Pastor Beck?

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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]Leftwing moonbats last week: "What about our principles, the First Amendment and freedom of religion? Those against the mosque are trashing the Constitution". This week: "Beck is a kook with all this bringing God back to America. When he gets up and talks about Jesus I get nervous." One week they love religion when it is an anti-American muslim, the next they are afraid of it when it is an American conservative.
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]

    The issue is the involvement of the state in religous issues.  It should protect religious believers in their rights, but it should not be used as a tool to advance one belief at the expense of others. Do you disagree with this basic American legal principle? 
     
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    [QUOTE]its not that at all the mosque is about religious freedom /> />>  Bingo! beck is about rhetoric and no answers, none whatsoever...he claims to be an entertainer...yet only focuses on politics...so he uses that political divisiveness and religious fervor to bring contempt against the current leadership />>>GASP!  Can you imagine such a thing?  Duh!  My dad did it for a living 45 years ago.  This is such a new concept!!!!  What we need is the Fairness Doctrine, and F that 1st amendment thingy, and I mean ALL of it (that "free exercise thereof", bit is SO in conveeeeeeeeeenient)
    Posted by GreginMeffa[/QUOTE]
    he can say whatever he pleases...doesnt make him right...nor does lessen the fact that his answer to problems is more rhetoric upon more rhetoric with a little propaganda on the side next to the mashed potatoes
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    One is free to say what they will and one is free to point at that man and laugh.
     
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    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pastor Beck? : Of course I do. There is/was no state interference with the mosque project in NYC. Those that are against th ebuilding of the mosque are exercising their right of free speech in an attempt to persuade those with the plans to build the mosque to change their plans. That is not the state acting to prevent the mosque from being built. Otherwise, the leftwingers appear as fearful of Christians as they claim Christians are of muslims that want to build that mosque.
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]

    There is state involvement in the mosque project: it is protecting religious and property rights against the emotions, politics and bigotry of those that oppose it.  And I don't think you will find any "leftwinger" seeking to close down a Christian church for being in the "wrong" place and believing in the "wrong" things.
     
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    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pastor Beck? : All the ideals of J.F.K. are being supported by the Democrats right now. 1.  Doing "God's work", can easily be defined as seeking social justice. 2.  Seeking liberty internationally: look no further than to the efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. 3.  The concept of individual inalienable rights are a foundational principle of the nation. 4.  And as I recall new programs to serve the needs of the nation were proposed by Obama and vehemently opposed by conservatives as a "socialist plot" to corrupt the youth of America. And Beck is obviously a divider.  Calling Obama out as a racist and not a real Christian is pretty darn divisive.  So is labeling all liberals as progressive/socialist/fascists engaged in subverting the nation from its proper "God-given" path.  The man is a buffoon.  It is amazing that people take him seriously.
    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pastor Beck? : There are no religious rights in play here. Muslims are free to practice their religion and that is hardly at stake. There are over 100 mosques in NYC so I hardly think that is at risk. I can't think of any circumstances where anyone has opposed the building of a Christian as this mosque is being opposed. But I certainly see leftwingers aggressively limit the rights of Christians protesting abortion. I have also seen leftwingers look the other way a mosque in Boston was built with public money. So leftwingers are hardly pure as the driven snow when it comes to respecting separation of church and state and their tolerance for other views.
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]

    F U you stupid redneck. YOu are ignorant as sh!T
     
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    Very good spin....#1 You can interpret as you like, 'Doing God's work is Social Justice', but this to me is a perversion of the term itself...Is it the Government role to be God, that this is to come? Or rather should it come from the individual through God's grace, rather than mandated by the Government of Men?

     The term 'Social Justice' should not come from the State/Government, as above. it should come first to us individually through God...for the State is not God Almighty, but of Men as I so stated above.

    How ironic that the many who apposed Iraq initially, and also now appose Afganistan with mandating a pullout date now also claim to bring liberty internationally?...Do you honestly think this will all work out well?....How are we doing with Iran as they continue to perhapse build a bomb and threaten to wipe another country off the face of the map?....Nothing working so far what would you do if Israel
    ...wait until that bomb is on its way?

