Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this "negotiation"?

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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    We know what they want: Dismantle, defund or delay ACA.

    What are they offering in return?

     




    I dunno Wally.  What do you think?  Maybe offering up this wonderful health care system to the Congressional staff?  I mean, with all you guys selling this so hard, I have got to believe that the staffers are real p1ssed off that they can't use the ACA the way the rest of the country is able to use it.

     
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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    We know what they want: Dismantle, defund or delay ACA.

    What are they offering in return?

     



    Senate democrats should have attached an assault weapons ban on the bill they sent back to the House in exchange for the one year delay.  Their heads would have exploded.

     
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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    Its hilarious that acc went to a "wingnut" publication for his comeback on the Congressional ACA isue. Any port in a storm, eh acc? 

    To answer the question posed in the OP: the HoR is offering to withdraw the use of it's political clout in order to bring the Senate and POTUS to the table for the negotiations that they were denied when obamacare was just a bill and the Democrats controlled both legislative houses.

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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    Its hilarious that acc went to a "wingnut" publication for his comeback on the Congressional ACA isue. Any port in a storm, eh acc? 

    To answer the question posed in the OP: the HoR is offering to withdraw the use of it's political clout in order to bring the Senate and POTUS to the table for the negotiations that they were denied when obamacare was just a bill and the Democrats controlled both legislative houses.=




     

    MMm....right...

     

    So rushing the country to a military conflict on uncompletely verified intelligence should be all cool then, right?

     

    I mean...  nobody criticized libya, syria, or really any intervention of Obama's...no matter how precedented and no matter how much more limited than the interventions they defended...right?

     

     

     

     
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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    um, okay.

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    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    Who cares? Obama has said he is not negotiating.

     

     
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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

    Who cares? Obama has said he is not negotiating.

     



    True dat.

    He refuses to even entertain giving the people the same kinds of exemptions that he personally and illegally has given to big business. He refuses to consider a delay that would benefit the implementation of a complex law that the government isn't ready to implement. And the putative reason given is that "we do not negotiate with terrorists?" Are you kidding me? This is surreal. In what sane world does the leader of a democratic republic refuse to talk to the opposition?

    What we have here is a massive failure of leadership. What we have here is an arrogant and childish political party that cares more about the agrandizement of power than they do the people that they purport to represent.

     
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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    acc, you should go back to the NRO for all of your talking points. At least then someone might pay attention to you which, in the end, is what you're really pining for. Isn't it?

     

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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    In response to UserName9's comment:

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    [QUOTE]

     

    We know what they want: Dismantle, defund or delay ACA.

    What are they offering in return?

     

     



    Senate democrats should have attached an assault weapons ban on the bill they sent back to the House in exchange for the one year delay.  Their heads would have exploded.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Hey,  the 2nd amendment is settled law.  The Supreme Court upheld it as an individual right.  Get over it.

    (oh, the irony)

     
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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

     

    As usual, you shoot down a wingnut talking point with facts, from their own echo chambers no less, and the next sound you hear is ..... crickets.

     



    As ususal, here's the point you, and the liberal press, are missing:

    From the article:

    "In the private sector, some of the savings from ending employer plans can go to higher wages, which employees can use to buy insurance from the exchanges. (Though that contribution will probably be after-tax earnings, rather than the pre-tax premium contributions employers make now.) "

     

     

    People being tossed ungraciously into the exchanges are not receiving $7,500 to $10,000 from their employers in order to go into the exchanges, let alone consider it tax free, let alone gettting raises.  They, for the most part are recieving nothing, the goose egg.

    I have gone through the math on having to pay forthe exhanges with taxed dollars, which is where many of these people are ending up.  

    So, to summarize the MINOR point you missed:  They are not only NOT receiving contributions from their employees, they are also paying for the exchanges with post tax dollars.  This is a BIG burden in comparison to  the pre-Obamacare years, and NONE OF THIS IS BEING FELT BY THE POLTICIANS.  LEt the politicians use the system the way is was legislated.

     
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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    They aren't offering anything, therefore there is nothing to "negotiate".  Further, real negotiations require that the participants act in good faith.  We've seen this tactic deployed by the GOP before.  They did it with the debt ceiling and other instances.  the GOP has recognized that it cannot get certain legislative priorities they want through the legislative process, so they have actively obstructed legislation, appointments, and budgets using each as leverage to extract political gains.  Hence the "hostage taking" rhetoric that everyone recognizes is apt and very accurate.  18 times the House refused to convene a committee with the Senate to negotiate budget matters, then all of a sudden with a couple hours to spare Boehner is open to meeting?  Nevermind that meeting would have nothing to do with the CR that was on the table.  The House GOP acts in bad faith, and Boehner is powerless to stand against his outlaw group of tea party members, so even then we know the "negotiations" would go nowhere.  this is the logical result of electing people who hate government, to run government.

     
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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    In response to A_Concerned_Citizen's comment:

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    In response to Hansoribrother's comment:

     

     

    Who cares? Obama has said he is not negotiating.

