Where are peoples manners?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from prairieghost. Show prairieghost's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    you are not disabled.  
    you are pregnant.  which is by choice.
    if i choose to sit, why would you judge me,  i'm not judging your choice to be pregnant?  
    it is time to give up the entitlement game.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from aalvarez. Show aalvarez's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    In Response to Where are peoples manners?:

    you have to be careful of generalization here....lots of people have issues that arent visible.  i have diabetes, and lots of T rides are after a long day of work, in which I am probably borderline hypoglycemic.  you would never know it by looking at me, and probably just assume im rude, but truth be told i NEED to sit down for my entire 40 minute ride.  another buddy of mine gets migraines regularly...and the same deal goes...

    you cant assume every young to middle age man in the city is in perfect health, and perfectly able to ditch the seat they have.  im sure plenty of people can offer seats and dont, im just saying...to say that "men in general" are the guilty party is a massive overstatement.

    to be honest, if people have medical conditions that necessitate sitting, just ask someone to give up your seat...this whole thing about being pissed that men arent "offering" is wayyyy too passive-aggressive in my book.  just ask...you will be surprised how accomodating people can be.

    [QUOTE]Just because I am pregnant, I don't expect (nor want) people to fusss over me or pander to my every need.  But it would be nice, if you see me standing on the T, CLEARLY pregnant, to offer up your seat.  Not because I may have sore feet and aching back, more because if the train stops suddenly and, in all my heavy upper body glory, I fall over, then the ramifications for me might be far worse than they are for you. Oh, that, and because it is just good manners. The worst offenders for not offering up a seat (in no particular order): Men, any age. Especially those with Blackberries. Young women, aged 17 - 25. My particular favorite is the people who look at you when you get on, then pretend to nap, only "waking up" after someone else has offered their seat up/another seat has become available. Okay, hormonal rant over.
    Posted by Prill[/QUOTE]
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Jackieam. Show Jackieam's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    Once many years ago when I was about seven months pregnant a man offered me his seat on the T, and another man shoved me out of the way so he could grab it. The man who offered and I were so amazed at such rudeness that we both just stood there staring with our mouths hanging open. Where oh where are those snappy comebacks when you need them?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    In Response to Re: Where are peoples manners?:
    [QUOTE]you are not disabled.   you are pregnant.  which is by choice. if i choose to sit, why would you judge me,  i'm not judging your choice to be pregnant?   it is time to give up the entitlement game.  
    Posted by prairieghost[/QUOTE]
    Can I judge you for being a lazy lardbutt creep who won't give a seat to a fellow human being in need?
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    In Response to Re: Where are peoples manners?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Where are peoples manners? : you have to be careful of generalization here....lots of people have issues that arent visible.  i have diabetes, and lots of T rides are after a long day of work, in which I am probably borderline hypoglycemic.  you would never know it by looking at me, and probably just assume im rude, but truth be told i NEED to sit down for my entire 40 minute ride.  another buddy of mine gets migraines regularly...and the same deal goes... you cant assume every young to middle age man in the city is in perfect health, and perfectly able to ditch the seat they have.  im sure plenty of people can offer seats and dont, im just saying...to say that "men in general" are the guilty party is a massive overstatement. to be honest, if people have medical conditions that necessitate sitting, just ask someone to give up your seat...this whole thing about being pissed that men arent "offering" is wayyyy too passive-aggressive in my book.  just ask...you will be surprised how accomodating people can be.
    Posted by aalvarez[/QUOTE]

    I agree that not every disability is visible -- I have healthy-looking friends with serious heart conditions and I knew a woman with brittle bone syndrome who was constantly getting keyed for parking in a handicapped space. However, this isn't about the fact that men aren't giving up seats so much as that women ARE. And that's just a fact -- almost every time I was offered a seat -- I would say 95% of the time -- it was by a woman. This isn't about entitlement or chivalry or any backwards notion of female frailty and male strength. It's about the simple fact that when you're pregnant your back aches, your balance is thrown off, you have trouble gripping the bar because your ligaments loosen (it feels like carpel tunnel syndrome), your legs swell and cramp, and the 40% extra blood in your body causes lightheadedness. Standing for long periods of time on a hot, moving train or bus poses a real safety hazard for a pregnant woman. NONE OF US would be here without mothers, and if you can't have any empathy for the women who give nine months of their lives over to the creation of human life, it's time to take a long, hard look at yourself and your life choices, because you're no longer part of the human race. You're no better than an animal.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from reahnajc. Show reahnajc's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    Lemonmelon - I love that guy too!  As a 44 soon to be 45 year 'young' woman, I notice absent minded, insensitive PEOPLE everywhere.  I notice them on the T, in the Gap, when on vacation and even in the toll booths.  People just don't care about their neighbor, co-worker or fellow T rider as much as they used to.  Most people are self absorbed and young people...Geezus... they expect - even demand - a $350,000 house on a yearly wage of $35,000!  What happened to patience is a virtue, the Golden Rule, put other's first, hold the door etc.   
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from newlin. Show newlin's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    I have a hidden disability -  I have trouble standing in one place for more the 10-15 minutes.  Riding on the T can be very painful, yet I have given up my seat before for someone who is pregnant, or on crutches, elderly, etc.  I never get a thank you, just an entitled nod.  I believe people do need to have better manners, but most of us who could use a little help now and then need to ASK for it.  It's hard, but I have never had anyone refuse to give up their seat when asked.  A friendly "Excuse me, I am sorry to bother you, but would you mind giving up your seat for me?  I am pregnant (or whatever) and don't think I can stand any longer?"  would probably get you more seat offers than just standing there.  You shouldn't have to do it, but it's worth it....
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from online-me. Show online-me's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    You know, it can be really refreshing to be direct and make your needs known. Try it sometime! Glance around at the full seats and say cheerfully, "Hey there, anyone able to give up a seat so I don't fall down?" Yes, you'll get a seat. True, you should hope people see the need ahead of this. But don't be a passive aggressive martyr out to prove that fact, if you need a seat. People often don't act in a crowd situation unless called upon. Don't take it personally, just take a little action. And by stating your needs, someone will want to be the hero and give up the seat.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    In Response to Re: Where are peoples manners?:
    [QUOTE]I never get a thank you, just an entitled nod.
    Posted by newlin[/QUOTE]
    Virtue is its own reward.

