Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    Since the S.&P. 500 first reached its current level, in March 2000, the mad money printers at the Federal Reserve have expanded their balance sheet sixfold (to $3.2 trillion from $500 billion). Yet during that stretch, economic output has grown by an average of 1.7 percent a year (the slowest since the Civil War); real business investment has crawled forward at only 0.8 percent per year; and the payroll job count has crept up at a negligible 0.1 percent annually. Real median family income growth has dropped 8 percent, and the number of full-time middle class jobs, 6 percent. The real net worth of the “bottom” 90 percent has dropped by one-fourth. The number of food stamp and disability aid recipients has more than doubled, to 59 million, about one in five American

    As the federal government and its central-bank sidekick, the Fed, have groped for one goal after another — smoothing out the business cycle, minimizing inflation and unemployment at the same time, rolling out a giant social insurance blanket, promoting homeownership, subsidizing medical care, propping up old industries (agriculture, automobiles) and fostering new ones (“clean” energy, biotechnology) and, above all, bailing out Wall Street — they have now succumbed to overload, overreach and outside capture by powerful interests. The modern Keynesian state is broke, paralyzed and mired in empty ritual incantations about stimulating “demand,” even as it fosters a mutant crony capitalism that periodically lavishes the top 1 percent with speculative windfalls.

    Soon Americans stopped saving and consumed everything they earned and all they could borrow. The Asians, burned by their own 1997 financial crisis, were happy to oblige us. They — China and Japan above all — accumulated huge dollar reserves, transforming their central banks into a string of monetary roach motels where sovereign debt goes in but never comes out. We’ve been living on borrowed time — and spending Asians’ borrowed dimes.

    This dynamic reinforced the Reaganite shibboleth that “deficits don’t matter” and the fact that nearly $5 trillion of the nation’s $12 trillion in “publicly held” debt is actually sequestered in the vaults of central banks. The destruction of fiscal rectitude under Ronald Reagan — one reason I resigned as his budget chief in 1985 — was the greatest of his many dramatic acts. It created a template for the Republicans’ utter abandonment of the balanced-budget policies of Calvin Coolidge and allowed George W. Bush to dive into the deep end, bankrupting the nation through two misbegotten and unfinanced wars, a giant expansion of Medicare and a tax-cutting spree for the wealthy that turned K Street lobbyists into the de facto office of national tax policy. In effect, the G.O.P. embraced Keynesianism — for the wealthy.

    THE state-wreck ahead is a far cry from the “Great Moderation” proclaimed in 2004 by Mr. Bernanke, who predicted that prosperity would be everlasting because the Fed had tamed the business cycle and, as late as March 2007, testified that the impact of the subprime meltdown “seems likely to be contained.” Instead of moderation, what’s at hand is a Great Deformation, arising from a rogue central bank that has abetted the Wall Street casino, crucified savers on a cross of zero interest rates and fueled a global commodity bubble that erodes Main Street living standards through rising food and energy prices — a form of inflation that the Fed fecklessly disregards in calculating inflation.

    These policies have brought America to an end-stage metastasis. The way out would be so radical it can’t happen. It would necessitate a sweeping divorce of the state and the market economy. It would require a renunciation of crony capitalism and its first cousin: Keynesian economics in all its forms. The state would need to get out of the business of imperial hubris, economic uplift and social insurance and shift its focus to managing and financing an effective, affordable, means-tested safety net.

    The United States is broke — fiscally, morally, intellectually — and the Fed has incited a global currency war (Japan just signed up, the Brazilians and Chinese are angry, and the German-dominated euro zone is crumbling) that will soon overwhelm it. When the latest bubble pops, there will be nothing to stop the collapse. If this sounds like advice to get out of the markets and hide out in cash, it is.

     
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    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    David Stockman can defend conservative economics until he's blue in the face, but the truth is conservative fiscal policies of the last 50 years is excatly why we are where we are. Not Keneysian economics. Kenseyian economics brought us out of the great depression.

    If the national debt is so important, why would we listen to Stockman?  On his watch, the debt tripled.  Stockman's trickle down malarky made no sense in 1981, and it makes no sense today.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to UserName99's comment:

     

    David Stockman can defend conservative economics until he's blue in the face, but the truth is conservative fiscal policies of the last 50 years is excatly why we are where we are. Not Keneysian economics. Kenseyian economics brought us out of the great depression.

    If the national debt is so important, why would we listen to Stockman?  On his watch, the debt tripled.  Stockman's trickle down malarky made no sense in 1981, and it makes no sense today.

     



    No, No, No, a thousand times no.  Keynsian economics did not bring us out of the great depression.  Here, read this, follow the link.  The truth is at  hand.

