Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    Newf - Actually, yeah, it's okay to be paying Ryder $4M to be the second/third line RW.  The teams that finished at the top of the goal standings last year paid 

    Washington - $7.5M+ (they're LW heavy with $14M invested in Ovechkin and Semin) - 64 goals

    Vancouver - $9M+ (top RWs missed significant time and had to be backfilled, and their top scoring/paid wingers are LWs) - 53 goals

    Chicago - $14M+ - 65 goals

    SJS - $6M+ (but two of four listed RWs are ELs - and top pay/scoring wingers are LW with Heatley and Marleau taking in $14M+) - 50 goals

    Bruins paid less than $9M to their top RWs last year (Ryder, Wheeler, Satan, Recchi according to NHL.com) and got 63 goals out of the group.

    The point is that Ryder's contract isn't the problem all by itself.  Ryder's production is the problem.  How do you think StL felt about Boyes suddenly tanking last year?  But if the RWs as a group score up to par, you can live with Ryder's contract.  Unless you have a crystal ball or a WayBack machine, you'll have to get good at making sure units meet their targets, because individual players will always have down years.

    So go back to the goaltenders - Thomas's contract looks like a problem because he didn't put up the wins last year and Tuukka did.  If Thomas rebounds this year and plays as well as he did in 08-09, and Tuukka plays as well as he did last year, I'm going to guess that the need for that puck-moving D-man that people get their bloodpressure up about will fade into the mists with the other media-buzz-word driven conventional wisdom.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    I held off with ignoring foolish statements as long as I could.  This one is so full of poor info I had to offer the counterpoints.

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy :  To be fair I had no problem with Thomas making 5 million on a shortterm deal. My problem was & is the terms & the fact that he has a NMC & is considered a 35+ contract which has backed the Bruins into a corner.


    This is going to be the second year, so the B's would be here regardless of the other two years, unless you feel he would have taken a one year deal.  I want to point out, according to this statement, you're upset about what is going to happen in the future...even though you don't have a clue what is going to happen in the future.  Therefore, your entire argument against Thomas is rendered invalid.  But let's pick it apart anyway.



    [QUOTE]How many of them goalies you are comparing to Thomas spent the playoffs as a backup?[/QUOTE]

    For expensive goaltenders on the bench, look no further than the Stanley Cup Champs.

    [/QUOTE] How many of them had one of the top goalie prospects in the world ready to step in within a couple of years of signing there contract? [QUOTE]

    I'm going to guess you have no long term memory or you just started watching hockey in the past couple of years.  "Top goaltending prospects" generally don't become "top goaltenders".  It would be eternally foolish to hedge the future of the franchise on a top goaltending prospect that was ready to step in within a couple of years.


    [QUOTE]As for coming off the Vezina. I believe Thomas was actually signed before it was announced that he won the Vezina. Also, I admit I have never been a fan of Thomas or his style. Jim Carey won a Vezina as well. [/QUOTE]

    And there it is.  All of this is based on the fact that you don't like him, but it isn't based on the facts or logic.

    [QUOTE]But I really feel that both Thomas, Rask & even Fernandez when healthy have taken advantage of a great goalie system where a lot of the shots are from the perimeter. The difference is Rask is 22 yrs old & is sound technically while Thomas tends to flop & rely on instincts. [/QUOTE]

    Three goaltenders do well due to the defense, but only one gets kudos because of his age and how he looks while doing his job.



    [QUOTE]As for the Thomas contract or the Bs been pressured into signing him. Do you really believe that another team would have given Thomas a 4 yr deal at that money & a NMC given the fact that he was a 35+ contract? I don't believe so. He would have got the money but the term & perks that came with the contract would have been dangerous for any team. Chia lost in every aspect of that deal.[/QUOTE]

    It is unknown what he would have gotten, so debating it is fruitless.