    And sometimes the person accepting might be very proud and embarrassed to need a seat. Or too tired and pained to manage anything but a drop into the proffered seat. You just never know where the other person is coming from.

    That said, I very much doubt that the majority of young men in Boston are secretly handicapped. I'm pretty sure I know where they are coming from.

    You want a seat? Take the D line. It's like musical chairs up in that piece. People are always popping up to try to give their seats away to anyone with a limp or bifocals or just too many bags. Even the high school kids are always offering and claiming they "love" to stand. It's the most civil of all the T lines.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from nonantum. Show nonantum's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    It's tough to have manners in Boston when the women that surround us don't know how to be ladies.  Show me a lady in Boston and then the manners will flourish.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from amuzex. Show amuzex's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    I'll give up my seat any day for someone, no questions asked. But lets not over look the fact that even holding a door for a woman these days can get responses such as "I don't need you help, I'm just as capable as a man". Maybe it's not just a manners thing, maybe it's a bit of being cautious as a man from a "a woman that is fine without your help".

    I've seen it many times, and honestly I'm always expecting it whne I try to act as a gentlemen.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    Oh please. That never happens. Everyone holds the door for everyone else because the alternative is letting it slam in the person's face. This whole angry anti-door feminist thing is a total fiction. It's like the toothbrush/camera story.

    And I don't see why someone who needs a seat should miss out because she's not ladylike enough. What if the person who needs a seat is a man?

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from lemonmelon. Show lemonmelon's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    In Response to Re: Where are peoples manners?:
    [QUOTE]Lemonmelon - I love that guy too!  As a 44 soon to be 45 year 'young' woman, I notice absent minded, insensitive PEOPLE everywhere.  I notice them on the T, in the Gap, when on vacation and even in the toll booths.  People just don't care about their neighbor, co-worker or fellow T rider as much as they used to.  Most people are self absorbed and young people...Geezus... they expect - even demand - a $350,000 house on a yearly wage of $35,000!  What happened to patience is a virtue, the Golden Rule, put other's first, hold the door etc.   
    Posted by reahnajc[/QUOTE]

    I'm only a little bit younger than you, but I'm not ready for the "kids these days" attitude. I don't think that youngins are any worse than they were when I was young. I think people are actually getting nicer, as a matter of fact. But I think that mass transit is not the place to be looking for kindness from one's fellow man or woman. It brings out the worst and stupidest in people.

    Except the D line.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from online-me. Show online-me's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    In Response to Re: Where are peoples manners?:
    [QUOTE]I'll give up my seat any day for someone, no questions asked. But lets not over look the fact that even holding a door for a woman these days can get responses such as "I don't need you help, I'm just as capable as a man". Maybe it's not just a manners thing, maybe it's a bit of being cautious as a man from a "a woman that is fine without your help". I've seen it many times, and honestly I'm always expecting it whne I try to act as a gentlemen.
    Posted by amuzex[/QUOTE]

    ...Ummm...I don't know where on earth you hang out in trying to kindly open doors for women, but I have never ever seen a woman respond that way to a door being opened for her. I am in public places every day. With women and men. In and out of restaurants and office buildings and institutions such as schools. I just don't see that. Curious. If you are feeling brushed off, I suspect something else is up with that. For example, if someone says, "smile!" to me (a very odd command given, oblivious to what may be going on in someone's life at that moment) or tries to make a lot of direct eye contact or engage me, as a stranger, that is just downright creepy. People do have to protect themselves. Respect that fact.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from amuzex. Show amuzex's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    It's not untrue. Where I work we have an electronic bullitin board. About a year ago the company decided to offer reserved parking spaces for expecting mothers and advertised the idea on the board. Seemed like a resoniable idea to me.