     

     

    "Now, economists  Steven Horwitz and Michael J. McPhillips in a new paper, The Reality of the Wartime Economy: More Historical Evidence, on Whether World War Il Ended the Great Depression have taken Higgs' pioneer work further. From the abstract of their new paper:

    In response to contemporary arguments that the expenditures associated with World War II were a major factor in ending the Great Depression and should therefore be imitated today, we offer historical evidence to suggest that the wartime economy was hardly a model of success in the eyes of most Americans. Expanding on Robert Higgs’ criticisms of the ability of conventional macroeconomic data to tell the real story, we examine newspapers, diaries, and other primary source material to reveal the retrogression in living standards in the US during the war. Our investigation suggests that wartime prosperity is largely a myth and hardly a model for recovery from the Great Recession.


    The full paper can be downloaded here."

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to UserName99's comment:

    David Stockman can defend conservative economics until he's blue in the face, but the truth is conservative fiscal policies of the last 50 years is excatly why we are where we are. Not Keneysian economics. Kenseyian economics brought us out of the great depression.

    If the national debt is so important, why would we listen to Stockman?  On his watch, the debt tripled.  Stockman's trickle down malarky made no sense in 1981, and it makes no sense today.



    So now it's 50 years? A week or so back you were saying it was the last 30 years. Can only imagine what it will be up to in a week or so...

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    If you read the article he clearly says he resigned his appointment with Reagan and strongly disagreed with the Bush prescription drug plan for seniors and medicare.

    Blaming conservatives for the last 50 years is ignorant since before 92 democrats controlled congress for the previous 30 years!

    Washington politicians depend on voters defending "their" party and blaming the other party for everything to shield themselves!

    They are ALL in it together (with very few exceptions) and could not care less about YOU or your values or well being!

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    If you read the article he clearly says he resigned his appointment with Reagan and strongly disagreed with the Bush prescription drug plan for seniors and medicare.

    Blaming conservatives for the last 50 years is ignorant since before 92 democrats controlled congress for the previous 30 years!

    Washington politicians depend on voters defending "their" party and blaming the other party for everything to shield themselves!

    They are ALL in it together (with very few exceptions) and could not care less about YOU or your values or well being!

     



    For the left in general, and democrats in specific, this argument is always about the past.  you poit out how their view of the past is incorrect, and you are a hater.

    But, that aside, ever notice how much the left tries to support their arguments with these very broad-brush arguments anchored in blaming the past?  IT is as if they know their arguments for where they want to go, i.e. , the future, are so bogus even they won't use them.

    Always some event in the past...

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from UserName99. Show UserName99's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to UserName99's comment:

     

    David Stockman can defend conservative economics until he's blue in the face, but the truth is conservative fiscal policies of the last 50 years is excatly why we are where we are. Not Keneysian economics. Kenseyian economics brought us out of the great depression.

    If the national debt is so important, why would we listen to Stockman?  On his watch, the debt tripled.  Stockman's trickle down malarky made no sense in 1981, and it makes no sense today.

     



    No, No, No, a thousand times no.  Keynsian economics did not bring us out of the great depression.  Here, read this, follow the link.  The truth is at  hand.

     




     

    You are out of your mind and your cracker-jack box economists are too. 

    WW2 was the biggest government stimulus of all time.  It created demand for existing and entirely new industries. 

    The depression ended not simply because the military needed more materiel, but because the government used wartime demand to transform what America made. Financing all those investments led the country out of the depression and established new and important sectors for the economy.....aerospace, communications, you name it.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     
    For the left in general, and democrats in specific, this argument is always about the past.  you poit out how their view of the past is incorrect, and you are a hater.

     

    But, that aside, ever notice how much the left tries to support their arguments with these very broad-brush arguments anchored in blaming the past?  IT is as if they know their arguments for where they want to go, i.e. , the future, are so bogus even they won't use them.

    Always some event in the past...




    The "Left" blames the "right" and the "right" blames the "left".

    Its the reason we have such an established and sytematic problem of greed and corruption in Washington. Both side know the country is so divided all they need to do to have a good shot at maintaining power is blame the other side! Incumbants are extremely hard to beat with this system in this divided country!

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to UserName99's comment:

     

    In response to skeeter20's comment:

     

    In response to UserName99's comment:

     

    David Stockman can defend conservative economics until he's blue in the face, but the truth is conservative fiscal policies of the last 50 years is excatly why we are where we are. Not Keneysian economics. Kenseyian economics brought us out of the great depression.