     [QUOTE]To this point I have yet to see any writer question Chia on these contracts & have him verify he made a mistake about the 35+ part of the contract. If it is true that he didn't realize Thomas would be a 35+ contract when he signed the deal then Chia should be held accountable for that. But it appears the writers in Boston would rather write fluff pieces about there "sources" then actually hold Chia & the overvalued players accountable.[/QUOTE]

    Somehow, this is the fault of Tim Thomas?  Fluto writes fluff instead of grilling Chiarelli, so let's hang the goaltender.


    [QUOTE]This is what is wrong with this team right now. No accountability from the management team or the players. Until that changes this team will continue to be a dissapointment in the playoffs. If Chia made this mistake in Toronto he would be blasted by the media. In Boston the writers (especially on this site) & reporters appear to be scared to ask the tough questions.
    Posted by Newfiebullet[/QUOTE]

    I think it's more probable that the B's improve in the playoffs due to players like Seguin and the increased skills of Krejci, Lucic, Bergeron and Rask than it is that they continue to disappoint in the playoffs due to the Globe writers not being hard on the GM.

    So, in closing, I would like to apologize to everyone for this long, drawn out response to this poster.  I feel that spewing all of this misinformation is detrimental to the members here, and is exactly how board viruses get started.  Hopefully this poster will see that his dislike of Tim Thomas has clouded his eyes and re-arranged his thoughts while the actual facts about Tim Thomas seem to be the exact opposite of what he thinks.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    Nas
    I completely agree, I thought this was dead then I read what was in all actually one of the more rediculous post addressing Thomas, on the "lets be happy with this situation" thread..

    Thomas may cost $5m, but we're not paying one guy 3, and then a guy 4 from last year who didnt work out, and then another guy 2 cause he didnt work out etc..When fernandez was here earning 4.35 and thomas was making 1.1 as the starter no one cared cause cap wasnt an issue at the time, the following season we had thomas at 1.1 fernandez at 4.35 and auld, (and macdonald? ) that season as well and no one cared.

    Look at the isles, they locked up dipietro and now have to carry 2 back ups at 2-3m per because his health is always a question and niether of those guys is a starter. If rask out duels thomas and takes over the team, thats awesome. But if he regresses, hits a wall, or gest hurt, were in good shape.  6.35m on a top tandom is a deal.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from fp4778. Show fp4778's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    Okay here is the solution to the whole Thomas/Rask debate that doesn't require any player transactions just a change in how you look at things. Just forget the amount and term of each of the individual contracts and just focus on 6.5 mil for the two of them. Whatever way you look at it that is a very good price for a very good goalie tandem....full stop!!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Neelybestallaround. Show Neelybestallaround's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy : nASS your drill sargent Neely ? Yes sir says "beastallaround" I'm your kool aid carrier! OK show me some links or quotes were Bruins players said Thomas instills confidence during the 10' season not the 09' season ?
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    AHHH! Dam that Kool-Aid is good!
    Yeah, it instills confidence, not only the coaching staff, but also in the players," agreed Julien. "Everybody else says, 'You know what? He’s finding his groove again.

    "He’s Timmy getting closer to being Timmy again."
    Now, do I need to carry some Kool-aid for you now oh mighty wise one? Since you're obviously one of the legends that Nitmare was talking about. Too bad that's only in you're own mind too Sandog! "KOOL-AID, KOOL-AID TASTES GREAT, KOOL-AID, KOOL-AID CAN'T WAIT!"
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy : nASS your drill sargent Neely ? Yes sir says "beastallaround" I'm your kool aid carrier! OK show me some links or quotes were Bruins players said Thomas instills confidence during the 10' season not the 09' season ?
    Posted by SanDogBrewin


    Instead, why don't you post a link to a quote that says he doesn't?
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy :  Too bad that's only in you're own mind too Sandog! "KOOL-AID, KOOL-AID TASTES GREAT, KOOL-AID, KOOL-AID CAN'T WAIT!"


    You go ahead and keep enjoying that smell of your boys jockstrap lap dog!