     

     

     



    True dat.

     

     

    He refuses to even entertain giving the people the same kinds of exemptions that he personally and illegally has given to big business. He refuses to consider a delay that would benefit the implementation of a complex law that the government isn't ready to implement. And the putative reason given is that "we do not negotiate with terrorists?" Are you kidding me? This is surreal. In what sane world does the leader of a democratic republic refuse to talk to the opposition?

    What we have here is a massive failure of leadership. What we have here is an arrogant and childish political party that cares more about the agrandizement of power than they do the people that they purport to represent.




    What we have here is a bunch of whiny wingnuts who, when they don't get their way, resort to extortion, extortion of the entire US economy.

     

    The wingnuts live in a world of denial where elections aren't referendums on which party the voters chose as the majority.

    Wingnuts believe that their actions, no matter how destructive or how egregious are warranted because they can't deal with reality.

    They are terrorists




     

    The modern GOP rationale is the same as that of a rejected lunatic boyfriend who doesn't understand why his girlfriend rejected him for someone who is sane, coherent and less controlling.

     

     If the GOP can't have have America all to themselves and their warped view of reality, then no one can have America and America get's strangled.

     
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    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

    um, okay.


    You are complaining that the GOP's hostage-taking is somehow long-delayed justified revenge for being denied "negotiations" at the time Obamacare was passed.

    I am pointing out what bitter hypocrites they are. Why were they denied "negotiations"? Because they didn't want to negotiate. They made that clear when they promised to block everything Obama did to "break him and make him a one term President."

    The same hypocrisy surrounds military interventions. They were happy to rush us to war in Iraq based on faulty intelligence about WMDs - nevermind that Iraq didn't threaten us even with WMDs - and then dare to complain about Obama's actions with regard to Libya, Syria, etc.

     

    And here you are, yet again defending their hypocrisy.

     

     

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from StalkingButler. Show StalkingButler's posts

    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    They aren't offering anything, therefore there is nothing to "negotiate".  Further, real negotiations require that the participants act in good faith.  We've seen this tactic deployed by the GOP before.  They did it with the debt ceiling and other instances.  the GOP has recognized that it cannot get certain legislative priorities they want through the legislative process, so they have actively obstructed legislation, appointments, and budgets using each as leverage to extract political gains.  Hence the "hostage taking" rhetoric that everyone recognizes is apt and very accurate.  18 times the House refused to convene a committee with the Senate to negotiate budget matters, then all of a sudden with a couple hours to spare Boehner is open to meeting?  Nevermind that meeting would have nothing to do with the CR that was on the table.  The House GOP acts in bad faith, and Boehner is powerless to stand against his outlaw group of tea party members, so even then we know the "negotiations" would go nowhere.  this is the logical result of electing people who hate government, to run government.

    A.K.A. Politics.

    I am shocked, shocked, that these people in Washington are engaging in politics said the Inspector.

     

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    Think for yourself, question authority.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from DamainAllen. Show DamainAllen's posts

    Re: Why can't anyone explain what the HoR is offering in this

    In response to StalkingButler's comment:

     

    [QUOTE]They aren't offering anything, therefore there is nothing to "negotiate".  Further, real negotiations require that the participants act in good faith.  We've seen this tactic deployed by the GOP before.  They did it with the debt ceiling and other instances.  the GOP has recognized that it cannot get certain legislative priorities they want through the legislative process, so they have actively obstructed legislation, appointments, and budgets using each as leverage to extract political gains.  Hence the "hostage taking" rhetoric that everyone recognizes is apt and very accurate.  18 times the House refused to convene a committee with the Senate to negotiate budget matters, then all of a sudden with a couple hours to spare Boehner is open to meeting?  Nevermind that meeting would have nothing to do with the CR that was on the table.  The House GOP acts in bad faith, and Boehner is powerless to stand against his outlaw group of tea party members, so even then we know the "negotiations" would go nowhere.  this is the logical result of electing people who hate government, to run government.

     

    A.K.A. Politics.

    I am shocked, shocked, that these people in Washington are engaging in politics said the Inspector.

     

    --

    Think for yourself, question authority.

    [/QUOTE]

    "Politics" does not on its own denote bad faith negotiating.  In simpler times we would observe some trading of priorities, some things hit the cutting room floor, others get included, some get watered down, and everyone walks away claiming to have won.  We can't even get that version of democracy with the last two groups of congress because the GOP sent legislative terrorists to office who have vowed to disrupt anything that isn't seen as a direct win for them and their party.  They have come into office proudly annoucing they do not intend to compromise.  Therefore they aren't playing politics, as that would require at least two groups of semi coherent and semi reasonable reasonable parties to participate.  The republicans just say no, and when an important deadline or event approaches they threaten to tear down the fabric of our financial security by not raising the debt ceiling, they threaten to shutdown government, they threaten to hold up appointees, they threaten to not take action of reasonable bills many of them have supported in the past.  That's not playing politics, because some of the GOP actors are not qualified to be legislators, because they have no interest in LEGISLATING.

     

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