Henry Louis Gates

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    Henry Louis Gates

    Remember him..??  I admit that prior to hearing him this morning on Morning Joe, the "Beer summit" was all I really knew about Henry Gates.

    I have to say, I am incredibly impressed by his thoughts and comments this morning. Not only is he brilliant and articulate, but he said some things that made me sit back and say "huh". One of the things he talked about was something I have thought for quite a long time now. He said that affirmative action needs to be changed. It needs to change to keep up with society as it is today. Gates would like to take race out of the equation for affirmative action and make it more about poverty. In other words, he'd like us, when we talk about things like equality of opportunity to use poverty as a measure not the color of one's skin or their heritage.

    Gates used his own situation and family as an example. He stated as an upper middle class African American family, why should his daughters get any preferential treatment in college admissions, etc. just because they are African American? He implied that if colleges and universities want to give a hand up to someone, give it to the student living in poverty.

    I have to say that while a policy such as this may be tricky to implement, I think it's worth a try. If we are really serious about lifting people out of poverty..it's not enough to say they should pull themselves up by the bootstraps..we have to give them an equal opportunity and a chance to succeed.

    In a further conversation about race, Gates said something that I find sad. He stated that there is an entire wing of the racist images of President Obama in the Jim Crowe Museum in Michigan. Yet there are still some who claim racism doesn't exist in the US.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    I don't think anyone should get preferential treatment to get into college or get a job. Either you meet the qualifications based on grades or ability or you don't. People living in poverty do get help to pay for college with financial aid and scholarships. I coached a kid whose family didn't have a pot to pi55 in so he busted his a55 finding every scholarship possible to apply for. He ended up getting money to pay for college...Cornell. The key was he busted his a55 rather than just accept his lot in life and throw his hands up and use being poor as an excuse...and he's hardly the only poor kid to take this avenue.

    How fair is is that if a white guy and black guy take the fire exam and the white scores 90 but the black guy scores and 75 the black guy goes ahead of the white guy on the list. Um...really? Is that fair? Now, sure I get why affirmative action started...because blacks were looked over for jobs due to racism back in the day. Well...two wrongs don't make a right. 

     
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    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    Attention should not be focused on an affirmative action type plan to address our inequality problem, but rather we should be concentrating on common sense investments in our society (that most conservatives decry as socialism).  Things like:  better government sponsored child care, or even stipends for stay at home parents with young children; universal health care; readily available young adult vocational training programs, cheaper  higher education.  

    The rich indeed have advantages that the poor can only dream about.  Take Mitt Romney for example.  Romney's father ran an auto company and then was Governor, and sent Mitt through one of the most expensive private schools in the country before paying his way through seven years of Harvard. That is called being launched, not "bootstraps". He is one of a handful of the richest men in the country because that was his launch trajectory from his preteen years.

    Are there poor people who become successful, of course.  But far too many are slipping thru the cracks.

     

     

     
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    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    I am NWDYW, and I endorse this thread.

     
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    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    To show the utter absurdity of modern "affirmative action": 

    The voters in Michigan lawfully passed the following amendment to the State Constitution:

    "The state shall not discriminate against, or grant preferential treatment to, any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity, or national origin in the operation of public employment, public education, or public contracting."

    Does the above somehow violate the federal 14th Amendment?

    The 14th amendment states : ".......nor shall any State ....deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

    The federal courts absurdly said, "yes" !!!  Giving all equal opportunity violates equal protection!!! Now before the US Supreme Court.

    Liberal judges want the state to continue to divide us by race, to divvy up quotas of college admission, and jobs....

    How dare the voters of Michigan want to treat everyone equally?

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    [QUOTE]Gates would like to take race out of the equation for affirmative action and make it more about poverty.[/QUOTE]

    Here, here!

     

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    [QUOTE]Gates would like to take race out of the equation for affirmative action and make it more about poverty.[/QUOTE]

    Here, here!

     

    [/QUOTE]

    So, youu are a "Life of Julia" supporter?

