American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    Recently, Vladimir Putin wrote an OP Ed piece for the Times which was vastly commented on in this forum. In fact, more than one poster complimented Mr. Putin for his "show of leadership" on the Syria issue. Comments were made that..at least Mr. Putin was demonstrating strong leadership in the face of such weak leadership offered by our own leaders, specifically President Obama. Anyhow..I think most get my drift.


    Fast forward to today...and another commentary by Russia on the quality and effectiveness of US leadership. This time, in the form of a Tweet from Alexey Pushkov, the chairman of the Russian Foreign affairs committee. The Tweet, translated, states "A new shooting at the Washington Navy Yard. One shooter and 7 bodies.No one is surprised anymore. A vivid confirmation of "American Exceptionalism".


    He also tweeted the following: "The USA should part with the notion of American Exceptionalism. It contradicts the principals of equal rights and smells of politcal racism".


    So...the question for the class tonight is ..What say you who were praising the Russians for their strong leadership in the face of crisis...? Is Mr. Puchokov correct in this case? Or..do we cherrypick when a leadership philosophy is right based on how it fits with our view of American Exceptionalism. The number of mass shooting and deaths and injury by gun violence is on the rise. Is that a crisis?

    Like those who agreed with Mr. Putin, I contend that Mr. Pushkov is right.  To me..the most telling statement in his two controversial tweets is "No one is surprised anymore".  To me..the entire thing can be summed up in those 5 words.

    As a country..and as a society..we need to take a good long look in the mirror and in our souls. If we can't even keep our military personnel safe from gun violence in this country , how in God's green earth can we expect to keep our school children safe?  Even as our country is shying away from a potential military conflict in Syria...we have lost the war in our own borders. The gun lobbies control our laws, our lawmakers and our thought in regards to guns and we let it happen. Now, it seems that we are powerless to stop it.

    Mr. Pushkov has stated in black and white what most of the industrialized world feels. When we cannot control a gun industry that is out of control, when we sacrifice countless lives to gun violence, including those of our heroes, children, and ordinary people, we have no right to preach American Exceptionalism.  Mr. Pushkov has a point when he implies that American Exceptionalism exists only in the minds of misled politicians. We are not exceptional to the rest of the world. How can we be? We have our heads in the sand pretending that there is no crisis of gun violence in this country.

    I don't harbor any illusion that there will be any serious conversations about changing the way we worship guns. If it didn't happen when 20 schoolchildren got shot down in cold blood a few weeks before Christmas.. it's not going to happen now.

    One place to start would be for the NRA and the gun lobby to come out and state that yesterday's shooter should not have had a gun, or a permit to carry. If they can't even agree to that..then we as Americans have lost.

     
  2. This post has been removed.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    "The number of mass shooting and deaths and injury by gun violence is on the rise. Is that a crisis?" 

    Of the experts who study mass murder, one name comes clearly to mind: Northeastern University Criminologist James Alan Fox, who has authored several books on the subject, including: “The Will To Kill: Explaining Senseless Murder” and ”Violence and Security on Campus: From Preschool through College.”

    In December, in the direct aftermath of the Sandy Hook tragedy, Fox was asked by the Associated Press if mass shootings were on the rise.

    His answer: “There is no pattern, there is no increase.”

    "I don't harbor any illusion that there will be any serious conversations about changing the way we worship guns."

    You harbor wildly inaccurate liberal illusions.

    Do not speak for Americans in saying "we" worship guns...that is a smear and falsehood.

    The common thread in almost all the mass killings is overuse of psychatric medications. These strong drugs do help some people, but it wildly exacerbates paranoia and rage in others.. as with all drugs today, they are overprescribed. Since science really doesnt know why or how these drugs work , they are dangerous and their use should not be routine.

     
  4. This post has been removed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    Recently, Vladimir Putin wrote an OP Ed piece for the Times which was vastly commented on in this forum. In fact, more than one poster complimented Mr. Putin for his "show of leadership" on the Syria issue. Comments were made that..at least Mr. Putin was demonstrating strong leadership in the face of such weak leadership offered by our own leaders, specifically President Obama. Anyhow..I think most get my drift.


    Fast forward to today...and another commentary by Russia on the quality and effectiveness of US leadership. This time, in the form of a Tweet from Alexey Pushkov, the chairman of the Russian Foreign affairs committee. The Tweet, translated, states "A new shooting at the Washington Navy Yard. One shooter and 7 bodies.No one is surprised anymore. A vivid confirmation of "American Exceptionalism".


