Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    But we have a debate about waterboarding and people like you and Hansonbrother would stop far short of that. You claim things like loud music, sleep deprevation, isolation, koran-peeing, etc. are "tantamount to torture" and then claim America is a torture state. And now we have a President that is womanly as you too.
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    Ahhh you see this is why this conversation annoys me.
    Did I ever say that?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In case you didn't notice, I was parroting Hansonbrother in his declaration that waterboarding is torture therefore American is a torture state.
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    My position is if you waterboard that's torture. More experts agree with that than disagree.
    My position would be to drug the captive, such as sodium penathol(?) or some other 'truth' serum. It's not physically abusive, there are no lingering side effects and I believe, though I don't know for a fact, that it would be more reliable than torture. I believe it is justifiable for those people that are 'high value'.
    What say you and Hanson brother?
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 12angrymen. Show 12angrymen's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    In Response to Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state : So you say it's not against the law. Gov. George W. Bush would have to disagree. 'When George W. Bush was the governor of Texas, the state investigated, indicted, convicted and sentenced to prison for 10 years a county sheriff who, with his deputies, had waterboarded a criminal suspect. That sheriff got no pardon from Gov. Bush.' Read more: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2007/11/07/21200/commentary-is-waterboarding-torture.html#ixzz0iDDQnh4r
    Posted by 12angrymen

    That is totally irrelevant.
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    It's undeniably relevant. Bush allowed a sheriff, under his command to be convicted of a crime, and serve a jail sentence that he, himself later authorized. 
    At the very least he could have given the guy a presidential pardon. 
    If it's good for the goose then good for the gander.
    And if you don't think it's relevant then you should have no problem with Holder investigating people who waterboarded suspects under Bush-as-president. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from s0ftsquash. Show s0ftsquash's posts

    Re: Karl Rove is proud that he helped turn America into a torture state

    You lose just on the cop out factor on that answer.
    You lose on assuming I'm copping out. The point is that no matter how someone earned their stay at Gitmo, they'll get their time before a judge and jury.
    Bush said that Afghanistan was critical to our national security. If it was why did he neglect it?
    Thats a matter of opinion whether he neglected it. Before you go on a spiel about Iraq getting all the resources yadaa yadda, don't play the game that theres some perfect number that SHOULD have been on the ground. When it comes to Afghanistan, there isn't enough troops in the free world now and for the next 100 years that will turn that 3rd world shite pool into a self-sustaining prosperous democracy. The only measurable gain is the amount of peace you'll sustain and to get that peace will have a cost...in dollars, because the value of the dollar is know by everyone there. Afg is the modern day Vietnam. We aren't there because we think Bin Laden is still there, nor for any other tactical level gains. The reasons are way above our pay grades to understand.
    If you've ever been on a LRS mission then you would know that a satelite can give you just about any info you need down to the number of vehicles and where they're heading. All you have to do is intercept them at any border crossing.
    I never had the luxury of satellite imagery for my missions. A 50,000 scale map and an overlay. I understand the benefits of sat imagery, but unfortunately when you work at battallion level on down, you don't get that asset before division and corps units.
    If I'm not mistaken, after Colin Powell briefed the sat images they had of Iraq's WMD assets, the liberal press overwhelmingly dubbed it as illegitimate. No surprise there.
    All you have to do is intercept them at any border crossing.
    It took 3 months of UN stalling and incompetent inspectors before the first troops touched soil in Iraq. I guess you missed my marijuana analogy.
    Allright,  I get it, your a partisan punk who spouts the party line and doesn't actually read or think about the other postion. That's your perogative.
    What I said was, if your going to get into a war, do it with a winning strategy.

    I have no party affiliation. We havent had a winning strategy since WW2 with the exception of Desert Storm which really wasn't a war per se.
    All of those suspects were not captured by us moron, that's why they were released, we didn't have a shred of evidence other than the fact we paid people for bodies, not terrorists.
    So those captured by our allies have to be released? The were vacationing in Cuba and took a wrong turn into Gitmo? Now your starting to sound really stupid.
    I'll bet you the bank that every one of those inmates were found on the battlefield. Maybe they got caught up in the fray, maybe they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I'm going to give my fellow troopers the benefit of the doubt when they have to make immediate decisions on what to do when the shite starts flying. Pay for bodies? You sure you didn't suffer any brain trauma doing your time?
    Dude are you for real?
    I guess  a history of attempted and failed appeasments in an international perspective doesn't answer YOUR appeasment question. You wanted examples, I gave you some. I'm not going to waste time answering a question if you won't look at the answer.
    Do you think that the US would be in this position militarly in Iraq right now if we didn't 'appease' the Sunni in Anbar?
    Do we agree that militarily the US has gained significant stability? I consider the Sunni a faction and huge segment of the populace, not a jihadist/extemist organization. Back to my original argument: we can appease the POPULACE not the EXTREMISTS? Do I have to restate THIS a 3rd time? Please tell me you didnt spend 9 years of Spec Ops not knowing where to target the "hearts and mind" assets as opposed to bullets and grenades.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Josetavares. Show Josetavares's posts

    Re: Jason Bay is right

    In Response to Jason Bay is right:
    This year's Sox are a bunch of hitting fools.  I mean in two separate games today they scored a total of, let me see, no runs.  Ellsbury and Scutaro are below the mendoza line.  Well, it's early.  Still almost three weeks before the games start to count. 
    Posted by M1A2


    Great Point!

    Cool
     

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