    How can Beck especially be a divider touting Faith, Hope, and charity ...and to bring back 'God' into our lives, also to honor both citizens and our military?
    When did Glenn Beck state Obama was not a 'real' Christian
    ...What is a real Christian?
    I would back off somewhat on the term Socialism....for you cannot deny that if takeovers of GM, Financial Institutions, School Loans and a National Health Plan to name but a few are not dam close to making a quasi socialistic case.
    ..something is missing.
    I will not respond to the racial issue...other than to say there has been times when President Obama did act fast in condemming the Cambridge Police of acting stupidly on National TV without knowing all the facts. Also, in not even reading Arizona's 1070 Bill which mirrors existing Federal Immigration Laws....He has been silent about the racial overtones coming from the NAACP and The Black Panthers..."kill the cracker babies"...Where is he when it is time to speak out against these injustices?...Silence.
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    'My' reply to Reubenhop above who stated:
     All the ideals of J.F.K. are being supported by the Democrats right now. 1.  Doing "God's work", can easily be defined as seeking social justice. 2.  Seeking liberty internationally: look no further than to the efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan. 3.  The concept of individual inalienable rights are a foundational principle of the nation. 4.  And as I recall new programs to serve the needs of the nation were proposed by Obama and vehemently opposed by conservatives as a "socialist plot" to corrupt the youth of America. And Beck is obviously a divider.  Calling Obama out as a racist and not a real Christian is pretty darn divisive.  So is labeling all liberals as progressive/socialist/fascists engaged in su

    My Reply:
    Very good spin....#1 You can interpret as you like, 'Doing God's work is Social Justice', but this to me is a perversion of the term itself...Is it the Government role to be God, that this is to come? Or rather should it come from the individual through God's grace, rather than mandated by the Government of Men?
    ...Re-Read the Declaration of Independance again.

     The term 'Social Justice' should not come from the State/Government, as above. it should come first to us individually through God...for the State is not God Almighty, but of Men as I so stated above.

    How ironic that the many who apposed Iraq initially, and also now appose Afganistan with mandating a pullout date now also claim to bring liberty internationally? Do you honestly think this will all work out well?....How are we doing with Iran as they continue to perhapse build a bomb and threaten to wipe another country off the face of the map? Nothing working so far. What would you do if Israel, wait until that bomb is on its way?

    How can Beck especially be a divider touting Faith, Hope, and charity ...and to bring back 'God' into our lives, also to honor both citizens and our military?
    When did Glenn Beck state Obama was not a 'real' Christian
    ...What is a real Christian?
    I would back off somewhat on the term Socialism....for you cannot deny that if takeovers of GM, Financial Institutions, School Loans and a National Health Plan to name but a few are not dam close to making a quasi socialistic case.
    ..something is missing.
    I will not respond to the racial issue...other than to say there has been times when President Obama did act fast in condemming the Cambridge Police of acting stupidly on National TV without knowing all the facts. Also, in not even reading Arizona's 1070 Bill which mirrors existing Federal Immigration Laws....He has been silent about the racial overtones coming from the NAACP and The Black Panthers..."kill the cracker babies"...Where is he when it is time to speak out against these injustices?...Silence.


    Avellino/Campagna



     
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pastor Beck? : I hope that makes you feel better. Don't forget to use a napkin to wipe the foam from around your mouth like your mother taught you.
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]

    Much better. Thank you :)
     
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    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pastor Beck? : You have identified the problem and got it completely backwards.  The issue is that fundamentalist Christians are trying to "bring back God" to our politics and humanists (people that respect our secular and rationalist ideals) oppose this.  Religion is being chased from the public square ONLY when it is being supported by the government.  Apparently Beck is looking to ally with this aspect of social conservatism along with the red-baiting political/fiscal issues he raises.  But, he is such a blowhard: it is hard to pin down what he is actually saying.  "Blunt" or just plain dull?  I would wager he makes up much of what he says as he goes along and cares more for emotional connection than making a rational argument.