    PS. Nice try brainiac Nitemare and I friends on this board. Unlike you 38 and I can agree to disagree plus still be cordial eat that Surprised
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Newfiebullet. Show Newfiebullet's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    "I held off with ignoring foolish statements as long as I could.  This one is so full of poor info I had to offer the counterpoints." In Response to Re:

    I always get amused how some fans think that what they say or believe is the end all & be all & that they feel they are the most knowledgeable Bruins fan & others who disagree with them "must have only followed hockey for the past few years."

    BUt since you had no problem picking apart what I wrote I have no problem picking apart what you wrote.

    Goaltending: God forbid we're happy :

    "This is going to be the second year, so the B's would be here regardless of the other two years, unless you feel he would have taken a one year deal.  I want to point out, according to this statement, you're upset about what is going to happen in the future...even though you don't have a clue what is going to happen in the future.  Therefore, your entire argument against Thomas is rendered invalid."

    I have no idea what will happen in the next 3 years, however, neither will you. What I do know is that year 1 of Thomas' contract was a bad year for him & has already cost the Bs cap space this year by Rask attaining his bonuses last season because of Thomas & his inconsistent play. I also know that goalies into there late '30s tend to decline. You usually don't hear of goalies improving after 35 years old.  It is not an invalid arguement because if Thomas was signed to a 2 yr deal it would be expired at the end of this season which would also make him easier to move now & we would not have to worry about the next 3 years of the contract. That is common sense really. 

    "But let's pick it apart anyway. For expensive goaltenders on the bench, look no further than the Stanley Cup Champs. "

    Really? So you want to compare Christobal Huet's contract which is also one of the worse contracts in the league to Thomas'? Both are horrible contracts & both were replaced by younger goalies. Do you honestly think Chicago are happy with Huet's contract? Isn't that one of the bad contracts that proved to be the downfall for Dale Tallon? The only difference between Thomas & Huet is that Huet can be sent to the minors without it counting against the cap while Thomas can't be sent to the minors as the Bs will be still responsible for his caphit. Comparing Huet to Thomas does not really help your arguement since both are bad contracts.

    "And there it is.  All of this is based on the fact that you don't like him, but it isn't based on the facts or logic. Three goaltenders do well due to the defense, but only one gets kudos because of his age and how he looks while doing his job. It is unknown what he would have gotten, so debating it is fruitless.   Somehow, this is the fault of Tim Thomas?" 

    Actually I am not a big Thomas fan & never was but I do respect his work ethic & the fact that he provided a good stopgap for a few seasons for the Bruins. The Bruins play a defensive system which has assisted all 3 goalies including Rask. The difference is Rask is a much better fundamental goalie then Thomas. Rask is also 22 yrs old & only makes 1.25 million. He has room to grow as a goalie & when & if he gets a big payday he will be held to same standard. If you could not see the difference between the two last season & could not see how much more calm the Dmen were playing in front of Rask then just go & look at Rask' record compared to Thomas' record last season. Is that not a fact?

    "Fluto writes fluff instead of grilling Chiarelli, so let's hang the goaltender. I think it's more probable that the B's improve in the playoffs due to players like Seguin and the increased skills of Krejci, Lucic, Bergeron and Rask than it is that they continue to disappoint in the playoffs due to the Globe writers not being hard on the GM."

    Once again you are making a strawman arguement. I did not say the Bs will lose in the playoffs because the Globe writers are not being hard on the GM. I meant for a team looking for accountability amonst there players why are the writers not asking Chia why he signed some of these brutal contracts? Why did he not know about the 35 + rule when he signed Thomas? At least that way we can see him try & squirm his way out of it. Who knows maybe he will throw out the old " well we have 2 solid goalies for 6.25 million" which is one of the most ridiulous things I have ever heard of from Bs fans. THat is there way to try & justify Tim Thomas' (Ralph the doorman from the Jeffersons) bloated contract. THat don't fool all Bs fans.