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    In response to FortySixAndTwo's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I don't think anyone should get preferential treatment to get into college or get a job. Either you meet the qualifications based on grades or ability or you don't. People living in poverty do get help to pay for college with financial aid and scholarships. I coached a kid whose family didn't have a pot to pi55 in so he busted his a55 finding every scholarship possible to apply for. He ended up getting money to pay for college...Cornell. The key was he busted his a55 rather than just accept his lot in life and throw his hands up and use being poor as an excuse...and he's hardly the only poor kid to take this avenue.

    How fair is is that if a white guy and black guy take the fire exam and the white scores 90 but the black guy scores and 75 the black guy goes ahead of the white guy on the list. Um...really? Is that fair? Now, sure I get why affirmative action started...because blacks were looked over for jobs due to racism back in the day. Well...two wrongs don't make a right. 

    [/QUOTE]


    The point of my post is that Gates is advocating changing that...so that people are not competing against each other on the basis of race.

    The story about the kid you coached is a nice one and happens every day...but for every kid like that there's a kid who is growing up with drug addicted..or absent parents who simply does not have ( or never learned) the tools necessary to pull themselves up. In this case I advocate giving them a hand...but I advocate giving people a hand in general. Must be my Christian upbringing.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    In response to UserName9's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Attention should not be focused on an affirmative action type plan to address our inequality problem, but rather we should be concentrating on common sense investments in our society (that most conservatives decry as socialism).  Things like:  better government sponsored child care, or even stipends for stay at home parents with young children; universal health care; readily available young adult vocational training programs, cheaper  higher education.  

    The rich indeed have advantages that the poor can only dream about.  Take Mitt Romney for example.  Romney's father ran an auto company and then was Governor, and sent Mitt through one of the most expensive private schools in the country before paying his way through seven years of Harvard. That is called being launched, not "bootstraps". He is one of a handful of the richest men in the country because that was his launch trajectory from his preteen years.

    Are there poor people who become successful, of course.  But far too many are slipping thru the cracks.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with you for the most part. This is why I stated that what Gates is proposing would be somewhat tricky to do on a grand scale..but the way you are approaching it..to make the investment in education ( especially in poorer communities), affordable higher education...etc would go a long way to lifting people out of poverty. Really ..study after study proves beyond a doubt that early, quality education is the key to lifting people out of poverty...

     
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    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    We are.....Bail Out Nation!

    Are you a bank that f'd up and too risky loans? No problem, here is some cash to tide you over.

    Did you goof off in school, not take it seriously and miss an opportunity to improve your life? No problem, here are some food stamps, Scetion 8, WIC, ADFC, EBT. Have a good one.

    Did your company employ a bazillion union workers, promise them the world but continue to make lousy cars and go bankrupt? Noooo Problem, here is a few billion, pay us back if/when you can.

    Did your insurance company forget that you have to account for claims when you charge for insurance? No problem because you have us by the gonads so here is a few billion for you.

    Affirmative action? I don't really support it because it presents a false view of the real world to those who benefit, but at least I understand it when it is based on something someone is born with and can't do anything about. Poverty? Makes no sense. 

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    . Poverty? Makes no sense. 

    [/QUOTE]

    Again, the idea is one of pragmatism.


    Those born poor start at a major disadvantage on the education front. Look at inner city / poor rural schools.

    So, if the policies levels the playing field somewhat, and they put in a lot of hard work, they'll get out of poverty. And the more people out of poverty, the better we all do.

     
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  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    In response to chiefhowie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    always Give it to me  mass hole. let moma GOV raise me.

    Charles Payne (black) left B'Ham ,AL 19yrs old work his way up to own his own company. Millionaire.

    Me (White) left AL at B,Ham at 151/2 yrs went out to see the world. 

    Worked many 60hr weeks. retail.Navy,Mfg.

    don't owe any debt and 315k savings.

    Barney's equal opportunity / redistribution of the wealth is why we are GITM nation.

    hard to work your way up these days

     

    [/QUOTE]


    ...but I'll bet you never lived in poverty.

    I love how the extremists parse out a few examples of people who were able to overcome great odds and complain why this doesn't apply to an entire class of people ( those in poverty). If one can do it..how come everyone can't?