    Posted by Reubenhop[/QUOTE]Ruben. 

    I think it is you who have it backawards.  Where on Earth do you get that the government is establishing a religion by Beck having a rally?  A bit jumpy?


    By you standard, every humanist idea is gold, and every religous inspired idea is coal.  I'll take the coal.
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    I think all you progressives think you can drive religion out of the public square with claims that we are forcing it down your throats, but, wait, what are all these humanist principles being forced dowen our throats?  Gay marriage? Nationalized health care?

    I think you progressives know the power of God and don't want the competition.  That's why your scream at the very mention of god in the public square.
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pastor Beck? : Ruben.  I think it is you who have it backawards.  Where on Earth do you get that the government is establishing a religion by Beck having a rally?  A bit jumpy? By you standard, every humanist idea is gold, and every religous inspired idea is coal.  I'll take the coal.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    Beck wants to make the government a theocracy. clear as day. He will enslave us to the church of mormon. No other possible way to look at it. There are only two kinds of governments. Secular governments and theocracy. Everything else is in transition from one to the other.
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]I think all you progressives think you can drive religion out of the public square with claims that we are forcing it down your throats, but, wait, what are all these humanist principles being forced dowen our throats?  Gay marriage? Nationalized health care? I think you progressives know the power of God and don't want the competition.  That's why your scream at the very mention of god in the public square.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    What do you mean by religion at the public square? it is already on our money and at our prayer breakfasts. What more do you want?
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]I think all you progressives think you can drive religion out of the public square with claims that we are forcing it down your throats, but, wait, what are all these humanist principles being forced dowen our throats?  Gay marriage? Nationalized health care? I think you progressives know the power of God and don't want the competition.  That's why your scream at the very mention of god in the public square.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    Tell us what you mean by bringing religion back tot he public square. It is already here /> what else do you want?
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    Gay marriage, healthcare, prohibition of slavery, suffrage.  Yeah, craziness.
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pastor Beck? : You agree then that the state is not interfering with muslims practicing their religion. There are no religious rights in play here. Muslims are free to practice their religion and that is hardly at stake. There are over 100 mosques in NYC so I hardly think that is at risk. I can't think of any circumstances where anyone has opposed the building of a Christian as this mosque is being opposed. But I certainly see leftwingers aggressively limit the rights of Christians protesting abortion. I have also seen leftwingers look the other way a mosque in Boston was built with public money. So leftwingers are hardly pure as the driven snow when it comes to respecting separation of church and state and their tolerance for other views.
    Posted by Newtster[/QUOTE]

    There are no relgious rights in play here?  Huh?  That is the express reason they cannot be denied the ability to build their center.  If this was a democratic decision
    it would be denied based on the polls on its popularity.  And the rights of abortion protestors (actually more speech than religion) are hardly "aggressively" limited.  There are, of course, rights of privacy in play too so enforcing a distance provision between the two sides seems quite rational so both sets of rights can be protected.  Lastly, I do not support any government money being given to any religious enterprise. 
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Pastor Beck? : Ruben.  I think it is you who have it backawards.  Where on Earth do you get that the government is establishing a religion by Beck having a rally?  A bit jumpy? By you standard, every humanist idea is gold, and every religous inspired idea is coal.  I'll take the coal.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]

