Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    As a prospective Med School Student i would like to offer my insight and opinion on Savard's current condition. Although i'm in school to become a surgeon i am not a doctor nor pretend to be one, at this time. That being said, i have done my fair share of neurological case studies that include patients with brain trauma or chronic metabolic cellular condition. 

    At least 40% of my studies dealt with patients that had suffered some level form of a concussion. I can also relate to this because i suffer from post-concussion symptoms (3rd-degree) as well, similar to that of what Patrice Bergeron suffered.

    The symptoms are pretty much standard and in most cases easy to detect and physically visible. The common symptoms are as followed:

    Dizziness
    Nausea 
    Sensitivity to Light
    Headache (Usually in form of a Migraine)
    Lost of equilibrium 

    Obviously, each patient is different and may respond to such trauma differently. While recovering from a concussion doctors recommend no physical activities because it can trigger the symptoms mentioned above. Usually, rest with light walking (10-15min) is the primary form to deal with this condition early on. Physical activity would then increase in terms of your heart-rate. For example:

    Wks
    1-3   Rest
    4-6    walk (10-15min)
    7-9    treadmill (HR target of 120) (*if capable)
    10-11 treadmill (HR target of 135-140)
    12-14 treadmill (HR Target 150-160)
    *weeks 7-14 should be symptom free.

    This observation brings me to the Marc Savard situation. The timing of his diagnosis is very suspicious. It has been noted that Savard successfully was able to complete physical demands during his off-season conditioning without restrictions, in which ironically enough did not have any symptoms. As early as one month ago Savard played golf with Peter Chiarelli and said he was feeling healtht and in good spirits and wanted to get the season started. Now, as i carefully dissect this i have come to the conclusion that this may be a smoke-screen ("may be" not "is"). I truly believe is a planned scheme to repair a "broken-bridge" between the organization and Savard in order to have a smooth "get-away". It would not surprise me at all if Savard is still dealt before he comes back, something is strange here.

    However, i am not saying that you cannot suffer symptoms out of the blue but just pointing out that it is highly unlikely to get them when your sitting on your couch in Ontario watching Curling on TSN.

    Anyways, this was my perspective to the whole situation. Take it for what it's worth.



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bruins8. Show bruins8's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    terrible analogy...here is a guy suffering through pain and you are voting on whether hes bluffing or not...shame on you...this guy got this injury playing for the city of boston
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrr-GOAT. Show No4BobbyOrr-GOAT's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    Pc took him for a lot of money at golf and Sav is waiting for his first paycheck so he can come back and pay him off because Pc knows someone who knows someone if he doesn't pay up.

    He has symptoms, so fogetaboutit.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    In Response to Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome:
    [QUOTE]terrible analogy...here is a guy suffering through pain and you are voting on whether hes bluffing or not...shame on you...this guy got this injury playing for the city of boston
    Posted by bruins8[/QUOTE]

    Listen, i do respect you, Savard, and his doctors but to be honest this is a sensitive issue that has a lot of untied strings to it. I assure you that i am not the only one questioning this. I spoke out of experience and personal perspective. You don't have to agree with my assumption. Speaking to doctors and my professors over the situation has led me to believe that there's a "possibility" his symptoms are non-existent.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from beantowngm15. Show beantowngm15's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    The Bergeron cult is back on the hunt guys.  Look out.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    In Response to Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome:
    [QUOTE]The Bergeron cult is back on the hunt guys.  Look out.
    Posted by beantowngm15[/QUOTE]

    LMAO!...
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    xenimus, the thought did cross my mind.  I've had football concussions and they never lingered into the spring..
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    "I truly believe is a planned scheme to repair a "broken-bridge" between the organization and Savard in order to have a smooth "get-away". It would not surprise me at all if Savard is still dealt before he comes back, something is strange here."

    Please don't include this on your blog. I have not lost respect for you X but I cannot understand this type of thinking as I do agree that this is a bit of a witch hunt.

    You of all people X studying to be a doctor should know genetics and that not everyone has the same physical makeup.

    "However, i am not saying that you cannot suffer symptoms out of the blue but just pointing out that it is highly unlikely"  

    Based on what ?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    Good God, if you actually plan on becoming a doctor, I suggest you study ethics.

    Any doctor or doctor-to-be should NEVER make a long-distance diagnosis without having spoken to or examined a patient, does NOT post such a diagnosis on an Internet site, and should never, EVER accuse someone of collusion in faking an injury.

    If I were you, I'd delete this thread. 
     
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from screw-cindy-and-ovie. Show screw-cindy-and-ovie's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    Xenimus,

    While I do not think that your theory is what is truely happening, it is a very good argument. Based on everything you presented, I can understand why someone would think that. I do agree that the timing is very suspicious. I find it very strange that Savard would "feel normal" the whole summer, only to have the symptoms show up a week before training camp.

