Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    I have always been critical of Marc Savard, and i get thrashed constantly because of my views and opinions about him as a player. Let's be honest and more importantly realistic about Savard. He is one dimensional, not a two-way center-men (which most are). Is Marc Savard an elite passer? Yea maybe, i'll give you that, but an elite player? That's a bit far-fetched if you ask me. 

    Everyone keeps talking about how Savard can make a decent scorer good, and a good scorer great. Again, overrating his skills without looking deeper. To me, what separates Marc from other centers is his flashiness and magician type moves, but those skills are more of the style points variety.

    Here are some numbers that may surprise you:

    Calgary Flames: Sniper - Jerome Iginla
    99-00 = 29g
    00-01 = 31g
    01-02 = 52g

    Total avg. = 37g

    Post - Savard  
    02-03 = 35g
    03-04 = 41g
    05-06 = 35g

    Total avg. = 37g

    Atlanta Thrashers - Sniper: Ilya Kovalchuk
    02-03 = 38g
    03-04 = 41g
    05-06 = 52g

    Total avg. = 43g

    Post - Savard
    06-07 = 42g
    07-08 = 52g
    08-09 = 43g

    Total avg. = 45g

    Atlanta Thrashers - Sniper: Marian Hossa
    05-06 = 39g

    Post - Savard
    06-07 = 43g

    So, my question still remains, does Marc Savard really make that much of a difference in goal scoring output from your wingers? Keep in mind that this was a sample with "elite" goal scorers. Their stats remained the same if not higher post-Savard. So how much better are the Bruins with or without Savard? The facts proved not much if at all. Basically this is not an opinion, it's fact.

    Just another reason why i would rather have Bergeron and Krejci over Savard if it came to dealing one of them. My friends, you may knock on me all you want but facts are facts, deal with it.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from derrickmorin. Show derrickmorin's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    Here's a fact for you using your same stats:

    After Savard left Calgary, Iggy's goal total dropped by 17 the following season.

    After Savard left Atlanta, Kovy's goal total dropped by 10 the following season.

    I'm just pointing out the facts so no need to jump all over me.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from captainbergeron. Show captainbergeron's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

       With the concussion I think most teams will be weary of a trade involving Savard. Teams might not want to absorb his long term CAP hit if they're not certain he'll return to his original form. In the long run I suspect he'll be fine, but next season I'll at least expect a little less output from him.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    The problem with this is that there isn't a three year span when Savard didn't play with an elite sniper. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

     "Let's be honest and more importantly realistic about Savard. He is one dimensional, not a two-way center-men (which most are). "
    "
    xenimus"

    OK...Let's be honest

    You really are trashing Savard because of your biased opinion on Patrice Bergeron.

    You say Savard isn't a "two way center" , which is the battle cry for Bergeron supporters. 27 goals tallied in the last two years doesn't indicate 2 ways, unless you're spinning the reality to suit your own fan club mentality.

    Leave Savard alone, he's the last of the Bruins worries. You're just getting fired up because you think there may be a possibility Bergeron will be the one to go...
    So you decide to rip Savard, who doesn't deserve it -
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsNumber4. Show BruinsNumber4's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    Does Savard have better numbers than Bergeron and Krejci ? yes he does

    Does the Bruins Offense as a whole suffer when he doesnt play? yes it does,

    at the very least you would have to replace and or add talent if u ship Savard, you can ship anyone as long as you can get good value in return. so why split hairs on Savard with Overthought Stats? did you compare numbers showing that Bergy or Krejci improve the offense of wingers more than Savard does? i dont see how since they have less Assists than Savard does.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    In Response to Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...:
      "Let's be honest and more importantly realistic about Savard. He is one dimensional, not a two-way center-men (which most are). " " xenimus " OK...Let's be honest You really are trashing Savard because of your biased opinion on Patrice Bergeron. You say Savard isn't a "two way center" , which is the battle cry for Bergeron supporters. 27 goals tallied in the last two years doesn't indicate 2 ways, unless you're spinning the reality to suit your own fan club mentality. Leave Savard alone, he's the last of the Bruins worries. You're just getting fired up because you think there may be a possibility Bergeron will be the one to go... So you decide to rip Savard, who doesn't deserve it -
    Posted by JWensink

    No, I am not ripping Savard because I happen to like Krejci or Bergeron. I have ripped Savard's game since they signed him. I had concerns pertaining his ability to be a decent rounded player. If they trade Bergeron or Krejci that's their decision. I am a fan of hockey and will continue to follow players that i admire. I love Getzlaf and Nash and follow them on NHL-Center Ice, is that a crime too?

    Is that the best you can do? "27 tallies in two seasons"... Grade 3 concussion followed by another concussion, that's almost expected isn't it? 

    So what your saying is that so-called "elite" players cannot be bashed? Savard has a lot of weaknesses, too many for a player of such high stature. Opinions are beautiful, everyone's views are different and that's what makes discussions worth while.

