LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

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    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?:
    Its not  JUST the Lucic contract--which is a problem but is not fatal. Its not JUST the Thomas contract--which is a problem but not fatal. Its not JUST the Ryder contract--which is a problem but not fatal. Its not JUST the Krejci contract--which is a question mark. As Fluto S pointed out--there are a serious of little problems which--collectively--add up a potential very big problem going forward. You saw the implications of this yesterday at 3 PM Wednesday. Will continue to see implications for the next couple years.
    Posted by dogwhacker


    Great point.  We may have been able to get out from under one of those contracts, but we botched it.

    I would have GLADLY traded Ryder and a second rd pick for a 6th rd pick.  We DESPERATELY need cap relief!
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

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    Its not  JUST the Lucic contract--which is a problem but is not fatal. Its not JUST the Thomas contract--which is a problem but not fatal. Its not JUST the Ryder contract--which is a problem but not fatal. Its not JUST the Krejci contract--which is a question mark. As Fluto S pointed out--there are a serious of little problems which--collectively--add up a potential very big problem going forward. You saw the implications of this yesterday at 3 PM Wednesday. Will continue to see implications for the next couple years.
    Posted by dogwhacker


    All of these problems are only problems at the moment because the players aren't producing to their salaries.  I'm tired of arguing about Lucic, so - it's a right of spring in the NHL to watch immensely talented teams that got cheap on when it came time to paying the price for a proven goaltender lose to lesser teams with better goaltending.  Washington, Chicago, Philly - each should be nervous.  San Jose should be nervous given Nabokov's weak Olympic showing.  LA is relying on an untested Jon Quick.  Detroit may live or die with Jimmy Howard, but at least they have a guy whose proven on the roster.  Letting Thomas walk as a FA last year would have been either incredibly brave or disastrously stupid.  I'm not sure a shorter term or fewer dollars were an option.  I think the options were this deal, or TT goes to market.  And he'd have gone.  And the Bruins would have had to pray like the Vatican that Rask could shoulder the NHL load or that they'd win the Craig Anderson sweepstakes for journeyman goaltenders who come out of nowhere.  Ryder's contract is for a 30 goal scorer.  He's not scoring this year, but he's only scored fewer than 25 once in his pro career, and he's never scored fewer than 27 under Julien.  And the Bruins needed a scoring winger that summer, so they overpaid to make sure they got him.  Krejci's not getting results that match his contract, but does anyone think he doesn't have the talent to fulfill that contract?  So...whose fault is it that he hasn't played up to par?

    The fix on most of these problems is for the players to get healthy and play up to the levels they should.  That's the problem.  In many of these cases, you can say "oh, that's too much" but if they were playing to the roles they've shown in the past they can fill, you wouldn't be able to replace them for less short of drafting kids to do the job.
     
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    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL? : Yeah.....sorry about that. Obviously the salary cap is everything now and so it does matter.  I think it has sucked a lot of the fun in the league though. Trade deadline used to be fun with a lot of player movement and huge trades. Now it's salary dump and 4th round picks that makes news......sad
    Posted by LoveRealHockey


    I could not agree more.  Unfortunately, the rediculously constrictive salary cap has COMPLETELY morphed the way GM's need to look at players.  ANd I agree that it takes some of the fun out. 

    Unfortunately, with the backwards financial structure of the NHL, the best players ren't necessarily the best assets.  The most underpaid players are.  A B+ hockey player signed to a long-term underpaying deal is MUCH more valuable than an elite superstar signed to an elite superstar contract.

    Great post!
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    Drew, Lucic wont hit UFA till 2013 this is the last year of his rookie contract ,plus 3 years..  

    http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2009/10/06/milan-lucics-contract-extension-fair-price-or-overpayment/

    Take a look at that and look at all the comments, and the one guy is right, you do have to pay for potential, its been proven over and over again in sports..
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

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    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL? : Well...on the one hand, I think the Bruins paid him because they think he can be a 25 goal scorer.  And I've written before that he has good enough hands in tight to get there given his size and ability to play with top players.  But I think you're under-estimating the importance of a banger who can play on your top line and not disrupt the skill guys, or even contribute to their games by doing the dirty work and making clean passes.  When you've got a world-class banger - and you have to admit that there are few guys who deliver the force Lucic does when he hits - who is hitting first-pair D all night, those hits are way more valuable.  It's not the number of hits, it's who you hit, right?  If you're a bean-counter, you'd probably be able to figure out some kind of VoRP for guys like Lucic, too, in terms of how much the numbers of his linemates go up with him as opposed to with just another offensively talented guy or with a Shawn Thornton.  I bet that'd be correlated with winning more closely.
    Posted by Bookboy007


    One thing that I believe you are overlooking is how short-term the contract is.  Its not like they locked him up long-term.  They gave him 2 years at line 1 money.  As such, he has to be a line 1 winger almost immediately. 