    If the national debt is so important, why would we listen to Stockman?  On his watch, the debt tripled.  Stockman's trickle down malarky made no sense in 1981, and it makes no sense today.

     



    No, No, No, a thousand times no.  Keynsian economics did not bring us out of the great depression.  Here, read this, follow the link.  The truth is at  hand.

     




     

    You are out of your mind and your cracker-jack box economists are too. 

    WW2 was the biggest government stimulus of all time.  It created demand for existing and entirely new industries. 

    The depression ended not simply because the military needed more materiel, but because the government used wartime demand to transform what America made. Financing all those investments led the country out of the depression and established new and important sectors for the economy.....aerospace, communications, you name it.

     

     

    I am sorry that your mind is closed to opinions other than those that fit your narrow ideology.

    You need to read up more.  in the very least, it is debatable. 

    The paper I attached tells a different story.

    Sorry you are so closed minded.

    Oh, and Stockman is a liberal.  Look him up.  Pro-choice, end Bush tax cuts, tax cap gains as income, everything about him reads like the typcial liberal on this board.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    NY Times ran four pages of this over the weekend. Not sure if it was the full article.

    His basic position is that every single developped country is doomed to failure, even China. And he doesn't offer any solutions, just a couple one-liner abstractions about the way things should be.



    I never liked stockman, liberal to the core, but he is the consummate washington insider, so, the book ought to be an interesting read.

    BTW:  I don't understand why the left holds him in such contempt, as he seems to follow all the key social and fiscal tenets of the left.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    If you read the article he clearly says he resigned his appointment with Reagan and strongly disagreed with the Bush prescription drug plan for seniors and medicare.

    Blaming conservatives for the last 50 years is ignorant since before 92 democrats controlled congress for the previous 30 years!

    Washington politicians depend on voters defending "their" party and blaming the other party for everything to shield themselves!

    They are ALL in it together (with very few exceptions) and could not care less about YOU or your values or well being!

     

     




     

    But your article blames the Republicans, explicitly and most vociferously:

    This dynamic reinforced the Reaganite shibboleth that “deficits don’t matter” and the fact that nearly $5 trillion of the nation’s $12 trillion in “publicly held” debt is actually sequestered in the vaults of central banks. The destruction of fiscal rectitude under Ronald Reagan — one reason I resigned as his budget chief in 1985 — was the greatest of his many dramatic acts. It created a template for the Republicans’ utter abandonment of the balanced-budget policies of Calvin Coolidge and allowed George W. Bush to dive into the deep end, bankrupting the nation through two misbegotten and unfinanced wars, a giant expansion of Medicare and a tax-cutting spree for the wealthy that turned K Street lobbyists into the de facto office of national tax policy. In effect, the G.O.P. embraced Keynesianism — for the wealthy.

     



    Does it really matter if it is Republican or Democrat?  Is it not the policy and it's effect that matteres/mattered?

     

    As far as stockman's quotes, interesting, and very supportive of what most progressives here would want.  But, stockman is also showing an liberal ideologial bent.  The very first sentence starts with mentioning Reagan, goes to the current problem under Obama, and fails to mention him!

    I find it hard to beleive that this book is anything other than an interesting read, but likely a highly partisan/progressive read.  And all the progressive will tell us how Stockman is a Republcian.  Sigh.  he's a liberal progressive who happens to be in the republican party.

    However, at least part of his recommendation is right up my alley:  Getth e government out of providing social security and medicare.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    NY Times ran four pages of this over the weekend. Not sure if it was the full article.

    His basic position is that every single developped country is doomed to failure, even China. And he doesn't offer any solutions, just a couple one-liner abstractions about the way things should be.



    His whole synopsis is that it too late and leaders do not have the courage/integrity to admit it. face it, and make the radical changes that would be needed to stop it.

    It's to the point where to "save" the globe from financial catastrophy means govt's will have to make the decisions that will add severe economic hardship and turmoil to large percentages of the population; they will have to do this while facing uprisings, violent demonstrations and condemnation; which means most in govt (ours at least) do not have what it takes and will continue like they have the past 25 years and kick it on down the road!

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    But your article blames the Republicans, explicitly and most vociferously:

    This dynamic reinforced the Reaganite shibboleth that “deficits don’t matter” and the fact that nearly $5 trillion of the nation’s $12 trillion in “publicly held” debt is actually sequestered in the vaults of central banks. The destruction of fiscal rectitude under Ronald Reagan — one reason I resigned as his budget chief in 1985 — was the greatest of his many dramatic acts. It created a template for the Republicans’ utter abandonment of the balanced-budget policies of Calvin Coolidge and allowed George W. Bush to dive into the deep end, bankrupting the nation through two misbegotten and unfinanced wars, a giant expansion of Medicare and a tax-cutting spree for the wealthy that turned K Street lobbyists into the de facto office of national tax policy. In effect, the G.O.P. embraced Keynesianism — for the wealthy.