    Let me use an analogy. I swim..in fact I swim at least a mile a few times a week. Ryan Lochte swims...he is an elite swimmer. I am not. I could practice 8 hours a day for years and I will never be able to beat Ryan Lochte in a competition. Why..? Because I simply don't have the tools to do it. But..by the logic of some of my right wing friends, if I just simply practice hard enough, I should have no trouble beating Lochte..right?

    So..the examples of people who make it in spite of great poverty ( and many of those are of people who are not the poorest among us) are really not contributing to the solution of the problem of poverty. All they do is villify the people who simply don't have the tools to make it without some help.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    I believe Gates is right.  Some areas of our society have moved well beyond the need for affirmative action.  But I'm not sure that ALL of our society has.

    I think he's correct to emphasize poverty instead of race when it comes to higher achievement and equality of opportunity.  But it's wrong to think that discrimination doesn't exist or that the end of affirmative action programs will also mean the end of institutional racial bias.  So, knowing that we may never conquer the latter means that we can only really control the former, policywise.

     

     

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    In response to miscricket's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chiefhowie's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    always Give it to me  mass hole. let moma GOV raise me.

    Charles Payne (black) left B'Ham ,AL 19yrs old work his way up to own his own company. Millionaire.

    Me (White) left AL at B,Ham at 151/2 yrs went out to see the world. 

    Worked many 60hr weeks. retail.Navy,Mfg.

    don't owe any debt and 315k savings.

    Barney's equal opportunity / redistribution of the wealth is why we are GITM nation.

    hard to work your way up these days

     

    [/QUOTE]


    ...but I'll bet you never lived in poverty.

    I love how the extremists parse out a few examples of people who were able to overcome great odds and complain why this doesn't apply to an entire class of people ( those in poverty). If one can do it..how come everyone can't?

    Let me use an analogy. I swim..in fact I swim at least a mile a few times a week. Ryan Lochte swims...he is an elite swimmer. I am not. I could practice 8 hours a day for years and I will never be able to beat Ryan Lochte in a competition. Why..? Because I simply don't have the tools to do it. But..by the logic of some of my right wing friends, if I just simply practice hard enough, I should have no trouble beating Lochte..right?

    So..the examples of people who make it in spite of great poverty ( and many of those are of people who are not the poorest among us) are really not contributing to the solution of the problem of poverty. All they do is villify the people who simply don't have the tools to make it without some help.

    [/QUOTE]

    No one ever said you need to beat Lochte. You just need to try hard enough to stay afloat and not drown. 

     

     
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  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from NowWhatDoYouWant. Show NowWhatDoYouWant's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    In response to chiefhowie's comment:


    So walking along the shore looking at the Waves is not good enough for you. You have to have everything.  everyone should be swiming (Rich)
    I lived on a farm until 15 1/2 moved to Mobile to join Mercant Marines. 

    they ask me if I was 18, said "I might be" . can't tell a lie.

    Worked in the fields.

    Ate Granny's can goods.

     



    What if you didn't have a family to feed you or a roof over your head?

    You already were in a better position than the people receiving welfare-type assistance.

     

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from miscricket. Show miscricket's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    In response to NowWhatDoYouWant's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to chiefhowie's comment:

    [QUOTE]
    So walking along the shore looking at the Waves is not good enough for you. You have to have everything.  everyone should be swiming (Rich)
    I lived on a farm until 15 1/2 moved to Mobile to join Mercant Marines. 

     

    they ask me if I was 18, said "I might be" . can't tell a lie.

    Worked in the fields.

    Ate Granny's can goods.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

     

    What if you didn't have a family to feed you or a roof over your head?

    You already were in a better position than the people receiving welfare-type assistance.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]


    I think that's the point most of the extreme right misses.

     
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  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Henry Louis Gates

    I think the point progressives are missing, and absolutely refuse to see, even though it is staring them right in their face, is that we already have a solution to poverty.  It is called freedom and capitalism.

    that's why our poor have big screen tv's, cellphones, and squeak by on 3,000 calories per day.

    look, I am not falling for this progressive change in direction.  Having failed to win their war on poverty, progressives are throwing another tool into the mix.

     

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