    As Ive said, the cap is so constrictive that you really cant afford to pay a winger 4M unless he belongs on line 1.

    I agree that bangers are very important, but I dont believe in paying more than the going rate for them.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

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    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL? : One thing that I believe you are overlooking is how short-term the contract is.  Its not like they locked him up long-term.  They gave him 2 years at line 1 money.  As such, he has to be a line 1 winger almost immediately.  As Ive said, the cap is so constrictive that you really cant afford to pay a winger 4M unless he belongs on line 1. I agree that bangers are very important, but I dont believe in paying more than the going rate for them.
    Posted by Drewski5


    I do completely agree with you here.. they signef him for 3 season, he hits free agency at 24/25? If you believe in the potential and feel he is a cornerstone why not lock him up long term..
     
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    Drew, Lucic wont hit UFA till 2013 this is the last year of his rookie contract ,plus 3 years..   http://nhl.fanhouse.com/2009/10/06/milan-lucics-contract-extension-fair-price-or-overpayment/ Take a look at that and look at all the comments, and the one guy is right, you do have to pay for potential, its been proven over and over again in sports..
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    You do have to pay for potential....if the player in question is on the open market.

    In sports, we see players sacrifice total dollars for security ALL THE TIME.  Look at Dustin Pedroia.  We have him for the forseeable future at 1/2 price!  How did we do this?  Because he had 2 years left at rookie money.  The Sox approached him and said "look, with your current contract , you are 2 years away from being set for life.  Why dont we lock you up long term and make you a rich man TODAY.  However, because we are doing this for you, we are going to ask you take a contract that is a couple mil below market value."

    The Sox did the same exact thing with Jon Lester.

    Because the B's had looch under team control for one last year (at rookie contract), THEY had the leverage.  They could have laid it out similarly to the way the Sox laid it out to Pedroia and Lester.  But for some reason, the leverage that the B's had isnt reflected in the contract.
     
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    c) (a combination of a and b): we are probably not cup contenders this year or next d) Because of point "C" the best bet is probably to build for the future This being the case, how do you justify NOT shopping Chara (UFA after 2011), Lucic (UFA after 2011), Thomas (the Caps WOULD have been interested), Wheeler (UFA after this year, not going to stay), Recchi (love the guy but he has more value on a cup contender), Sturm (use the lack of talent up for grabs to try to convince a team that taking this bad contract is better than giving up a second for equal talent)... The worst part?  It was clearly a seller's market. PC screwed up badly.  Its really not about a lack of hockey knowledge either.  Its more so because he really doesnt understand economics
    Posted by Drewski5


    Wow.  You'd have had them go for a complete rebuild?  Gut it and start fresh?  So here's the problem with that - it costs more to get guys than to keep them.  That's basic economics if you think of players as customers.  If the Bruins have no scoring on the wings because they've move their top 5 goalscoring wingers, who replaces them?  Not just next year but over the next two?  If you sign FAs, you'll be overpaying and risking that the guys you bring in perform - and there is no GM anywhere who hasn't been burned on this.  If you trade for picks, you need to fill the gaps until the picks develop, if they develop.  If you get prospects, you're hoping they can step right in, but that's a huge risk too.  And of that group, only Chara, Lucic and Wheeler might bring back young, high-potential players, but Lucic and Wheeler ARE young players with better than average potential.  (Wheeler, by the way, is an RFA, not a UFA.)  And to top all of that off, sellers market or not, no one is going to make a deal to help the Bruins get cap relief.  Washington might take Thomas, but it wouldn't be for Fleischmann.  Teams would take Lucic for a good return, but they'd probably insist on moving salary back, and they'd lowball you based on his difficulties this year.  Sturm and Ryder - what do you think you get there?

