Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from giraffe-77. Show giraffe-77's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    Maybe we should just call them "crimes of terrorism".  Different word, same thing.  Killing or injuring someone's person or property indiscriminately.  Based only on their color, nationality, sexual preference or height... whatever.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]I understand the opposition view also and I think that white Christians should be protected by hate crime laws too.  If a group of Jews starts vandalizing Christian churches or graveyards, that would be a hate crime - not simply misdemeanor vandalism.  Spray-painting the Star of David on gravestones is just as much of a crime as painting swastikas on Jewish graves and temples. If a bunch of gays go storming into a straight bar with assult weapons yelling "death to heteros", deal with that, too.
    Posted by giraffe-77[/QUOTE]

    The laws do not protect any particular race, gender, orientation, etc.  If a bunch of gays assault a hetero "to get even" for previous prejudice that would be a hate crime.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Reubenhop. Show Reubenhop's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]I dismiss the deterrent theory. When people commit violent crimes.. they either are emotional or they plan but don't expect to get caught. In both cases there is zero room for considering the consequences.
    Posted by Ohhhhh-Bammy[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps you're right: bigots are incredibly stupid people who often act out in harmful ways.  But the liberal in me believes that people can change. Maybe seeing one of their brother bigots get slammed for a hate crime will cause one to see the error of his ways and embrace civility.  Such a bad dream?
     
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from giraffe-77. Show giraffe-77's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it. : The laws do not protect any particular race, gender, orientation, etc.  If a bunch of gays assault a hetero "to get even" for previous prejudice that would be a hate crime.
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]

    I agree, reuben.  But in these days of hateful, indescriminate crimes against a person's nationality, religion, or whatever, there has to be a category for that kind of crime.  Call it "terrorism", it doesn't matter.  If someone spraypaints a swastika on your grandmother's headstone in the cemetary, it has to be treated differently than the misdemeanor vandalism of "tagging" someone's fence.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaCeltics. Show DaCeltics's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    If any state should botch a prosecution of a hate crime, the feds now have a legal leg to pick up the pieces and pursue justice.


    That's my understanding.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shumirules. Show shumirules's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    If you want to commit a crime make sure you do it agaisnt a straight white male then it will called  a love crime not a big deal then I guess.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    What about my question about how we establish who is and isn't gay, how do we know, did the assailant know, how do we know if they knew...these are the types of questions that the defense will ask and the problems they pose for the prosecution will be huge in making their case.

    Won't the idea of establishing the existence and knowledge of "gay" in the first place be impossible in many cases??

    This should be incredibly easy for defense attorneys to defend against.  Putting the victim on the stand and making them establish whether or not they really are gay, etc..is going to be a circus.

    "Sir, at any time before the attack were you openly having homosexual relations with another man where the defendant could see you??  Did you tell the defendent you were gay at any time, were you wearing a tee shirt that said you were gay?  Have you met the defendant before or been somewhere with him where he could have previoulsy identified you as being gay??"  "No??  Then how can you be sure that the assailant even knew you were gay???"  Case dismissed.
    Think about women who are raped and have to testify...if the process is a disaster for them, just imagine how this will be.

    As usual..Congress doesn't actually think about legislation before they pass it......

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from giraffe-77. Show giraffe-77's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    It's my understanding that hate crimes only come into play when the motive is undeniably a result of hate for a particular group.  ie: If the guy who threw the Molotov into a gay bar had no history of gay-bashing and if he's been known to throw bombs into other bars too, then it wouldn't be a hate crime.  If the skin heads defacing synagogues and Jewish cemetaries also do that to Christian churches, then it's not a hate crime.  But we're not that stupid, are we?

    If idiots would stop terrorizing fellow Americans, we wouldn't be having this discussion.  Hopefully stricter laws will curb their lust for blood and vengance.

    Chek out www.splcenter.org .  They monitor hate groups and crimes.  It's more rampant than you might think.  And Bostonians aren't quite out there in the "war zone".
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gabootwo2006. Show gabootwo2006's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    HOW ABOUT THIS.......A CRIME IS A CRIME....ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL.


    ONCE SOMEONE IS CAUGHT, ACCUSED, FOUND GUILTY OF A CRIME ACTUALLY HAVING HARSH SENTENCES FOR THE CRIME.