    He also tweeted the following: "The USA should part with the notion of American Exceptionalism. It contradicts the principals of equal rights and smells of politcal racism".


    So...the question for the class tonight is ..What say you who were praising the Russians for their strong leadership in the face of crisis...? Is Mr. Puchokov correct in this case? Or..do we cherrypick when a leadership philosophy is right based on how it fits with our view of American Exceptionalism. The number of mass shooting and deaths and injury by gun violence is on the rise. Is that a crisis?

    Like those who agreed with Mr. Putin, I contend that Mr. Pushkov is right.  To me..the most telling statement in his two controversial tweets is "No one is surprised anymore".  To me..the entire thing can be summed up in those 5 words.

    As a country..and as a society..we need to take a good long look in the mirror and in our souls. If we can't even keep our military personnel safe from gun violence in this country , how in God's green earth can we expect to keep our school children safe?  Even as our country is shying away from a potential military conflict in Syria...we have lost the war in our own borders. The gun lobbies control our laws, our lawmakers and our thought in regards to guns and we let it happen. Now, it seems that we are powerless to stop it.

    Mr. Pushkov has stated in black and white what most of the industrialized world feels. When we cannot control a gun industry that is out of control, when we sacrifice countless lives to gun violence, including those of our heroes, children, and ordinary people, we have no right to preach American Exceptionalism.  Mr. Pushkov has a point when he implies that American Exceptionalism exists only in the minds of misled politicians. We are not exceptional to the rest of the world. How can we be? We have our heads in the sand pretending that there is no crisis of gun violence in this country.

    I don't harbor any illusion that there will be any serious conversations about changing the way we worship guns. If it didn't happen when 20 schoolchildren got shot down in cold blood a few weeks before Christmas.. it's not going to happen now.

    One place to start would be for the NRA and the gun lobby to come out and state that yesterday's shooter should not have had a gun, or a permit to carry. If they can't even agree to that..then we as Americans have lost.




    He's not a shooter, he's a killer.

    Those who recognize the 2nd amendment as valid don't worship guns any more than those who support abortion worship the death of innocents, so let's stop the nonsense of people who believe in the right to arm oneself for protection as "gun worshippers".

    The number of people saved by citizens having guns vastly outweighs the number killed by guns.

    As far as this individual:  It says more about the drugged up nature of our society, where solutions are found in" a pill" then pushed out onto the street, than it says abot gun ownership.

     
  6. This post has been removed.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to Beach-Spider's comment:

    By: The Washington Post

    Tuesday September 17, 2013

     

     

    Wink This article can address this topic much better than I.

     

     Few foreigners surprised after

     Navy Yard shootings.

     Many abroad saddened by deaths

    but say it's no surprise given gun culture in US

     

    LONDON — Jimmy Davis, a 41-year-old London disc jockey, was saddened when he heard about the latest mass shooting in the United States. But like much of the world after the attack Monday at Washington's Navy Yard, he was no longer shocked.

    The United States is a place where "buying guns is like buying sweets from a sweet shop - it's no problem," Davis said Tuesday on a busy shopping street in southwest London. "So when we hear there are shootings like this in America, we are not really shocked. Know what I mean?"

    That reaction — of horror but not surprise — as echoed by bystanders and in other places around the world following the deadly attack. As seen from abroad, the mass shooting, apparently by a lone gunman, appeared part of a new American normal, a byproduct of a treasured gun culture that largely mystifies those living beyond U.S. borders.

    Foreigners are aware of the grim list of the sites of recent U.S. massacres: Virginia Tech; Fort Hood, Texas; Aurora, Colo.; Oak Creek, Wis.; Newtown, Conn. — and now, Washington. And with gun laws little changed after the earlier killings, many said they fully expect the list to grow.

    MORE:  http://www.dailymail.com/News/NationandWorld/201309170259

                        

                                ~ 'Different Strokes' for 'Different Folks' ~ 




    Much of this killing happening in "gun free " zones.  go figure.

     
  8. This post has been removed.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    Much of this killing happening in "gun free " zones.  go figure.

     

     



    Yeah. Europe has so much higher a per capita gun violence rate.

     

     

     



    If you limit it to guns, sure. Open it up and you see that countries that ban guns typically have much higher crime rates overall.

     

     http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

     

    Still, the issue is the gun free zones.  Why do all these killings seem to happen in gun free zones?