    So how is it good economics to divest yourself of assets that you would need to replace, and do it for less than their value to you?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    But the difference there is pedroi ahad spent 2 years in the minors and 2 years with the sox, really after rookie of the year, and MVP they had a full glimpse into his potential, there should be improvement but it wont be drastic, slightly more power, less strike outs..

    its wasnt as clear for looch, he went from 27 pts, to 42 points, played a larger roll on the team, they didnt want to take the chances that he put up 60-70 this year and was looking for more, they also didnt want to sign up for 6-8 years at 4 million and have him not pan out, they played it safe, paid him a little over what they should have to get the deal done..The bruins weren't as confident as the sox were, more money short term, or less money long term..

    I think hes a big guy, he will continue to develop big guys take longer to develop, look at van reimsdyke to kane.. etc..

    the biggest flaw is at 25 he hits free agency..

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from chrisbruinsfan. Show chrisbruinsfan's posts

    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    wow Lucic has an upside of 90 points?

    Are you out of your mind?
     
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    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    There's a big difference between Lucic and Kessel, highlighted by the interest in playing here. Lucic does, Kessel doesn't. People see one bad season and jump all over it, classic bandwagon syndrome. Lucic improved in his sophmore season. He doubled his goals and improve by 15 points while playing in 5 less games. He's come off of serious injuries twice this season, which takes time to re-adjust to (look at Bergeron from the concussions, Savard from his back injuries at the beginning of last season, Krejci this season). This also explains Krejci's issues, especially since he came back ahead of schedule. After the injuries it just adds up to an off season and to a bad season as an overall team. People attack Chiarelli because he makes decisions that look good at the time and looked good for the future. Who would've expected the drop off for Lucic, Krejci or Thomas. Ryder was a bad decision that's easy enough to see. Stop monday morning guessing decisions that aren't even solid yet. People who write off promising 22 and 24 year olds because of one bad season aren't really qualified to make an informed decision on hockey, are they? 

    Oh, and Thomas had 1 good season, one amazing season and one average one (try playing well on a terrible 06-07 team) before this season. This season isn't entirely his fault either. Soft goals hurt yea but he still has a 2.52 GAA and a .915 save %, 14th in the league but considering when you have to rely on the play of guys like Wideman and Hunwick to clear out the front of the net he shouldn't be facing the constant barrage of shots he's had to face this year.

    One more thing, as for the trade deadline would people please shut the heck up about not making a trade for a forward. This year's market after Kovalchuk was pure garbage, nobody worth the prices they would've needed to give up to get the players. This year is what it is, there's no need to pander to the band wagon fans if you can come back next year or the year after and get the same pathetic pseudo fans back with another winning season.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    Drewski - you ignored the rest of my points about there being more complexity to the question of "bangers" than you've taken into account.  You say he's paid to be a first liner immediately - well, he was a first liner last year, and it looked like they planned to use him there this year.  They planned to keep him there.  And he still isn't getting that $4M until next year, when he'd have had two years on and off the first line to help him prep for that expectation.

    And you pay for potential before a player's on the open market when you try to keep him off the market.  This is one place where I think they did react rather than plan.  The threat of an offer sheet to Kessel put Chiarelli in a weak bargaining position - not even with Burke involved, but with Kessel saying he wanted out being willing to wait for an offer sheet and let the market decide his value.  The Lucic who got invited to Olympic orientation - especially if his game progressed on the same curve as it had between years one and two - would have gotten offers above $4m because teams would have been trying to keep Boston from matching, or, if Boston matched, keep them from being able to match on Wheeler or Rask who were also up for RFA this summer at the time.  So there was some risk management there.  This is where you have to remember the difference in the systems with baseball.  Pedroia and Lester couldn't field offers when they signed those deals.
     
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    wow Lucic has an upside of 90 points? Are you out of your mind?
    Posted by chrisbruinsfan



    actually the comment was he has an offensive upside, 90 pts, probably not

    20-30 goals  yes
     
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    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    Just if steve ott is worth 4 million a season, how is lucic who is younger with more of an upside not???
     
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    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    I still think Lucic wont last in the NHL.. overpaid from day one.  Bookboy you can say all you want about what he brings and give it time blah blac,  to me he brings nothing absolutely nothing.  if somone cant skate and has no creativity/patience when he has the puck is not worth that amount of cash, NO F en way. 