    Something is going on here that we don't know about:

    Either

    A. Savard was experiencing symptons all summer and keeping the info to himself up until last week

    B. Xenimus' theory is true and this PCS is a bluff

    C. Savard felt fine all summer and these symptoms just came back recently

    It really makes you think...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from screw-cindy-and-ovie. Show screw-cindy-and-ovie's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    In Response to Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome:
    [QUOTE]Good God, if you actually plan on becoming a doctor, I suggest you study ethics. Any doctor or doctor-to-be should NEVER make a long-distance diagnosis without having spoken to or examined a patient, does NOT post such a diagnosis on an Internet site, and should never, EVER accuse someone of collusion in faking an injury. If I were you, I'd delete this thread.   
    Posted by duinne[/QUOTE]
    While I do not think X's theory is actually happening, he does present a valid idea that could be possible. Unlikely, but possible

    X, do not take Duinne's advice. Don't delete this thread
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BrightonChick. Show BrightonChick's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    In Response to Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome:
    [QUOTE]The common symptoms are as follows: Dizziness Nausea  Sensitivity to Light Headache (Usually in form of a Migraine) Lost of equilibrium [/QUOTE]

    I do believe something's wrong with Savard but when I read PCS symptoms it seems to me the symptoms of everything from the flu to a hangover.  Maybe he's sick, allergic to ragweed (late summer feels like a kick in the head) or otherwise run down.  I don't recall reading anywhere what his symptoms are.  But whatever they are it's probably safest to proceed like they could be concussion-related.    
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from fireballer58. Show fireballer58's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    good analogy dude, here's mine:

    he got a concussion, and he's suffering from PCS... thats it

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from bim09. Show bim09's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    This is a good thread.  I'm glad someone had the stones to post it.  That said, my opinion of Savy won't really change either way.  He's one of my favorites.

    And I hope he gets back soon, because I was really looking forward to seeing him play hockey with Teal'c.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    I would not be surprised if this is the beginning of the end for Marc Savard.

    Brian Burke did not make a move to even attempt to get him - that says a lot. If there weren't major question marks, Brian Burke would have pull all the stops to get Savard with the same zeal he went after Phil Kessel.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    In Response to Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome:
    [QUOTE]Xenimus, While I do not think that your theory is what is truely happening, it is a very good argument. Based on everything you presented, I can understand why someone would think that. I do agree that the timing is very suspicious. I find it very strange that Savard would "feel normal" the whole summer, only to have the symptoms show up a week before training camp. Something is going on here that we don't know about: Either A. Savard was experiencing symptons all summer and keeping the info to himself up until last week B. Xenimus' theory is true and this PCS is a bluff C. Savard felt fine all summer and these symptoms just came back recently It really makes you think...
    Posted by screw-cindy-and-ovie[/QUOTE]

    It is not unusual for someone who has had a concussion to feel fine for weeks or even months before suffering from PCS. That's what makes it such an unpredictable syndrome. Some people never have a bout of PCS. Some people will have very mild symptoms. Symptoms can come and go without warning. To accuse Savard of lying, one way or another, especially someone with ambitions to be a doctor (!), is reprehensible.

    Conspiracy theories very rarely hold up under the light of reason. The most logical, rational explanation is that Savard felt OK for a few weeks, worked out hard, then suffered symptoms of PCS at the end of the summer, as Chiarelli said he did. Why would anyone lie about this? To what end? To what gain?

    It's possible that the symptoms could disappear tomorrow, then reappear in December. Or they could linger for another month, or two months, or half the season. Or they could disappear and never reappear. But I'm sure whatever happens, somebody somewhere will conjure up a conspiracy to explain it, rather than accept the fact that even doctors who examine the patient can't predict these things for certain.

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    "Brian Burke did not make a move to even attempt to get him - that says a lot."

    This thread is getting funnier and funnier as it goes on. Heard in the offices of the Toronto Maple Leafs when Peter Chiarelli used the 2011 #1 pick he acquired from the Leafs for another top 5 pick....."F$#@&%!!!!!!!!!" Cause Brian Burke is Brilliant!

    This just in another pre-med student Eric Stratton rush chairman from Delta Chi says he has now discoverd a cure for PCS "TOGA, TOGA, TOGA!"
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    In Response to Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome:
    [QUOTE]"I truly believe is a planned scheme to repair a "broken-bridge" between the organization and Savard in order to have a smooth "get-away". It would not surprise me at all if Savard is still dealt before he comes back, something is strange here." Please don't include this on your blog. I have not lost respect for you X but I cannot understand this type of thinking as I do agree that this is a bit of a witch hunt. You of all people X studying to be a doctor should know genetics and that not everyone has the same physical makeup. "However, i am not saying that you cannot suffer symptoms out of the blue but just pointing out that it is highly unlikely "   Based on what ?
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    SanDogBrewing,

    I did mention that "every patient is different". Secondly, genetics don't have anything to do with trauma unless it's a degeneration on certain cells in which family history in a particular patient indicates any deficiency or risk. 