    Its noy "my" article and the author is more liberal than conservative. He does see thngs clearly and he puts the blame squarely at the feet of GOVERNMENT not just republicans and not just dems but, all of them who have been watching this develop over the last decade and were too self consumed, greedy and lacking the proper character to do anything about it. 

    Its plain to see if, you just pay attention.

    There are two kinds of people in Washington; insiders and outsiders and the insiders have the VAST majority and they will slander, ruin and crush any outsider that tries to point out the truth!

     

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    over the last decade

    In the full article, he attaches the first blame to FDR's domestic programs and runs from there.

     



    Noting that they started under FDR is not really blaming him for the corruption that has riddled the programs since.

     

    I meant over the last 2 decades which is when everyone started really understanding the problem of a govt that raided the SS trust fund and put money alotted for just about every program up for grabs by greedy corrupt politicians!

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    over the last decade

    In the full article, he attaches the first blame to FDR's domestic programs and runs from there.

     



    Noting that they started under FDR is not really blaming him for the corruption that has riddled the programs since.

     

    I meant over the last 2 decades which is when everyone started really understanding the problem of a govt that raided the SS trust fund and put money alotted for just about every program up for grabs by greedy corrupt politicians!

    The bankruptcy and borrowing is on steroids now!




     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Sistersledge. Show Sistersledge's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    .

     
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  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from DirtyWaterLover. Show DirtyWaterLover's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    The sky is falling, the sky is falling.

    Spring is finally here and what do the nutties focus on?  Impending doom and gloom.  5 years ago they were all predicting we'd be a Muslim nation by now.   And now its the impending crash of the economy.  Where were all the predictors of economic collapse when W was in office?

    The country is fine as long as we keep the republicans out of the White House.  We'd be more than fine if the dems could regain control of the house.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from FortySixAndTwo. Show FortySixAndTwo's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to DirtyWaterLover's comment:

     

    The country is fine as long as we keep the republicans out of the White House.  We'd be more than fine if the dems could regain control of the house.



    Talk about partisan. No govt is good when one party controls WH, Senate, and House. Govt needs balance. I'm surprised you don't get that

     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to tvoter's comment:

     

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    In response to tvoter's comment:

    But your article blames the Republicans, explicitly and most vociferously:

    This dynamic reinforced the Reaganite shibboleth that “deficits don’t matter” and the fact that nearly $5 trillion of the nation’s $12 trillion in “publicly held” debt is actually sequestered in the vaults of central banks. The destruction of fiscal rectitude under Ronald Reagan — one reason I resigned as his budget chief in 1985 — was the greatest of his many dramatic acts. It created a template for the Republicans’ utter abandonment of the balanced-budget policies of Calvin Coolidge and allowed George W. Bush to dive into the deep end, bankrupting the nation through two misbegotten and unfinanced wars, a giant expansion of Medicare and a tax-cutting spree for the wealthy that turned K Street lobbyists into the de facto office of national tax policy. In effect, the G.O.P. embraced Keynesianism — for the wealthy.

     



    Its noy "my" article and the author is more liberal than conservative. He does see thngs clearly and he puts the blame squarely at the feet of GOVERNMENT not just republicans and not just dems but, all of them who have been watching this develop over the last decade and were too self consumed, greedy and lacking the proper character to do anything about it. 

     

    Its plain to see if, you just pay attention.

    There are two kinds of people in Washington; insiders and outsiders and the insiders have the VAST majority and they will slander, ruin and crush any outsider that tries to point out the truth!

     

     




    The point of my post was that you chided someone for making an assumption based on party politics yet the article you posted only mentioned one party being at fault.

     

    You can't go after someone for forming an opinion based on your post when your post states that position explicitly.

    So either get better at sourcing your information or eat crow for what you posted.



    Well, Stockman certainly seems to go out of his way to only mention republicans, and avoid mentioning democrats.  Maybe the entire book, not the excerpts pulled out by the press may tell a different stroy.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from tvoter. Show tvoter's posts

    Re: Our country is headed for a severe crash and it doesnt matter who we blame at this point!!

    In response to skeeter20's comment:


    Well, Stockman certainly seems to go out of his way to only mention republicans, and avoid mentioning democrats.  Maybe the entire book, not the excerpts pulled out by the press may tell a different stroy.




    I think he is trying to be apolitical

     

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