Finally someone has a brain.

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  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Finally someone has a brain.

    In response to 12-Angry-Men's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    The executive order is actually a lifting of the pay-freeze on all federal workers put into effect in 2009.

    So these workers haven't seen any increase in their salary for 3 yrs. Even though inflation is fairly tame, going 3 yrs without a raise amounts to about a 6-7% pay cut.

    Which is more than the wingnuts are willing to ask of the uber-rich. Heck they want to give the plutocrats the keys to the treasury.

    [/QUOTE]


    Federal workers don't need a pay raise, still.  They are still better paid than the private sector, and enjoy security tyhe private sector can't even dream about. 

    And increasingly protected by unions.  I alway find it strange that federal workers need union protection from the  evils of federal government, but the rest of us are supposed to look upon the federal government as some sort of benevolent provider.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from ComingLiberalCrackup. Show ComingLiberalCrackup's posts

    Re: Finally someone has a brain.

    Straight salary wise, for comparable positions the public sector pays better. But beyond the salary, many public sector workers have no heavy lifting, no pressure, lifetime security, and cant be fired for anything less than murder.

    And the pensions! Most dictionaries define a millionaire as someone with wealth (i.e., assets) of $1 million. By that definition, many public sector workers  are millionaires, because the “net present value” of their retirement benefits is well in excess of $1 million.

    That is, if they had to fund their retirements from their own savings, they’d have to set aside seven figures today.

    Few who don’t work for the government sector have comparable assets. Over the last several decades, the private sector has moved increasingly to the 401(k)-style “defined contribution” model.

    • A New York City public school teacher earning $100,000 can retire at age 55 with a pension of $60,000.
    • A private-sector worker would need $1.2 million to buy an annuity with the same yield.
    • It would take an even larger nest egg to replicate the pension income of city police officers -- they typically retire in their 40s and collect an average pension of $58,563 with a $12,000 annual supplement.
     
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    Re: Finally someone has a brain.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    They are still better paid than the private sector



    If you're the kind of genius who lumps federal circuit court judges in with private sector farm hands, I suppose.

     

     

    Pathetic. You'd do the world better good rendered as fish food.

    [/QUOTE]

    Ouch.  

    I guess you need to try life in the private sector.  I guarantee you will be treated like fish food once you get ouutside of your weel-paid, union protected, healthcare and retirement lifestyle of being a "public servant". Working for the federal government is as close to the garden of eden lifestyle you are likely to see.

    Life on the outside is tough, WDYWN.  Bring a change of underwear.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Finally someone has a brain.

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Straight salary wise, for comparable positions the public sector pays better. But beyond the salary, many public sector workers have no heavy lifting, no pressure, lifetime security, and cant be fired for anything less than murder.

    And the pensions! Most dictionaries define a millionaire as someone with wealth (i.e., assets) of $1 million. By that definition, many public sector workers  are millionaires, because the “net present value” of their retirement benefits is well in excess of $1 million.

    That is, if they had to fund their retirements from their own savings, they’d have to set aside seven figures today.

    Few who don’t work for the government sector have comparable assets. Over the last several decades, the private sector has moved increasingly to the 401(k)-style “defined contribution” model.

    • A New York City public school teacher earning $100,000 can retire at age 55 with a pension of $60,000.
    • A private-sector worker would need $1.2 million to buy an annuity with the same yield.
    • It would take an even larger nest egg to replicate the pension income of city police officers -- they typically retire in their 40s and collect an average pension of $58,563 with a $12,000 annual supplement.

    [/QUOTE]

    Don't confuse governemnt workers with math or the concept that they have it easy.  It is just mean.

    I once talked to a teacher who thought her retirement was completely paid for out of her pocket, by paying 3% per year for 20 years.  I pointed out pretty much what you pointed out, that I had put away the max for 20 years and couldn't even come close to the value of her pension.  I got a blank stare. Well, at least she wasn't a math teacher, I hope.

    Makes you wonder what our kids are learning.

     
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    Re: Finally someone has a brain.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    It would take an even larger nest egg to replicate the pension income of city police officers -- they typically retire in their 40s and collect an average pension of $58,563 with a $12,000 annual supplement.



    I could get behind cutting pensions or having them stop after a certain number of years. And especially get rid of the obscene overtime abuse that lets cops take home over 200k a year.