    "So, in closing, I would like to apologize to everyone for this long, drawn out response to this poster.  I feel that spewing all of this misinformation is detrimental to the members here, and is exactly how board viruses get started.  Hopefully this poster will see that his dislike of Tim Thomas has clouded his eyes and re-arranged his thoughts while the actual facts about Tim Thomas seem to be the exact opposite of what he thinks."
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Once again you are trying to make yourself look way to intelligent here. You can continue & drink the coolaid and tell yourself that " 6.25 is a good number for 2 goalies". However, most Bruins fans are smart enough to realize that with a backup making 5 million dollars it will prevent us from improving our transition game from the backend which is much more of a problem then our goaltending. The Bs get to the playoffs & the old Dman to Dman to Dman doesn't work anymore because of an aggressive forecheck without a solid puckmoving Dman. But hey, old Ralph from THe Jefferson's will be over there on the bench opening the gate counting that 5 million dollars.

    To be honest I think for the most part Chia has done a good job in Boston & doesn't deserve to be fired. YET. But most Bruins fans are able to take off there rose collored glasses & realize when there was a mistake made & call Chia out for it. Thomas was an albatross this past season & has already cost the Bruins a penalty capwise for this season. But keep defending him & keep those rose collored glasses on. Lets see how that works out for you.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Neelybestallaround. Show Neelybestallaround's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy : You go ahead and keep enjoying that smell of your boys jockstrap lap dog! PS. Nice try brainiac Nitemare and I friends on this board. Unlike you 38 and I can agree to disagree plus still be cordial eat that
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    Guess Nitemare isn't too picky about who he chooses to be friends with then!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Neelybestallaround. Show Neelybestallaround's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy


    [QUOT is opening a gate while making 5 million in a cap league then that is a monumental mistake.

    Actually, TT had already made his $5mill for the season. During the play-offs he only got so much for being on a advancing team. The 2nd round the players don't get a cent. So TT didn't get paid $5 mill to open a gate.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy : Guess Nitemare isn't too picky about who he chooses to be friends with then! Posted by Neelybestallaround[/QUOTE]

    And neither are you where as nightmare does circles around your hockey knowledge!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Neelybestallaround. Show Neelybestallaround's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy : And neither are you where as nightmare does circles around your hockey knowledge!
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    Ok Sandog. I apologize for whatever I did to you to pee you off. Can we call a truce? I am just as passionate about the B's as you are. I don't like when people have double standards especially when it comes to the Rask/Thomas situation & if I said something to offend in that regard I'm sorry. You're not a TT basher compared to some of the others & I would much rather get into a war of words with the real morons than you.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from RascalHoudi. Show RascalHoudi's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    Interesting thoughts, but there is a major flaw with a lot of people's logic when they assume that Thomas is guaranteed to be the backup.

    Although Rask took the mantle of the starter by the end of last year, there is no guarantee that he is going to hold onto it for the full season.  There are oodles of examples of 2nd year goaltenders that don't live up to their rookie year press clippings.

    Of course, the overall approach is to have Rask become the undisputed starter within the next two years, but don't forget that there are a lot of games to play between now and then.

    There is bound to be many times that B's fans will be happy that Thomas is under contract instead of some journeyman backup.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    [QUOTE]Interesting thoughts, but there is a major flaw with a lot of people's logic when they assume that Thomas is guaranteed to be the backup. Although Rask took the mantle of the starter by the end of last year, there is no guarantee that he is going to hold onto it for the full season.  There are oodles of examples of 2nd year goaltenders that don't live up to their rookie year press clippings. Of course, the overall approach is to have Rask become the undisputed starter within the next two years, but don't forget that there are a lot of games to play between now and then. There is bound to be many times that B's fans will be happy that Thomas is under contract instead of some journeyman backup.
    Posted by RascalHoudi[/QUOTE]

    I totally agree with you Rascal.
    Until Rask has more experience, and proves he can adapt to the shooters, as they learn his weaknesses, Thomas may indeed be the bruins #1 goalie.
      As of now, if Boston trades TT, it would allow them to keep Ryder...Uhhh...yippee?
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy : I totally agree with you Rascal. Until Rask has more experience, and proves he can adapt to the shooters, as they learn his weaknesses, Thomas may indeed be the bruins #1 goalie.   As of now, if Boston trades TT, it would allow them to keep Ryder...Uhhh...yippee?
    Posted by biggskye[/QUOTE]


    Yeah, people who dislike thomas are really not realistic.. I am not a fan, I am indifferent to him though.  He certainly earned his contract the hard way that is for sure.  Any thread that would allow thomas to walk for Rask and a back up (when rask hadnt played more then 5 games) is just un relistic..