    The rest of the boston fans who bought his jersey and paid to just see him is also to blame for this year and in my eyes years to come the disaster of a team PC and the bruins org have created.  SIck to my stomach on how these people run an org.  Just as yourself all, would you rather see a stanley CUP contender team or an overpayed goon? 

     
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    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL? : All of these problems are only problems at the moment because the players aren't producing to their salaries.  I'm tired of arguing about Lucic, so - it's a right of spring in the NHL to watch immensely talented teams that got cheap on when it came time to paying the price for a proven goaltender lose to lesser teams with better goaltending.  Washington, Chicago, Philly - each should be nervous.  San Jose should be nervous given Nabokov's weak Olympic showing.  LA is relying on an untested Jon Quick.  Detroit may live or die with Jimmy Howard, but at least they have a guy whose proven on the roster.  Letting Thomas walk as a FA last year would have been either incredibly brave or disastrously stupid.  I'm not sure a shorter term or fewer dollars were an option.  I think the options were this deal, or TT goes to market.  And he'd have gone.  And the Bruins would have had to pray like the Vatican that Rask could shoulder the NHL load or that they'd win the Craig Anderson sweepstakes for journeyman goaltenders who come out of nowhere.  Ryder's contract is for a 30 goal scorer.  He's not scoring this year, but he's only scored fewer than 25 once in his pro career, and he's never scored fewer than 27 under Julien.  And the Bruins needed a scoring winger that summer, so they overpaid to make sure they got him.  Krejci's not getting results that match his contract, but does anyone think he doesn't have the talent to fulfill that contract?  So...whose fault is it that he hasn't played up to par? The fix on most of these problems is for the players to get healthy and play up to the levels they should.  That's the problem.  In many of these cases, you can say "oh, that's too much" but if they were playing to the roles they've shown in the past they can fill, you wouldn't be able to replace them for less short of drafting kids to do the job.
    Posted by Bookboy007





    well said
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    Wow.  You'd have had them go for a complete rebuild?  Gut it and start fresh? 

    If Chara is a UFA after 2011, and we are not going to be cup contenders by 2011, then he has more value on another team.  If he has more value to another team, a trade is in the best interest of everybody.

    So here's the problem with that - it costs more to get guys than to keep them.  That's basic economics if you think of players as customers. 

    Only special players take discounts to stay with their clubs.  Its a bad assumption to make.  More often than not, a player is going to go to the highest bidder.  Home town discounts do NOT happen often.

    If the Bruins have no scoring on the wings because they've move their top 5 goalscoring wingers, who replaces them? 

    Who replaces players when other teams go into rebuilding modes?  Draft picks / call ups / cheaper veterans...You get a chance to evaluate your future players (and lock them up long term if you like what you see).

    Not just next year but over the next two?  If you sign FAs, you'll be overpaying and risking that the guys you bring in perform - and there is no GM anywhere who hasn't been burned on this. 

    I agree.  Hockey is not as different from other sports as hockey fans want to believe.  In baseball, its wise to develop a core of home grown guys BEFORE you go purchasing those expensive free agents.  Same with Hockey.  There is no advantage to being in 9th over finishing last.  If you have to stink for 2-3, its worth it in the long run.  Ideally, you wait until you have a young core locked up and then you seek to put the team over the top with external acquisitions (expensive free agents)

    If you trade for picks, you need to fill the gaps until the picks develop, if they develop.  If you get prospects, you're hoping they can step right in, but that's a huge risk too. 

    You say huge risk, but Im not seeing what we have to lose. I dont see us contending for a cup prior to 2011.  I want to win one with savard.  We should be focusing on 2012,2013.  If we stink in 2011, thats okay with me.

    And of that group, only Chara, Lucic and Wheeler might bring back young, high-potential players, but Lucic and Wheeler ARE young players with better than average potential.  (Wheeler, by the way, is an RFA, not a UFA.) 

    Yes they are young ,but the window to lock them up for cheap has passed.  Boat has sailed.

    And to top all of that off, sellers market or not, no one is going to make a deal to help the Bruins get cap relief.  Washington might take Thomas, but it wouldn't be for Fleischmann. 

    I dont care, I just want the money off hte books.  And there were about 10 trades yesterday that were made with cap relief in mind.

