There Is No Debate About "Global Warming"

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from skeeter20. Show skeeter20's posts

    Re: There Is No Debate About

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
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    In response to skeeter20's comment:
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    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
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    In response to skeeter20's comment:
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    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
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    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

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    Like most debates there are differences in perspectives.

    Matty and our other friends on the left are urban or urban suburban dwellers so they have other transportation options (that thye like to have subsidized) and they can connect to natural gas in the streets while folks in the exurbs and beyond need cars to get to work, depend on oil to heat.

    As for recycling the exurbs do a much better job then in the urban areas.  My town has a pay by bag trash pickup and free single stream recycling, you can be sure that our recycling bin is full and our trash is limited.

     

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    We pay per barrel for our trash pickup. We typically have two kitchen barrel sized bags per week and our recycling bin is always filled and sometimes needing a second bin.

     

     

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    Curbside recycling is a joke.  It iexists in order to create yet another set of bribes. It is way more efficient to collect all the trash mixed, and separate at a recycling plant.

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    How is it more effiecient to sift through all garbage in order to pull out recycleable trash versus already having recycle trash separate???

    [/QUOTE]

    Have you ever seen a real recycling plant?  They are amazing.  raw trash goes in, bales of plastics, paper and metals come out the other end.  One example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_RWqgXcP_k

    Curbside shifts the labor to the consumer, AND sets up another set of hands for your tax dollar to pick up.  Most of these contracts work on minimums, whihc surprisingly are never met, so the city kicks in cash to make up the difference.  Oh, BTW: the recycled trash gets mixed in with the regular trash anyways.  Don't beleive me?

    http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/18850951/2012/06/21/boston-recyclables-being-dumped-into-trash-truck

     

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    This example of mismangement doesn't tell the story of a managed waste stream.

    Usually there are two separate trucks but the firm just got a new split stream truck with separate trash and recycling compartments.

    similar to this

    http://www.kannmfg.com/products/refuse/rlm/

     

    Voluntary recycling doesn't work if you still get free trash pick; after all where is the incentive to recycle, other than the right thing to do.

    But if you have a pay per bag system and free single stream recycling you have an incentive to reduce your trash volume.  My wife and I generate 1 pay 33 gal bag of trash per week at $1.50 per bag and a full bin of recycling.  So it costs me $78/yr for trash, if I was lazy it would cost me one or two times more.

    [/QUOTE]

    You are right about the incentives.  However, where is all this money we pay to the towns going if we also need to pay for trash pickup?  I get a little sick of forking over thousands of dollars in property tax and then having to fork out a seperate check for trash collection.

     
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  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: There Is No Debate About

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
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    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
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    In response to skeeter20's comment:
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    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:

    [/QUOTE]

    Like most debates there are differences in perspectives.

    Matty and our other friends on the left are urban or urban suburban dwellers so they have other transportation options (that thye like to have subsidized) and they can connect to natural gas in the streets while folks in the exurbs and beyond need cars to get to work, depend on oil to heat.

    As for recycling the exurbs do a much better job then in the urban areas.  My town has a pay by bag trash pickup and free single stream recycling, you can be sure that our recycling bin is full and our trash is limited.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    We pay per barrel for our trash pickup. We typically have two kitchen barrel sized bags per week and our recycling bin is always filled and sometimes needing a second bin.

     

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Curbside recycling is a joke.  It iexists in order to create yet another set of bribes. It is way more efficient to collect all the trash mixed, and separate at a recycling plant.

    [/QUOTE]

    How is it more effiecient to sift through all garbage in order to pull out recycleable trash versus already having recycle trash separate???

    [/QUOTE]

    Have you ever seen a real recycling plant?  They are amazing.  raw trash goes in, bales of plastics, paper and metals come out the other end.  One example:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_RWqgXcP_k

    Curbside shifts the labor to the consumer, AND sets up another set of hands for your tax dollar to pick up.  Most of these contracts work on minimums, whihc surprisingly are never met, so the city kicks in cash to make up the difference.  Oh, BTW: the recycled trash gets mixed in with the regular trash anyways.  Don't beleive me?

    http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/18850951/2012/06/21/boston-recyclables-being-dumped-into-trash-truck

     

    [/QUOTE]

    This example of mismangement doesn't tell the story of a managed waste stream.

    Usually there are two separate trucks but the firm just got a new split stream truck with separate trash and recycling compartments.

    similar to this

    http://www.kannmfg.com/products/refuse/rlm/

     

    Voluntary recycling doesn't work if you still get free trash pick; after all where is the incentive to recycle, other than the right thing to do.

    But if you have a pay per bag system and free single stream recycling you have an incentive to reduce your trash volume.  My wife and I generate 1 pay 33 gal bag of trash per week at $1.50 per bag and a full bin of recycling.  So it costs me $78/yr for trash, if I was lazy it would cost me one or two times more.