    Also, I don't think there will be a trade evolving any of our centers. There are posts on these boards stating there case on why Bergeron, Krejci, or Savard should be the odd one out. I'm just voicing my opinion with facts. To me, Savard is a good player, but not one who is going to make or break the future of a team. That being said, Bergeron nor Krejci are what you would call "franchise" players but are what you consider "key" pieces.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    In Response to Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...:
    maybe an elite passer? MAYBE?
    Posted by pbergeron37


    Little sarcasm PB, lol...
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Raskman. Show Raskman's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    Savard is not going anywhere this season.  With him signing a new deal a full NTC for 10/11, I think that he'll be here for at least a year.  PC would look like a moron moving him before a new deal kicks in.  At this point, if a center is moved it's more likely that it will be Bergy.  Not that I'm rooting for that, but there is way more speculation about moving Patrice then the other two combined.  When there is smoke there is usually fire. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    In Response to Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...:
    Savard is not going anywhere this season.  With him signing a new deal a full NTC for 10/11, I think that he'll be here for at least a year.  PC would look like a moron moving him before a new deal kicks in.  At this point, if a center is moved it's more likely that it will be Bergy.  Not that I'm rooting for that, but there is way more speculation about moving Patrice then the other two combined.  When there is smoke there is usually fire. 
    Posted by Raskman



    NTC has not kicked in, they can do what ever they feel.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    I know that anyone can be traded...but how is this good business for the B's.  Savard signed a long term deal to stay here.  He could have tested the market and possibly made more but realized he liked the city and team he currently plays for.   Then the B's turn around and trade him?  What does that say to potential UFA/RFA's that may speak to player agents/players etc etc. 
    I don't think you trade him...he offers you a lot when he is playing.  His defensive game isn't that big of an issue.  If he has the puck the majority of the time it won't be in his end anyway.  And Savy isn't on the ice alone.   4 other guys and a goalie are there and they work as a unit. 

    Yes we are up against the cap...yes we have a lot of guys that play center...but the last time I checked the last 3 cup winners were deep at center. 


    The problem we have is PC signed guys like Ference before the season ended.  I would much rather go with a youth outta our 5-6 dman spot.  PC added to the cap issues before the season ended.

    Could Savy get dealt? Yes of course...should he? No, he would be my 1st line center.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    In Response to Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...:
    Then the B's turn around and trade him?  What does that say to potential UFA/RFA's that may speak to player agents/players etc etc.
    Posted by shuperman


    They aren't going to trade him before his NTC kicks in.  That theory was beaten to death here and, while possible, just isn't going to happen.  It's stupid.

    However, the theory of "how will other UFAs feel about this" or "how will the B's RFAs view this" is insane as well.  Teams can take a look at this, but overall, business wins over feelings, especially unknown feelings of unknown people. 


     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bobby774. Show bobby774's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    Savard goes nowhere!! Why would they sign him to an extension just to trade him away the next season!! Bruins strength is up the middle they don't want to mess with that. Look for the B's to add wingers not subtract centers
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    NOS,

    You know I enjoy reading your posts and have no problem debating with the best. 
    What organizations do you see as being top flight organizations?  I will throw Detroit as one of the obvious ones.  You don't think the loyalty that management shows the players has nothing to do with the top notch UFA's they have signed over the last 10 yrs or since the cap was implemented? 


    I totally get what you are saying in regards to money speaks louder than loyalties etc etc...but players do choose based on where their friends are located and the amount of class an organization shows and drive towards winning...if money was the only factor everyone would be lining up to play in Long Island and Atlanta...


    I am actually friends with Glen Murray(grew up and played hockey with him in B'Water) and he is tight with Thorton and signed a long term deal based on the fact that he would be here.  It does rip through teams.  I think hockey is different then all the other sports b/c these players are family...most of them from small towns in Canada...I am getting a bit off the topic but the point is that these players do follow money...but not in all cases...a lot will follow their agents advice and own personal knowledge of who is running the team, who plays on the team and the odds of winning.  And of course cash. 


    I get what you are saying, but to totally throw my thoughts under the bus is wrong...players are influenced by the mighty dollar...but that isn't the only factor.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Raskman. Show Raskman's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    In Response to Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...:
    In Response to Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out... : NTC has not kicked in, they can do what ever they feel.
    Posted by xenimus


    Well, then I guess he's still on the NTC that was a part of his last contract. 
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    Savy holds the cards with his NTC...

