The most dangerous man in Europe

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    The most dangerous man in Europe

    according to Der Spiegel it's Beppe Grillo. It seems fascism is experiencing something of a revival over there, I had to laugh though when I saw this bit:

     

    It is easily overlooked nowadays, but fascism at its heart was a leftist movement. Mussolini never made a secret of his orgins: "I am and always will be a socialist. My convictions will never change. They are implanted into my bones," he told his comrades as they expelled him from the party at the outbreak of war in 1914 because of his pro-war stance. Farrell concludes that "Mussolini's fascism was black, Grillo's is green, but they both have a red heart."

     

    But then again, what do the Germans know about fascism, eh?

     

     
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    Re: The most dangerous man in Europe

    Sorry, forgot the link:

     

    http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/beppe-grillo-of-italy-is-the-most-dangerous-man-in-europe-a-889104.html

     
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    Re: The most dangerous man in Europe

    As the Who sang ... change it has to come .... we knew it all along

     
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    Re: The most dangerous man in Europe

    Ah, fascism is a right wing ideology, and not based socialism.  how do I know this?

    The Marxist/socialist professors told us so.

     
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    Re: The most dangerous man in Europe

    The tenets of fascism borrows from both left and right wing ideologies. 

    Italian fascists for example condemned homosexuality, pornography, birth control (but not condoms) and prostitution. 

    Fascists in Germany believed that homosexuality could be "cured" and cited studies that claimed to show homosexuality was a choice. 

    None of these are policies that American liberals support and today we see these same exact issues being used as wedges by American conservatives. 

    Italian fascists also grew the government.  The federal workforce doubled under mussolini.  American government has grown under both Dems and Reps so thats a wash in terms of left versus right, but we know that Italiy spent a lot of state money on social welfare programs.  Interestingly, neither the Italians nor Germans initiated these programs as a way of addressing social inequality.  Because fascists are vicious social darwinist thinkers the idea of a social net was off putting as it was seen as preserving the weakest members of society.  While the Italians and Germans had huge social programs those programs were set aside for the "deserving" members of society and often the most deserving were not minorities, women, homosexuals, or other "takers" if you will. 

    While American progressives support social programs, they do not support them in the way fascists have implemented them in the past.  

    Its curious that conservatives have spent a lot of time debating where fascism came from as opposed to how it was implemented and the policies that followed as a result.  Whether we are talking about the fascists in Spain, Italy or Germany the application of fascism as a political force doesn't resemble American liberalism. 

     
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    Re: The most dangerous man in Europe

    In response to DamainAllen's comment:

    The tenets of fascism borrows from both left and right wing ideologies. 

    Italian fascists for example condemned homosexuality, pornography, birth control (but not condoms) and prostitution. 

    Fascists in Germany believed that homosexuality could be "cured" and cited studies that claimed to show homosexuality was a choice. 

    None of these are policies that American liberals support and today we see these same exact issues being used as wedges by American conservatives. 

    Italian fascists also grew the government.  The federal workforce doubled under mussolini.  American government has grown under both Dems and Reps so thats a wash in terms of left versus right, but we know that Italiy spent a lot of state money on social welfare programs.  Interestingly, neither the Italians nor Germans initiated these programs as a way of addressing social inequality.  Because fascists are vicious social darwinist thinkers the idea of a social net was off putting as it was seen as preserving the weakest members of society.  While the Italians and Germans had huge social programs those programs were set aside for the "deserving" members of society and often the most deserving were not minorities, women, homosexuals, or other "takers" if you will. 

    While American progressives support social programs, they do not support them in the way fascists have implemented them in the past.  

    Its curious that conservatives have spent a lot of time debating where fascism came from as opposed to how it was implemented and the policies that followed as a result.  Whether we are talking about the fascists in Spain, Italy or Germany the application of fascism as a political force doesn't resemble American liberalism. 



    Not debating where fascism came from, not at all.

    just correcting the record. Fascism was a liberal idea. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: The most dangerous man in Europe

    WDYWN: If you equate a strong sense of patriotism and pride in country as "nationalism" then sure, that is strong on the right. The second point is a shared attribute amongst social conservatives and leftists, neither group of which I can identify with.


    Damain: Socialists are only for "liberal" social constructs when they are using them as a wedge against western civilization. Once they take charge they become so intolerant of any deviation that the usual result is the mass killing of all those who fail to conform to the party line.


    The point is that socialism, regardless of the ultimate form that it takes, is a leftist economic ideology, so talking about the social aspects of these economic systems just serves to confuse the issue.

     

    The bigger point is that Europe is growing fascist movements again. Be afraid, be very afraid.

     

     

     

     
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    Re: The most dangerous man in Europe

    Fortunately, I'm not aware of any European countries that have been completely taken over by Socialists (except perhaps Albania.) I was referring to the USSR, China, Cambodia, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, etc.

     

     
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    Re: The most dangerous man in Europe

    Both fascism and communism are the results of socialists taking their political theories to their logical virulent extremes.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The most dangerous man in Europe

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    Fascism often gets identified with the very far right because of:

    - Its typically exceedingly strong nationalist elements, and

    - Its government-down forced social engineering.

    The right in modern America contains both elements to some degree.

     

     

     

     



    As does the left. Example: Obamacare is social engineering.

    on the nationalist front, not an issue with the left here, but in places like Cuba, venezuala, nicuragua, nationalism is a very strong component of these leftisregime es.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: The most dangerous man in Europe

    In response to WhatDoYouWantNow's comment:

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    mOnce they take charge they become so intolerant of any deviation that the usual result is the mass killing of all those who fail to conform to the party line.



    That's fascism, not socialism.

     

    Or are you suggesting that all European countries have been carrying out genocides under the world's nose for the last seventy years?



    I think we are arguing what major branch of the tree fascism springs from.  It clearly springs from the socialist branch.

     

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