    Oh no....liberals might get tripped up with the ILLEGAL IS ILLEGAL thing since they want to aid and assist those here ILLEGALLY. I say....send them all to jail if they can be legally be charged with a crime. Better shu those illegals away you moonbat liberals. Otherwise, you just might be brought up on charges for aiding and abbedding criminals (Illegal aliens)

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from giraffe-77. Show giraffe-77's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    You are very ignorant if you can't get any more than THAT out of the conversation.  How old are you? 10?  These issues are very serious and life threatening to many.  To your mentality, it's just another excuse to insult "liberals" and sit on your pompous azs ignoring any real issues.  Enjoy your Extreme Wrestling.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeutralObserver. Show NeutralObserver's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    "There are no BC kids from Southie"

    Yeah they just put BC high school in Southie by accident. Idiot!
     
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  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from scauma82. Show scauma82's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it. : Most times there is absolutely no good reason when one assaults someone. Especially in a bar. More than likely it was someone being a stupid drunk. MANY fights happen where one person did nothing to the other one. Happens all the time. Sure it's not right for someone to target a gay person and assault them. So arrest them, charge them and give them the penalty for assault. Again, why does it have to be different? What happens if one gets in an argument and assaults someone and then it turns out the person who was assaulted happens to be gay? Can that now be considered a "hate" crime? Where does it end? What's next....if someone yells out the word "fa99ot" will that be grounds for arrest? For all I know maybe is already. Wouldn't surprise me.
    Posted by hawkeye01[/QUOTE]

    its the same reason the time handed out varies if you intentionally kill someone or if you do it by 'accident.' pre-meditated crimes are different than spur of the moment crimes and you can say it's pre-meditated if the person holds some sort of ill will toward homosexuals already.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from scauma82. Show scauma82's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it. : I think you've hit the nail on the head here, scauma, as to why such "hate crime" laws exist. But it's hard to refute what the others posters are saying, especially since, if someone is wacky enough to beat the tar out of someone just because of their lifestyle, they aren't going to stop because it's "extra-illegal".
    Posted by easydoesit2[/QUOTE]

    same with the death penalty, it doesn't stop murders any more than regular old jail time but it's still around.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from scauma82. Show scauma82's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it. : What about the guy who walks down Yawkee Way at 11pm with a Yankees hat and Jeter shirt, minding his own business who encounters three drunk BC kids from Southie???  How is that on the hate scale relative to the gays??  Any more or less stupid, ignorant or illegal???
    Posted by macnh1[/QUOTE]

    in theory that's a good point but in reality there are a lot more homosexuals walking around than yankee fans walking down yawkee way.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from scauma82. Show scauma82's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    most of us can reasonably expect to walk down a street and not be harassed, a lot of homosexuals don't have this same luxury. while most ppl here may have no feelings towards homosexuals, our society has shown to not be so forgiving. i think some here are making this to simplistic, just because you aren't harassed for walking out your door doesn't mean they're aren't those. i think any law designed to address this works in the same way cameras do, not to put an end to crime but to act as a deterrent. whether that works or not in practice is up to debate.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from macnh1. Show macnh1's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it. : in theory that's a good point but in reality there are a lot more homosexuals walking around than yankee fans walking down yawkee way.
    Posted by scauma82[/QUOTE]

    I think it's easier to spot a Yankees fan than it is to figure out if someone is gay or not.  If we are deciding who is and isn't gay by simply looking at them, that's not a good thing.  Not many gays wear hats that say, "I'm gay!!"
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it. : its the same reason the time handed out varies if you intentionally kill someone or if you do it by 'accident.' pre-meditated crimes are different than spur of the moment crimes and you can say it's pre-meditated if the person holds some sort of ill will toward homosexuals already.
    Posted by scauma82[/QUOTE]