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    In Response to Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...:
    NOS, You know I enjoy reading your posts and have no problem debating with the best.  What organizations do you see as being top flight organizations?  I will throw Detroit as one of the obvious ones.  You don't think the loyalty that management shows the players has nothing to do with the top notch UFA's they have signed over the last 10 yrs or since the cap was implemented?  I totally get what you are saying in regards to money speaks louder than loyalties etc etc...but players do choose based on where their friends are located and the amount of class an organization shows and drive towards winning...if money was the only factor everyone would be lining up to play in Long Island and Atlanta... I am actually friends with Glen Murray(grew up and played hockey with him in B'Water) and he is tight with Thorton and signed a long term deal based on the fact that he would be here.  It does rip through teams.  I think hockey is different then all the other sports b/c these players are family...most of them from small towns in Canada...I am getting a bit off the topic but the point is that these players do follow money...but not in all cases...a lot will follow their agents advice and own personal knowledge of who is running the team, who plays on the team and the odds of winning.  And of course cash.  I get what you are saying, but to totally throw my thoughts under the bus is wrong...players are influenced by the mighty dollar...but that isn't the only factor.
    Posted by shuperman


    I wasn't attempting to throw your thoughts under the bus.  I was, and have been, attempting to remove the focus people keep putting on "if they do this now, how does it effect what happens with others in the future" as a primary motive for doing business in hockey.

    Murray signing was seen as a way to get Thornton under contract, and Murray was signed first, but whatever.

    Sure, players sign with teams because their friends are there, because management is kind, because there is a legit chance to win the Cup coming soon etc.  There are many, many, many reasons for someone to sign with a team.  Let's use Detroit as an example.  If they have Yzerman, Hull, Fedorov and Lidstrom, is a free agent going to be hesitant to sign there if they had signed a player with a NTC and then asked him to waive it for the good of the team?

    Of course not.

    Let's take a look at Washington.  They really botched the Michael Nylander deal, but Backstrom just signed a 10 year deal. 

    Tampa is a train wreck, but Ohlund signed a 7 year deal there.

    My whole point is that people think the idea of not hurting a players feelings comes before making good personell decisions.

    ***

    Top flight as in what?  How they treat their players?  Constant competitiveness?  Team cohesiveness?  Stability? 


     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    Top Flight
    Yes/Yes/Yes and Yes.  Most guys around the league will go to teams with all the above...its on the odd occasion where a guy signs for money only "ala Yashin".  Most Canadian born players especially will look hard at the franchise and then decide from there...its the main reason you don't see guys on the Panthers, Islanders, Nashville etc etc etc...they want a solid hockey market...

    And yes I do realize that some of these franchises don't have the option to sign these players b/c it would be financial suicide.

    Anyway...no sense beating a dead horse...I get your thoughts.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsNumber4. Show BruinsNumber4's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    Enough already seriously, Savard is good, Bergy is good, Bergy would get moved before Savard would. but most likely neither is going anywhere for the time being, so move on
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from perrysound. Show perrysound's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    Didn't we go through this already. Just say you don't like the guy. Stop hiding behind thin, fragile arguments. Top 10 in scoring Twice. Top 3 in Assists another year while in a Bruins uni.

    Again, if you don't like him, fine, but to down play his skill or commitment is really mind boggling. If he wasn't a pretty decent 2 way player, there is no way he gets on the ice for CJ.
     
    He had a bad rep for being selfish. I guess it was true. I didn't see much of him in Calgary or Atlanta, but for the B's to give him the big contract early, clearly indicates they like what he has developed into.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheoryNeutral. Show TheoryNeutral's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    To each his own opinion, but the way I see it, even apart from Savy's numbers, there's motivation and a crazy competitive drive. With it were contageous.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    People!...

    Look at the facts that have been revised. Savard does not make ANYONE any better. If the was the case then why isn't Ryder scoring 35g, Wheeler 30g, Sturm 30g, Lucic 25g. Even when he was with "elite" snipers he had little impact, if any. Iginla, Kovalchuk, and Hossa averaged better points production as a whole post-Savard.

    Everyone just gets all fired up because of how flashy he is. He's a one-dimensional player that's extremely good at one thing and nothing else. He's not big, not strong, cries a whole bunch, takes dumb penalties and does not take responsibilities for his mistakes. You cannot argue against facts.
    To be great, he needs to be babied and surrounded with the "right" players. You cannot expend your resources searching for a piece that's hard to find.

    Great passer, not so great "player".
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jessup07. Show jessup07's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    the funny thing is is that chia admitted he is feeling offers for him, i guess if you get a player do it, but i like the fact he is locked up to be a bruin for the rest of his career, when is the last time thats happened?
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    In Response to Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...:
    the funny thing is is that chia admitted he is feeling offers for him, i guess if you get a player do it, but i like the fact he is locked up to be a bruin for the rest of his career, when is the last time thats happened?
    Posted by jessup07


    Every player in the NHL is availabe except Ovechkin and Crosby.

    By making the statement that he has listened to some offers, it lets the rest of the GMs in the league know Savard is available.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Another fact why Savard may be odd-man out...

    Savard's numbers 2005-2009:

    82 28 69 97
    82 22 74 96
    74 15 63 78
    82 25 63 88

     

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