    Well, I know you will say this is untrue as well, but the number one person against this idea was a pregent woman. She would go on and on about how she was able to bike to work, and she could walk, and being pregent was not a handicap. On and on.

    She made her pointal all right, the company decided to reserve 2 spaces rather than 3. The company still has the 2 reserved spaces, but could have had 3 if this lady did not have to prove a point.

    So, it certainly happens.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nattielite. Show nattielite's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    My grandmother, dead for over 10 years now, took the red line all the time.  She said the only people who ever gave up their seats for her were women.

    As a woman, I try very hard to notice when someone needs a seat, but usually I don't have one either.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from amuzex. Show amuzex's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    Nice to assume that I give creepy glares at ladies if I hold the door. It's clear this thread is dominated by women that don't want a male point-of-view

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from bidemytime. Show bidemytime's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    I always offer, but frankly 95% of the pregnant women turned me down.  I just started standing up and letting them choose for themselves; in case pride was getting in their way.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from cnanavati. Show cnanavati's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    It's not just a Boston thing.  True in New York, London, and Singapore.

    If you want to sit loudly say "I'm pregnant, would someone mind giving up their seat for me."

    I'm pregnant with #2 and if I take public transit (I make a point not to for these very reasons...too crowded, difficult to get a seat, etc) I advocate for myself and haven't ever not gotten a seat eventually.  If you don't want to deal with the hassle of public transportation (ie, the public) then drive and pay to park.

    Don't post a whiny thread, be proactive for yourself.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from tallhazelnut. Show tallhazelnut's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    Yup, I was pregnant 36 years ago and I remember folks rushing to grab seats while I stood, holding onto the strap, swaying, with my big belly practically in their face and no one cared.  Occasionally someone would offer me their seat and it was almost always a woman.  Once I tripped on the subway steps, 8 months pregnant, and there I was on my butt and people near me couldn't scurry away fast enough.  The last thing they wanted was to get involved and possibly miss their train.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jangles. Show jangles's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    In Response to Re: Where are peoples manners?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Where are peoples manners? : Virtue is its own reward. And sometimes the person accepting might be very proud and embarrassed to need a seat. Or too tired and pained to manage anything but a drop into the proffered seat. You just never know where the other person is coming from. That said, I very much doubt that the majority of young men in Boston are secretly handicapped. I'm pretty sure I know where they are coming from. [/QUOTE]

    Seriously, you're going to say that you never know where the other person is coming from so they shouldn't have to thank you, but you're going to ignore that argument when deciding that every man in Boston is a jerk who won't give you a seat simply because they don't feel like it?

    I guess you think some things ARE only good for the goose, and the gander is just a jerk who doesn't deserve a thank you because it was his civic duty anyway. Nice.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from ryan241. Show ryan241's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    I go hot and cold on this one.  I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS give up my seat (and whatever else is necessary!) for a pregnant woman.  It's just the right thing to do.

    I will say that if I gave my seat up for every rider that was a woman, I would never be able to sit down on the crowded trains.  Men have bad backs, feet, knees too!  Sometimes I feel guilty about it, but unless you are older than me or pregnant, I don't think the gender defense is enough.  Especially when all too often, it isn't truly appreciated - or at least clearly conveyed that it is appreciated.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chris2008. Show Chris2008's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    Whole heartedly agree with all posters. I don't know where it comes from - maybe some people see pregnant women as preludes to the stroller-on-the-T group which clearly is a sore spot for some (either a Globe or Herald story).

    I get on early enough in my bus ride to get a front seat - for the exact purpose that I give it up when someone pregnant, elderly, injured, handicapped or such needs it. If I leave it open (my natural tendency), someone like those you describe will sit in it and not give it up. I can only save one seat, but there have been times when it's come in handy to help someone out.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ryan241. Show ryan241's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    In Response to Re: Where are peoples manners?:
    [QUOTE]Once many years ago when I was about seven months pregnant a man offered me his seat on the T, and another man shoved me out of the way so he could grab it. The man who offered and I were so amazed at such rudeness that we both just stood there staring with our mouths hanging open. Where oh where are those snappy comebacks when you need them?
    Posted by Jackieam[/QUOTE]

    No snappy retort necessary.  Why didn't the guy haul him out of the seat?  I don't think I would have been able to avoid that.  My rage would get the better of me (read = ego) before I realized the problem was this guy's obnoxiousness.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bossman7. Show bossman7's posts

    Re: Where are peoples manners?

    As a father of two young children and witnessing two pregnancies, I do my best to empathize (impossible for a man) with pregnant women and always hold doors and vacate a seat for pregnant women and mothers of young children.  I would hope to instill that in my two boys, as well. 

    And sorry for the rant about Boston, but that's how Boston is.  I have lived here my whole life and the fact is that this is truly a rude and inconsiderate city. 

    I know the people who are 50+ will hem and haw about how young people are rude, but people who are 50+ are the ones who taught this generation to be this way.... And, I have met plenty of rude 50+ people as well.
     

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