    Teams would take Lucic for a good return, but they'd probably insist on moving salary back, and they'd lowball you based on his difficulties this year.  

    Our stances on his contract differ.  I believe it to be a bad contract and therefore dont care much about return.  Anything we get back is gravy.

    Sturm and Ryder - what do you think you get there?
     
    It doesnt matter, all I want is there salaries off hte books.  Id give up Sturm and a second for a fourth and be happy.  Ryder and a second for a fourth and be happy.  If a team thinks they are 1 winger away from cup contending they'll take on a bad contract (in hopes that it puts them over the top in the current year).

    So how is it good economics to divest yourself of assets that you would need to replace, and do it for less than their value to you?

    Sturm and Thomas have negative value.  In the NFL, contracts arent guaranteed and as a result players get cut all the time.  Even good players get cut.  If you arent worth your contract you have negative value, as you are limiting your team.  0 value is better than negative value. 

    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    I believe:
    A) You should commit to either winning now or winning later.  Not being stuck in limbo without a clear direction.

    B) I believe that the B's are STUCK behind bad contracts right now.  This needs to be addressed
     
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    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

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    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL? : I do completely agree with you here.. they signef him for 3 season, he hits free agency at 24/25? If you believe in the potential and feel he is a cornerstone why not lock him up long term..
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    Because its all about the contract.  Its not about how good he is, its about how good he is relative to his contract.  These are completely different things.
     
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    But the difference there is pedroi ahad spent 2 years in the minors and 2 years with the sox, really after rookie of the year, and MVP they had a full glimpse into his potential, there should be improvement but it wont be drastic, slightly more power, less strike outs.. its wasnt as clear for looch, he went from 27 pts, to 42 points, played a larger roll on the team, they didnt want to take the chances that he put up 60-70 this year and was looking for more, they also didnt want to sign up for 6-8 years at 4 million and have him not pan out, they played it safe, paid him a little over what they should have to get the deal done..The bruins weren't as confident as the sox were, more money short term, or less money long term.. I think hes a big guy, he will continue to develop big guys take longer to develop, look at van reimsdyke to kane.. etc.. the biggest flaw is at 25 he hits free agency..
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    great points.  But they really didnt have the money to do this, as we are quite cap-strapped.
     
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    Drewski - you ignored the rest of my points about there being more complexity to the question of "bangers" than you've taken into account.  You say he's paid to be a first liner immediately - well, he was a first liner last year, and it looked like they planned to use him there this year.  They planned to keep him there.  And he still isn't getting that $4M until next year, when he'd have had two years on and off the first line to help him prep for that expectation. And you pay for potential before a player's on the open market when you try to keep him off the market.  This is one place where I think they did react rather than plan.  The threat of an offer sheet to Kessel put Chiarelli in a weak bargaining position - not even with Burke involved, but with Kessel saying he wanted out being willing to wait for an offer sheet and let the market decide his value.  The Lucic who got invited to Olympic orientation - especially if his game progressed on the same curve as it had between years one and two - would have gotten offers above $4m because teams would have been trying to keep Boston from matching, or, if Boston matched, keep them from being able to match on Wheeler or Rask who were also up for RFA this summer at the time.  So there was some risk management there.  This is where you have to remember the difference in the systems with baseball.  Pedroia and Lester couldn't field offers when they signed those deals.
    Posted by Bookboy007


    Correct because the Sox were smarter and locked the players up before they had a chance to negotiate.  When a player is an RFA , its already too late.  You have to sign them early.  Lock them up!  I understand its a gamble, but you hire a scouting staff for a reason, and you HAVE to trust them!
     
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    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?:
    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL? : Because its all about the contract.  Its not about how good he is, its about how good he is relative to his contract.  These are completely different things.
    Posted by Drewski5


    That was more of a rhetorical question that I would pose on bruins management..
    but how good he is now would have to be relative to his current contract don't you think? you can't evaluate the contract prior to him even entering it, middle of the 2011-2012 season if when you can realistically start to look at this as a good or bad contract.. right now he is still playing out his entry level deal and is a complete steal regardless of what he puts up..

    Contracts need to be looked at over the life of the contract you can't say lucic played to $2m this year, 4 the following and 6 the year after that and try to adjust year in year out..

    as you said in football players get cut all the time, this is only after their gauranteed money has cleared though.. lucic isnt Jamarcus russel at this point.. and his new deal hasnt even started, he's going to improve so i would give him the chance before you call the contract a bust.
     