    Anyone calling this one of the worst contracts in the league is not only unrealistic but un informed.  Thomas contract ranks him 13th in the league at his position. I would argue you will be hard pressed to find 13 goalies who a better (and no on entry level deals, or on their first contract off of their EL) Thomas didn't play 10g last season, he played 43.

    Anyone who is annoiting rask as the starter before the season has even begun seemingly knows nothing about Julien and his loyalty to his veteran players.

    Oh and the top of the dumb comments "thomas providing good stop gap goaltending for a few years" congrats that one takes the cake.. He provided enough or a stop gap that he lasted 5 seasons as the starter, and is 7th all time in games played, a 2 time all star and a vezina winner. Will undoubtly move up to 5th this season, 3 of the 4 guys in front of him being Hall of famers...
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy : Yeah, people who dislike thomas are really not realistic.. I am not a fan, I am indifferent to him though.  He certainly earned his contract the hard way that is for sure.  Any thread that would allow thomas to walk for Rask and a back up (when rask hadnt played more then 5 games) is just un relistic.. Anyone calling this one of the worst contracts in the league is not only unrealistic but un informed.  Thomas contract ranks him 13th in the league at his position. I would argue you will be hard pressed to find 13 goalies who a better (and no on entry level deals, or on their first contract off of their EL) Thomas didn't play 10g last season, he played 43. Anyone who is annoiting rask as the starter before the season has even begun seemingly knows nothing about Julien and his loyalty to his veteran players. Oh and the top of the dumb comments "thomas providing good stop gap goaltending for a few years" congrats that one takes the cake.. He provided enough or a stop gap that he lasted 5 seasons as the starter, and is 7th all time in games played, a 2 time all star and a vezina winner. Will undoubtly move up to 5th this season, 3 of the 4 guys in front of him being Hall of famers...
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]

    As Flavour Flav says.....YEAAAAAAA BOYYYYYY!!!! Nice stuff Roller! See now why can't the bashers have your attitude? You say you're not a fan & I can appreciate & respect that a hellva lot easier when you say it, because you also stay real, have common sense with your logic & you also don't turn a blind eye to Tim's accomplishments no matter what system he's played under. One thing I keep forgetting to mention when the basherclan say that is. Even when the B's were horrible under Dave Lewis & Sullivan TT's play was solid & he won, or kept games close on a lot of nights by himself. I can't believe their attitude towards him. Especially after all the trial & error format the B's have gone through over the years in this position.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy

    In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Goaltending: God forbid we're happy : As Flavour Flav says.....YEAAAAAAA BOYYYYYY!!!! Nice stuff Roller! See now why can't the bashers have your attitude? You say you're not a fan & I can appreciate & respect that a hellva lot easier when you say it, because you also stay real, have common sense with your logic & you also don't turn a blind eye to Tim's accomplishments no matter what system he's played under. One thing I keep forgetting to mention when the basherclan say that is. Even when the B's were horrible under Dave Lewis & Sullivan TT's play was solid & he won, or kept games close on a lot of nights by himself. I can't believe their attitude towards him. Especially after all the trial & error format the B's have gone through over the years in this position.
    Posted by nitemare-38[/QUOTE]

    I am not a fan of thomas solely because he does not look like a guy, hes more "short stalky".. I don't dis like him, but goalie's are tall and wirey most days(tuukka and miller etc).. Thomas doesn't play a typical style (largely impart to his stature, etc).. But they guy gets results.
     

Share