    Care to answer that, or will you duck?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to miscricket's comment:

    Recently, Vladimir Putin wrote an OP Ed piece for the Times which was vastly commented on in this forum. In fact, more than one poster complimented Mr. Putin for his "show of leadership" on the Syria issue. Comments were made that..at least Mr. Putin was demonstrating strong leadership in the face of such weak leadership offered by our own leaders, specifically President Obama. Anyhow..I think most get my drift.


    Fast forward to today...and another commentary by Russia on the quality and effectiveness of US leadership. This time, in the form of a Tweet from Alexey Pushkov, the chairman of the Russian Foreign affairs committee. The Tweet, translated, states "A new shooting at the Washington Navy Yard. One shooter and 7 bodies.No one is surprised anymore. A vivid confirmation of "American Exceptionalism".


    He also tweeted the following: "The USA should part with the notion of American Exceptionalism. It contradicts the principals of equal rights and smells of politcal racism".


    So...the question for the class tonight is ..What say you who were praising the Russians for their strong leadership in the face of crisis...? Is Mr. Puchokov correct in this case? Or..do we cherrypick when a leadership philosophy is right based on how it fits with our view of American Exceptionalism. The number of mass shooting and deaths and injury by gun violence is on the rise. Is that a crisis?

    Like those who agreed with Mr. Putin, I contend that Mr. Pushkov is right.  To me..the most telling statement in his two controversial tweets is "No one is surprised anymore".  To me..the entire thing can be summed up in those 5 words.

    As a country..and as a society..we need to take a good long look in the mirror and in our souls. If we can't even keep our military personnel safe from gun violence in this country , how in God's green earth can we expect to keep our school children safe?  Even as our country is shying away from a potential military conflict in Syria...we have lost the war in our own borders. The gun lobbies control our laws, our lawmakers and our thought in regards to guns and we let it happen. Now, it seems that we are powerless to stop it.

    Mr. Pushkov has stated in black and white what most of the industrialized world feels. When we cannot control a gun industry that is out of control, when we sacrifice countless lives to gun violence, including those of our heroes, children, and ordinary people, we have no right to preach American Exceptionalism.  Mr. Pushkov has a point when he implies that American Exceptionalism exists only in the minds of misled politicians. We are not exceptional to the rest of the world. How can we be? We have our heads in the sand pretending that there is no crisis of gun violence in this country.

    I don't harbor any illusion that there will be any serious conversations about changing the way we worship guns. If it didn't happen when 20 schoolchildren got shot down in cold blood a few weeks before Christmas.. it's not going to happen now.

    One place to start would be for the NRA and the gun lobby to come out and state that yesterday's shooter should not have had a gun, or a permit to carry. If they can't even agree to that..then we as Americans have lost.



    Well I'd take this imperfect union over any of the other models out there.  One of our biggest assets is that we have the free power of debate, that is unless the BDC squashes comments contrary to their cherished issues.

    Yes the US does have a history of exceptionalism in our actions to foster democratic policies worldwide and support such causes.  Yes we also have a vast history of humanitarian support around the globe and yes we are guilty of pushing our policies and goals where they are not appreciated.

    We don't worship guns, but we do worship the right to posses them.

    I don't think that anyone would say that Aaron Alexis should have been able to buy a gun last weekend, based on his behavior over the last few months.  His altercation with his former employer in July, and his latest problems with hearing voices as reported to Newport RI Police 5 weeks ago should have headed off this escalating problem.  Based on RI PD contact with Navy; he should have been red flagged for immediate review of security clearance and base pass.  The VA Hospital contact should have done the same and he should have been flag to prevent his gun purchase last weekend.

    BTW Mass doesn't report mental health issues to the Fed database over privacy concerns.

     
  11. This post has been removed.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    I thought we weren't supposed to care what Putin/Russia thought about the US? Guess it depends on who brings it up...go figure

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

     

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    Much of this killing happening in "gun free " zones.  go figure.

     

     



    Yeah. Europe has so much higher a per capita gun violence rate.

     

     

     



    If you limit it to guns, sure. Open it up and you see that countries that ban guns typically have much higher crime rates overall.

     

     http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

     

    Still, the issue is the gun free zones.  Why do all these killings seem to happen in gun free zones?

    Care to answer that, or will you duck?

     

     

     

     




    What does the ability for someone carrying a gun to walk over a metaphorical state/county/city line without being searched have to do with mass killings and their relation to gun free zones?

     

     

     

    I see you ducked.

    Stop obfuscating.  All these killings happened in gun free zones.  

     

    Why do these killings all seem to happen in gun free zones?

    Just a random thing?

