn't going to stop gun violence. Wake the fcuk up!

    Stop no. Limit yes.  Basic logical connection for all awake people.  

    When I started as a lawyer the standard for being under the influence was .15, then it was changed to .10 and now it is at .08.  A problem with drunk driving was addressed and its impact limited, not eliminated for sure, but limited.  We can do the same with the danger guns present.  Limit their impact.



    The black market for guns is wide open now if, you outlaw anything it just becomes a hot seller on the BM!

    With open borders to criminal activity it's is frivolous and ignorant to think stopping honest law abiding citizens from selling and buying guns will stop the sell and purchase of guns to and from criminals!!

    Seriously, it's like saying if we make alcohol illegal it will slow peoples drinking. How did prohibition work out???

     
  22. This post has been removed.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

     

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    All the gun laws in the world isn't going to stop gun violence. Wake the fcuk up!

    Stop no. Limit yes.  Basic logical connection for all awake people.  

    When I started as a lawyer the standard for being under the influence was .15, then it was changed to .10 and now it is at .08.  A problem with drunk driving was addressed and its impact limited, not eliminated for sure, but limited.  We can do the same with the danger guns present.  Limit their impact.

     



    The black market for guns is wide open now if, you outlaw anything it just becomes a hot seller on the BM!

     

    With open borders to criminal activity it's is frivolous and ignorant to think stopping honest law abiding citizens from selling and buying guns will stop the sell and purchase of guns to and from criminals!!

    Seriously, it's like saying if we make alcohol illegal it will slow peoples drinking. How did prohibition work out???



    Your passive response to this dangerous situation is immoral.  Other countries have more stringent laws and have a safer society as a result. Their black markets are not "wide open".  Why should we accept this level of gun violence without at least trying to address the problem?  We like guns better than people?

    And we do limit the kind of alcohol you can drink and the use and abuse of alcohol in certain situations based on safety concerns.  And we are safer for it.

     
  24. This post has been removed.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: 15 yr old student that performed at Obama's inauguration shot dead in city with strictest gun laws!

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

    In response to Reubenhop's comment:

     

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:

     

    All the gun laws in the world isn't going to stop gun violence. Wake the fcuk up!

     



    Stop no. Limit yes.  Basic logical connection for all awake people.  

     

    When I started as a lawyer the standard for being under the influence was .15, then it was changed to .10 and now it is at .08.  A problem with drunk driving was addressed and its impact limited, not eliminated for sure, but limited.  We can do the same with the danger guns present.  Limit their impact.

     



    Apples and oranges. Criminals will still obtain guns illegally no matter how many gun laws we ADD.

     

    People who haven't been diagnosed with mental issues and have never been arrested will still be able to obtain guns and then subsequently snap and cause mass destruction like they have in the past.

    People will still be stupid enough to not lock up their weapons leaving them for nutjobs like the Sandy Hook nut to take and use.

    Assault weapons were banned for 10 years...they were still used during those 10 years for mass shootings. MA and CA ban assault weapons....they still have been used for mass shootings in both states.

    CA has some of the strictest gun laws in the country...there have been nine mass shootings there.

     



    Passive response to a deadly problem. Immoral.  How many killings have to take place before we all refuse to accept killings as part of our "cultural reality"?  Twenty little kids did it for me.  

     

Share