     


    But what I find most interesting is how your response:

    (1) Ignores the absence of "private sector" workers who do the same things that public police officers do. The closest you get is private security. But private security does less and faces less danger, so no sh!t they're probably paid less.

    nevermind that you didn't even try to find comparable private sector pay. You just ranted.

     

    (2) You also omitted private high school and college pay to teachers/professors.

     

     

    Your post is as irrelevant to the topic as if I pointed to Warren's 350k pay for teaching one class as proof that private sector professors make several times more what public sector ones do (state schools, etc).

    [/QUOTE]

    Time and time again the lid is blown off your government workers earn less mantra.  It just sin't true.  Here, read this:

    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/01/02/are-teachers-overpaid/teachers-earn-more-than-they-would-in-the-private-sector

    or this:

    http://reason.org/news/show/public-sector-private-sector-salary

    or this:

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-03-01-1Apublicworkers01_ST_N.htm

     

    It goes on and on.

     
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    Re: Finally someone has a brain.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to ComingLiberalCrackup's comment:

    A New York City public school teacher earning $100,000



    Say what?

     

     

    The only teachers I know are more like 40k. Does NYC pay abnormally high rates?

    [/QUOTE]

    40k? Where do you live, Appalachia?

     

    Average teachers salary in Massachusetts is over 70k.  That's the average, mind you.  Look it up.  I did.

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Finally someone has a brain.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    I guess you need to try life in the private sector.  I guarantee you will be treated like fish food once you get ouutside of your weel-paid, union protected, healthcare and retirement lifestyle of being a "public servant"

     

    If I'm a public servant, how is it I handle private criminal cases?

     

    Seriously though....please do nature a favor: Stick your head in a bucket of water and inhale deeply.

    The worms will make better use of your body than you do.

    [/QUOTE]

    Right. Private lawyers have as much free time as you do.  Time you spend promoting liberal, union activities.

     
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    Re: Finally someone has a brain.

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Time and time again the lid is blown off your government workers earn less mantra.  It just sin't true.  Here, read this:

    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/01/02/are-teachers-overpaid/teachers-earn-more-than-they-would-in-the-private-sector

    or this:

    http://reason.org/news/show/public-sector-private-sector-salary

    or this:

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-03-01-1Apublicworkers01_ST_N.htm

     

    It goes on and on.

    [/QUOTE]


     

     

     

    http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2012/01/02/are-teachers-overpaid/teachers-earn-more-than-they-would-in-the-private-sector


    Contains views that both agree with and disagree with you. Also recognizes the problems I raised with your claims: The job types and duties are often not comparable.

     

    http://reason.org/news/show/public-sector-private-sector-salary

    Comes to the ultimate conclusion that the only real meaningful driver here is pensions - and I am on record saying - again and again and again - that these juicy public sector pensions should be gotten rid of. They were only fair when the public sector salaries were way below private sector because then, you reward the person taking dirt pay to do a public service with guarunteed comfort post-service.

    But, points out some flaws that I found: You can't just lump together all federal workers and all private workers and say "aha! look at the wage comparison!"

    The only meaningful analysis compares comparable jobs. Otherwise you're comparing agency heads with private farm hands (or public janitors with private CEOs). That doesn't make sense.

     

     

     

    http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2011-03-01-1Apublicworkers01_ST_N.htm

    This suffers the above problem. It also ignores the degree of education and training of workers.

    [/QUOTE]

    I purposely posted article that told both sides of the story.  Btw, the study cited in NYT (or is it reaso) has largely been discredited.

    the point you seem to miss is that when you count benefits, public sector is miles ahead. 

     

    http://reason.com/blog/2012/05/14/the-90-percent-who-work-in-private-secto

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from BilltheKat. Show BilltheKat's posts

    Re: Finally someone has a brain.

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    I guess you need to try life in the private sector.  I guarantee you will be treated like fish food once you get ouutside of your weel-paid, union protected, healthcare and retirement lifestyle of being a "public servant"

     

    If I'm a public servant, how is it I handle private criminal cases?

     

    Seriously though....please do nature a favor: Stick your head in a bucket of water and inhale deeply.

    The worms will make better use of your body than you do.

    [/QUOTE]

    Right. Private lawyers have as much free time as you do.  Time you spend promoting liberal, union activities.

    [/QUOTE]

    FYI: Hating others that are more successful than you just makes you sound like an a$$-hole.

    If everyone working for unions, including teachers and snow plow drivers made less than you, would you be happier? 

     

     
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