    [/QUOTE]

    You are right about the incentives.  However, where is all this money we pay to the towns going if we also need to pay for trash pickup?  I get a little sick of forking over thousands of dollars in property tax and then having to fork out a seperate check for trash collection.

    [/QUOTE]

    Trash pick up is no longer part of the tax rate, the town pays nothng, it is outsourced to the private industry.  So before the lazy guy down the street put out 4 bags of trash and I put out two and we paid the same through our taxes..

    Now I actually save money with my one bag of trash an one bin of recylced materials and the guy down the street can be lazy and pay more or get onbaord with recycling.  I no longer have to be concerned about the lazy guy down the street.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: There Is No Debate About

    In response to WhichOnesPink2's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    where is all this money we pay to the towns going if we also need to pay for trash pickup? 

    [/QUOTE]

    I think I just found some one dependent on his local government. 

    [/QUOTE]

    ba da bing

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: There Is No Debate About

    In response to skeeter20's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Yah, and shuffing around in sack cloth as serfs on the government plantation aint worth it wither.  Scr3w the gov't.

    [/QUOTE]

    Such witty repartee.

    I've seen chunks of asphalt with more coherence.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: There Is No Debate About

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Like most debates there are differences in perspectives.

    Matty and our other friends on the left are urban or urban suburban dwellers so they have other transportation options (that thye like to have subsidized) and they can connect to natural gas in the streets while folks in the exurbs and beyond need cars to get to work, depend on oil to heat.

    As for recycling the exurbs do a much better job then in the urban areas.  My town has a pay by bag trash pickup and free single stream recycling, you can be sure that our recycling bin is full and our trash is limited.

     [/QUOTE]


    Your persepective seems a bit provincial.  Proximity has little to do with having either a conscience or the sense of entitlement that some here do.

    Lots of exurban homes run on propane fuel - which is cleaner burning than oil.  Bio-fuels are a good option.  Wood/pellets are similar but at least semi-sustainable.

    And though it's true I live near a commuter rail stop, it's not that close to the city and, in any case, would not work for getting to my office.  I also travel quite a bit for work, so to make up for it, I carpool or work from home.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from massmoderateJoe. Show massmoderateJoe's posts

    Re: There Is No Debate About

    In response to MattyScornD's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to massmoderateJoe's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Like most debates there are differences in perspectives.

    Matty and our other friends on the left are urban or urban suburban dwellers so they have other transportation options (that thye like to have subsidized) and they can connect to natural gas in the streets while folks in the exurbs and beyond need cars to get to work, depend on oil to heat.

    As for recycling the exurbs do a much better job then in the urban areas.  My town has a pay by bag trash pickup and free single stream recycling, you can be sure that our recycling bin is full and our trash is limited.

     [/QUOTE]


    Your persepective seems a bit provincial.  Proximity has little to do with having either a conscience or the sense of entitlement that some here do.

    Lots of exurban homes run on propane fuel - which is cleaner burning than oil.  Bio-fuels are a good option.  Wood/pellets are similar but at least semi-sustainable.

    And though it's true I live near a commuter rail stop, it's not that close to the city and, in any case, would not work for getting to my office.  I also travel quite a bit for work, so to make up for it, I carpool or work from home.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    All politics is local.

    Solutions work when they are cost effective and there is an incentive for change.  

    Amount of fuel required to obtain one million Btu:

       

    Natural Gas

     

    10

    Therms

    per

    million Btu

                 

    Kerosene

     

    7.4

    Gallons

    per

    million Btu

                 

    Propane Gas (LP)

     

    11

    Gallons

    per

    million Btu

                 

    Electricity

     

    293

    KWH

    per

    million Btu

     

     

     

    So NStar rate of Natural gas is now 0.57/therm

    Propane ave NH is $3/gal

     

    So Natural Gas is $5.70/MBtu

    Propane is $33/MBtu

    Oil at $3.60/gal is $30.25/MBtu

    I'll stick with oil heat for now...................

     

    I car pool or take the bus when I can, but I keep crazy hours and travel so that doesn't work real well for me.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from MattyScornD. Show MattyScornD's posts

    Re: There Is No Debate About

    I believe you have to convert propane from gallons to cubic feet in order to compare properly with natural gas, since propane is burned in its gaseous form.  

    One caveat being that you can heat and cook and run your dryer and water heater on gas or propane.  An electric dryer alone is a huge energy hog (at least in the winter, when clotheslines aren't feasible).

    Point taken, though.  If more propane was distilled from natural gas than from crude oil, or if distribution was more streamlined, they might be more competitive.

    Biofuels are also worth looking into, as the conversion is minimal.

    One other problem I have with oil burners is the initial burst of heating required before it levels off, whereas with propane or gas, there is less of a ramp-up.

     

     

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