    I am not sure what Beck has in (his admittedly small) mind.  But his "restore America through a return to God" theme suggests an embrace of the social conservatism of Evangelical Christian types that have allied with the Right in the past.  I distrust people who try to base public policy on faith in "sacred" words written a millenium ago.  We are a secular society after all.  This is not to say that religion is all "coal".  It has certainly had some marvelous accomplishments... and some truly dreadful failures.  Rational approaches are the best bet.  Faith is a variable but we all have the capacity for reason.  Except Beck and his minions, of course.
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]Very good spin....#1 You can interpret as you like, 'Doing God's work is Social Justice', but this to me is a perversion of the term itself...Is it the Government role to be God, that this is to come? Or rather should it come from the individual through God's grace, rather than mandated by the Government of Men?  The term 'Social Justice' should not come from the State/Government, as above. it should come first to us individually through God...for the State is not God Almighty, but of Men as I so stated above. How ironic that the many who apposed Iraq initially, and also now appose Afganistan with mandating a pullout date now also claim to bring liberty internationally?...Do you honestly think this will all work out well?....How are we doing with Iran as they continue to perhapse build a bomb and threaten to wipe another country off the face of the map?....Nothing working so far what would you do if Israel ...wait until that bomb is on its way? How can Beck especially be a divider touting Faith, Hope, and charity ...and to bring back 'God' into our lives, also to honor both citizens and our military? When did Glenn Beck state Obama was not a 'real' Christian ...What is a real Christian? I would back off somewhat on the term Socialism....for you cannot deny that if takeovers of GM, Financial Institutions, School Loans and a National Health Plan to name but a few are not dam close to making a quasi socialistic case. ..something is missing. I will not respond to the racial issue...other than to say there has been times when President Obama did act fast in condemming the Cambridge Police of acting stupidly on National TV without knowing all the facts. Also, in not even reading Arizona's 1070 Bill which mirrors existing Federal Immigration Laws....He has been silent about the racial overtones coming from the NAACP and The Black Panthers..."kill the cracker babies"...Where is he when it is time to speak out against these injustices?...Silence.
    Posted by SalveteAmici[/QUOTE]

    The concept of Social Justice can easily be connected to the ideas of the D.O.I.  Government is created to protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Social programs are created expressly to address the protection of those rights (How can you be happy if you are uneducated, destitute or sick?).  There is a long history of social programs often led by religious people to use government to rectify flaws in the social fabric.  The 1830s had a number of these movements such as education reform, women's rights and abolitionism.  More recently, Martin Luther King ( a preacher) explictly framed the struggle for civil rights in religious terms.

    And Beck explicitly said that Obama had a suspect religion.  This quote was taken a short time after his God Rally: "You see, it's all about victims and victimhood; oppressors and the oppressed; reparations, not repentance; collectivism, not individual salvation. I don't know what that is, other than it's not Muslim, it's not Christian. It's a perversion of the gospel of Jesus Christ as most Christians know it."
     
    And that is from a guy who is a Mormon!  It's just another foray on his part to show that Obama and his progressive/socialist/fascist cabal are not "real" Americans and there is a need to "restore" the country to some bygone era that exists only in his imagination.
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    Ruben, again, I can't respoind dirtectly to your posts,so:

    I understand whatyou are saying about the evangelicals.  I guess you are more comfortable with a humanist society based on prinicple cooked up by a couple of cranky college professors about 100 years ago, who were communists?

    There is nothing wrong with discussion of christian ideas in the public square.  god know we have to listen to you humanists prattle on about how we are taking over government, and we certainly seem to have no problem with muslims insisting on sharia lawwithin financial systems.  But, when it comes to common sense ideas from God, these are to be banned.

    Humanism is exacxtly the opposite of its name.  It is anti-human, and relegates god's creation of a mechanical device, of chemical construct, nothing special, and established rules to govern the interaction of these water-filled sacks of humanity.  that's secular anti-humanism.
     
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    Re: Pastor Beck?

    In Response to Re: Pastor Beck?:
    [QUOTE]I think all you progressives think you can drive religion out of the public square with claims that we are forcing it down your throats, but, wait, what are all these humanist principles being forced dowen our throats?  Gay marriage? Nationalized health care? I think you progressives know the power of God and don't want the competition.  That's why your scream at the very mention of god in the public square.
    Posted by skeeter20[/QUOTE]
    well the human mind created god...so progressives are essentially competing with superstitious people? well thats not much of a competition at all
     

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