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    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    I realize I still havent answered your question about bangers.  You probably know more about hockey than I do.  But what I do know is business, and its unwise to pay top-dollar to fill a role when you could get slightly less value in said role for cheaper. 

    If bangers were being signed around the league for 3.5-4.5 at the time that would be one thing, but they werent.  Looch's contract kind of paved the way for this.  Look at what Thorton makes (500 K). He can bang nearly as well.  I'll take your word on the importance of bangers (you clearly know a ton about hockey); however, they could have gotten a slightly less banger for much cheaper.

    I cant stress this enough: its not about talent.  Its about talent in light of contract.  A B+ banger at 500k is much more valuable than an A+ banger at 4M.
     
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    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?:
    I realize I still havent answered your question about bangers.  You probably know more about hockey than I do.  But what I do know is business, and its unwise to pay top-dollar to fill a role when you could get slightly less value in said role for cheaper.  If bangers were being signed around the league for 3.5-4.5 at the time that would be one thing, but they werent.  Looch's contract kind of paved the way for this.  Look at what Thorton makes (500 K). He can bang nearly as well.  I'll take your word on the importance of bangers (you clearly know a ton about hockey); however, they could have gotten a slightly less banger for much cheaper. I cant stress this enough: its not about talent.  Its about talent in light of contract.  A B+ banger at 500k is much more valuable than an A+ banger at 4M.
    Posted by Drewski5


    I don't think lucic paved the way for this, hes a better player then Steve Avery making the same kind of money..

    I was suprised at what he signed for, I really thought his deal would be slightly less then krejci's but i thinnk if you put this season aside and look at this constant offensive improvement (he was a point per game in the playoffs almost) and his age, take into account the big guys take longer to develop, there is alot of evidence to bac kup exactly what he makes.. The kid's not thornton, and up untill his injuries, minutes and stats backed that up.. He has the character and wants to improve.. Plus if we went to trade him most teams in the league would be interested and that alone has to say something.
     
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    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?:
    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL? : That was more of a rhetorical question that I would pose on bruins management.. but how good he is now would have to be relative to his current contract don't you think? you can't evaluate the contract prior to him even entering it, middle of the 2011-2012 season if when you can realistically start to look at this as a good or bad contract.. right now he is still playing out his entry level deal and is a complete steal regardless of what he puts up.. Contracts need to be looked at over the life of the contract you can't say lucic played to $2m this year, 4 the following and 6 the year after that and try to adjust year in year out.. as you said in football players get cut all the time, this is only after their gauranteed money has cleared though.. lucic isnt Jamarcus russel at this point.. and his new deal hasnt even started, he's going to improve so i would give him the chance before you call the contract a bust.
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    You make some really good points, and I agree that we wont know if he will wind up being a bust until we have the benefit of hindsight.  However, do you think that the Bruins would give him 12 M for the next 3 years today?  Probably not. This is why I believe that at this exact point in time his fair market value has dipped below the contract that he has coming to him. 

    I'm not using the dirty "B" word (bust), as he can absolutely keep growing as a player and wind up proving me wrong.  I hope he does.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?

    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL?:
    In Response to Re: LUCIC SALARY BUMPS TO 4 MIL NEXT YR....KESSEL? : I don't think lucic paved the way for this, hes a better player then Steve Avery making the same kind of money.. I was suprised at what he signed for, I really thought his deal would be slightly less then krejci's but i thinnk if you put this season aside and look at this constant offensive improvement (he was a point per game in the playoffs almost) and his age, take into account the big guys take longer to develop, there is alot of evidence to bac kup exactly what he makes.. The kid's not thornton, and up untill his injuries, minutes and stats backed that up.. He has the character and wants to improve.. Plus if we went to trade him most teams in the league would be interested and that alone has to say something.
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    Only an idiot would argue that Lucic isnt a good player (and I can see that some are trying).  But he isnt untouchable.  I loved watching Looch in the playoffs.  He seemed like our only player who crashed the net.  But if you look at what he has due and what he could be signed for right now, I think the former outweighs the latter.  As of this point in time, that makes him overpaid.  I hope he recovers.
     

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