     ("Based on What") Based on my studies on patients dealing with concussions. Only 22% showed signs of re-occurring symptoms during periods of no activity. Again, this is just an "assumption". The probability here can be 1% to 99%, it all depends on how you view it.

    The headline may be a little miss-leading. When i said "Calling the Bluff" it was in (third-person view). Myself, i just gave an opinion on why "i" think this can be a hoax.

    To answer your other question, no i will not be putting this up on the blog. Not for the reasons you mentioned but because it was more of an open discussion. I'm glad that you disagree, that's what discussion forums are all about. I love to hear everybody opinions, thoughts, and ideas. No one is truly wrong or right, it's just a matter of perspective. You chose not to go along my line of thinking and i respect that 100%. I been bashed and thrashed many times before. This topic is very delicate and i am aware of all the negativity it may create. Sometimes, negativity brings out the creativity in people and i can see that already with the other readers.

    Much respect to you bro... -Xenimus
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    In Response to Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome:
    [QUOTE]Good God, if you actually plan on becoming a doctor, I suggest you study ethics. Any doctor or doctor-to-be should NEVER make a long-distance diagnosis without having spoken to or examined a patient, does NOT post such a diagnosis on an Internet site, and should never, EVER accuse someone of collusion in faking an injury. If I were you, I'd delete this thread.   
    Posted by duinne[/QUOTE]

    Duinne,

    Your absolutely wrong. There's a difference between ethics and questioning. I did not break any barriers or un-written rules. Maybe, if you take some courses you will see that you are encouraged empowerment and the title of theorist, especially in the field of sciences. Again, respectfully disagree. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from davecarr. Show davecarr's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    How do you know there weren't any symptoms before this? You didn't know anything about it until PC told us. 

    Were you with Savard all summer? I don't think you were. So stop assuming you know everything there is to know.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    In Response to Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome : Duinne, Your absolutely wrong. There's a difference between ethics and questioning. I did not break any barriers or un-written rules. Maybe, if you take some courses you will see that you are encouraged empowerment and the title of theorist, especially in the field of sciences. Again, respectfully disagree. 
    Posted by xenimus[/QUOTE]

    It's not being a "theorist" when you're accusing -- not "questioning" -- someone on chicanery based on speculation and a long-distance diagnosis. And this isn't a hypothetical discussion. You're talking about an actual human being, not a subject in a textbook. You say you want to be a doctor, and I say, if you do plan to be a doctor, treat humans (i.e. patients) with respect, and don't accuse them of lying based on a "diagnosis" when you haven't even seen, talked to, or examined them. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from lordy4. Show lordy4's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    I wonder if Savard has been suffering post concussion syndrome all along and didn't tell anyone. Symptons linger. I've seen it in my soccer girls who have had concussions. Maybe clearing him to play in the Flyers series was a bad idea. It may have been better for Savard to let him sit out that series and come back refreshed for this season. I really hope that Savard didn't lie about having headaches or other symptons in order to play in the playoffs. If he did, he put himself in serious danger. He really has to take it slowly this time and make sure everything is right. If he doesn't, Savy's career could be over

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from duinne. Show duinne's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    In Response to Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome:
    [QUOTE]I wonder if Savard has been suffering post concussion syndrome all along and didn't tell anyone. Symptons linger. I've seen it in my soccer girls who have had concussions. Maybe clearing him to play in the Flyers series was a bad idea. It may have been better for Savard to let him sit out that series and come back refreshed for this season. I really hope that Savard didn't lie about having headaches or other symptons in order to play in the playoffs. If he did, he put himself in serious danger. He really has to take it slowly this time and make sure everything is right. If he doesn't, Savy's career could be over
    Posted by lordy4[/QUOTE]

    Even if you discount what Chiarelli said - that Savard was working out earlier this summer and was doing fine - Milan Lucic said he'd talked with Marc several times over the summer and reported the same thing.

    Post-concussion syndrome can occur weeks, months, even up to a year AFTER the original injury. I don't know why so many people can't seem to comprehend this.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-concussion_syndrome


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stuke50. Show Stuke50's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    Would someone comment on this. Is it not against the NHL governors rules (or something like that ), to make public a lie ?  Because PC did come public with Savards condition. Therefore, he must have be suffering. Just curuious.... Go B's Go !!!!

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from xenimus. Show xenimus's posts

    Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome

    In Response to Re: Calling the Bluff: Savard Post Concussion Syndrome:
    [QUOTE]How do you know there weren't any symptoms before this? You didn't know anything about it until PC told us.  Were you with Savard all summer? I don't think you were. So stop assuming you know everything there is to know.
    Posted by davecarr[/QUOTE]

    Your proving my point. No one knows! It's an assumption not a fact. And why are you being such a hipocrit? Because not agreeing with me means you believe the total opposite. So i will mirror your question back to you; Were you with Savard all summer? I don't think you were. So stop assuming he has Post-Concussion Symptoms...
     

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