    That is true. If I get into a fight with you because I didn't like what you said and I accidentally kill you that is a lighter sentence than a pre-meditated murder. If I get in a fight with you because I don't like that you're gay and I accidentally kill you it's the same thing as the first example I gave. Both cases are accidental. Yet people like you want to make the sentence different because in one scenario the guy happens to be gay. Why should it matter if it's because you're gay or because I didn't like what you said? In either case I would have broken the law and I should be arrested and prosecuted for manslaughter or whatever level accidental murder falls under.
    What if someone gets in an argument and accidentally kills a person and it turns out the one who was killed just so happened to be gay. The person who did the killing had no idea the person he killed was gay. Simple coincidence. Does the person deserve to be tried for a hate crime? Where does it end?
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from hawkeye01. Show hawkeye01's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]most of us can reasonably expect to walk down a street and not be harassed, a lot of homosexuals don't have this same luxury. while most ppl here may have no feelings towards homosexuals, our society has shown to not be so forgiving. i think some here are making this to simplistic, just because you aren't harassed for walking out your door doesn't mean they're aren't those. i think any law designed to address this works in the same way cameras do, not to put an end to crime but to act as a deterrent. whether that works or not in practice is up to debate.
    Posted by scauma82[/QUOTE]

    But there are already crimes against harassing people. There are already crimes against assaulting another human being. Why is this not enough? As for a deterrent you can't be this naive. No punishment is a deterrent. If it was there'd be no need for cops would there?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Ohhhhh-Bammy. Show Ohhhhh-Bammy's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it. : I think it's easier to spot a Yankees fan than it is to figure out if someone is gay or not.  If we are deciding who is and isn't gay by simply looking at them, that's not a good thing.  Not many gays wear hats that say, "I'm gay!!"
    Posted by macnh1[/QUOTE]

    Makes me wonder which is more disgucting.. Yankees fan or gay...
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from lrecliner. Show lrecliner's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    So if a gay guy beats up another gay guy then he gets a lighter sentence because he had a better reason?
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Mattyhorn. Show Mattyhorn's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it. : Makes me wonder which is more disgucting.. Yankees fan or gay...
    Posted by Ohhhhh-Bammy[/QUOTE]

    OhBammy the Ever-Tolerant - what makes either group "disgusting" in the first place?

    Such thoughts on your part may not be criminal, but in your case, they seem to be par for the course.  Here's hoping those attitudes never run afoul of the law....
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from giraffe-77. Show giraffe-77's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it. : OhBammy the Ever-Tolerant - what makes either group "disgusting" in the first place? Such thoughts on your part may not be criminal, but in your case, they seem to be par for the course.  Here's hoping those attitudes never run afoul of the law....
    Posted by Mattyhorn[/QUOTE]

    On a more positive note, maybe hate crime legislation won't be necessary in the future.  We all know that many times, the judicial system has turned a blind eye to crimes against blacks, Jews and gays.  In the deep South, many of their cops were in the gangs of cross-burners.  That isn't going to be so easy in this "information age".  These crimes are in the spotlight nationally and they just can't get away with that swit anymore.

    Nobody is proud to be treated like a protected minority, but if these idiots would just stop terrorizing fellow Americans, they wouldn't need these protections.  Judging by some of the comments on this board, it is still IS necessary.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from aconvosier10. Show aconvosier10's posts

    Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.

    In Response to Re: Obama signs Hate Crimes Legislation!!! I don't get it.:
    [QUOTE]most of us can reasonably expect to walk down a street and not be harassed, a lot of homosexuals don't have this same luxury. while most ppl here may have no feelings towards homosexuals, our society has shown to not be so forgiving. i think some here are making this to simplistic, just because you aren't harassed for walking out your door doesn't mean they're aren't those. i think any law designed to address this works in the same way cameras do, not to put an end to crime but to act as a deterrent. whether that works or not in practice is up to debate.
    Posted by scauma82[/QUOTE]

    Maybe people can't choose to be gay, maybe not. One thing is for certain, people can choose to dress and act in certain manners when in public. If you choose to dress/act outrageously, than be prepared have some people possibly snicker. As for this un-seen violence against gays, that what was successfully handled by the "tolerance" movement in early 90's. But that isn't enough for the gay movement it has to be about domination and forced acceptance - now that infringes on some peoples right to not agree, and unfortunately it is the right of the individual to determine whether they agree with this lifestyle or not.

    This new bill effectively creates super citizens and that means taking rights away from others.

    Its time to have reality check: gay people don't deserve compassion or anything special above and beyond the normal rank & file joe/jill sixpack. If we were a compassionate society we would note that gay people partake in excesses that many people who deserve compassion cannot. You want to change the world for the better; extend your utmost compassion to the sick, ugly, retarded and incompetent - they did not choose their condition they were born that way and that is tragic. 
     

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