     
  14. This post has been removed.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    Do not speak for Americans in saying "we" worship guns...that is a smear and falsehood.


    Except that many Americans do, in fact, worship guns...

    ...much like other groups who worship cars, boats, bbq grills, college football, or movies about imaginary monsters and hobbits.

     

    There's no shame in it, either, so why is it a "smear"...?

    Like every other pseudo-religion in this country (and we have tons), they are free to practice their faith safely...

    ...without unduly imposing its tenets or its values upon others who may not share it.

     

     

     

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    The number of people saved by citizens having guns vastly outweighs the number killed by guns.


    Can you prove this statement...?

     

    I don't think so....

     

     

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    there's no way to count how many times a criminal decides against breaking into a home or robbing a business because he believes someone in that location might shoot him...no statistics show when a person is being robbed or assaulted and they display or brandish a lawfully owned firearm and the criminal decides to discontinue their unlawful efforts...when i was a kid and a guy tried breaking into my house, nobody entered into statistics the fact that when the guy found himself looking down the barrel of a loaded 45 that he decided to flee quickly....

    I thought this was about Putin....the world's most influential leader....who is eating Obama's lunch...and making a mockery of him......

    Did anyone else not get invited to Mondays White House concert with Ricky Martin and Gloria Estefan??? 

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to macnh1's comment:

    there's no way to count how many times a criminal decides against breaking into a home or robbing a business because he believes someone in that location might shoot him...no statistics show when a person is being robbed or assaulted and they display or brandish a lawfully owned firearm and the criminal decides to discontinue their unlawful efforts...when i was a kid and a guy tried breaking into my house, nobody entered into statistics the fact that when the guy found himself looking down the barrel of a loaded 45 that he decided to flee quickly....

    So, in other words, you don't know.

    Thanks for your honesty.

     

     

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    I'm here for you matty.....

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to macnh1's comment:

    I'm here for you matty.....



    ...for my amusement.  

    I know.

     

     

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    We are exceptionally good at killing people with guns, that's for sure.

     

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    We don't worship guns, but we do worship the right to posses them.

     



    Oh that may be a fair statement regarding yourself, but plenty of people here doworship guns. In the metaphorical sense, of course....

     

    [/QUOTE]

    recognizing the need to protect oneself in a dangerous world is not worship, it is common sense.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to macnh1's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    there's no way to count how many times a criminal decides against breaking into a home or robbing a business because he believes someone in that location might shoot him...no statistics show when a person is being robbed or assaulted and they display or brandish a lawfully owned firearm and the criminal decides to discontinue their unlawful efforts...when i was a kid and a guy tried breaking into my house, nobody entered into statistics the fact that when the guy found himself looking down the barrel of a loaded 45 that he decided to flee quickly....

     

     

    So, in other words, you don't know.

    Thanks for your honesty.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Lucky for you, I can answer that, at least to some extent.  Here, read this.

     

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/ryanhatesthis/10-potential-mass-shootings-

    that-were-stopped-by-someone-wit

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    recognizing the need to protect oneself in a dangerous world is not worship, it is common sense.

     



    Good thing that's not what I was talking about then, eh?

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Here's your statement:

    "but plenty of people here do worship guns."

    so, clarify something for me: did you just forget, or are you lying?

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

     

    Do not speak for Americans in saying "we" worship guns...that is a smear and falsehood.

     

     


    Except that many Americans do, in fact, worship guns...

    ...much like other groups who worship cars, boats, bbq grills, college football, or movies about imaginary monsters and hobbits.

     

    There's no shame in it, either, so why is it a "smear"...?

    Like every other pseudo-religion in this country (and we have tons), they are free to practice their faith safely...

    ...without unduly imposing its tenets or its values upon others who may not share it.

      




    So says a worshipper of the Almighty God of Government. You good with that, it is not a smear, is it??

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: American Exceptionalism....according to Russia

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

     

     

    Much of this killing happening in "gun free " zones.  go figure.

     

     



    Yeah. Europe has so much higher a per capita gun violence rate.

     

     

     



    If you limit it to guns, sure. Open it up and you see that countries that ban guns typically have much higher crime rates overall.

     

     http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/7922755/England-has-worse-crime-rate-than-the-US-says-Civitas-study.html

     

    Still, the issue is the gun free zones.  Why do all these killings seem to happen in gun free zones?

    Care to answer that, or will you duck?




    This particular instance was not a gun free zone. Investigators are saying that two of his three weapons were actually taken from the guards.

     

Share