Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from scottgj. Show scottgj's posts

    Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    Just curious to see what people would rather give up to gain salary cap space and or round out the roster.

    For instance, if PC could trade Ryder but have to give up what would be predicted as the higher 2nd round pick next year.............only to get salary cap relief for a very low draft pick.

    or

    Let Wheeler get his money, then trade him for a prospect or draft pick.

    Basically what do people on this board value more, draft picks or the potential in players already playing in the league?
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    I'll take proven success over the unknown all day.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from pissttt. Show pissttt's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    HHHMMM.. i,ll take the sure thing especially the way the bruins draft !
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    Never lose an asset, if he receives 2.6 million then start fielding offers.  He is worth a late first round pick ironically where he should have been picked by Phoenix.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Canbostondoit. Show Canbostondoit's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    Keep Wheels until deadline and put Ryder on waivers. Do what we can but trading Savard is not on my option list at the moment. I would like to see how good this Seguin is before trading anyone. I mention send Wheels to Toronto for Caputi at deadline. Wait until deadline and see where the Bruins are standing and also the Toronto's standings will be an important factor, then make a decision on Savard.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    Can you trade Wheeler after accepting the amount granted by arbitration?

    I dont think you can.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    I dont see the point in keeping Wheeler around for another year.  We're just goign to have to go through this all again next year.  The kid is clearly out for as much $$ as he can get, and while I dont blame him for that, it really moots the point of "developing him".

    Answer me this, what is the advantage of keeping him for potential if a) he's going to be a FA before said potential is realized and b) he's going to make you outbid everybody once he becomes a FA?

    WALK AWAY!!!!!
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:
    I dont see the point in keeping Wheeler around for another year.  We're just goign to have to go through this all again next year.  The kid is clearly out for as much $$ as he can get, and while I dont blame him for that, it really moots the point of "developing him". Answer me this, what is the advantage of keeping him for potential if a) he's going to be a FA before said potential is realized and b) he's going to make you outbid everybody once he becomes a FA? WALK AWAY!!!!!
    Posted by Drewski5


    1.  It is possible that the B's negotiate with Wheeler during the season, removing the need to go through this again next summer.

    2.  Wheeler was offered more money by Phoenix, but walked away.  That's not someone who is out for the dough.

    3.  It's not like this guy is worthless.  He's a young player with only two NHL seasons who has the ability to score.  This could be his year.  You can't just walk away from that.  Let's say the award is $500K more than anyone would like.  That extra $500K isn't going to save anyone's soul, and it's not going to be the difference maker in any deal.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from huscroft28. Show huscroft28's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    I'll take Dmitri Kristich.

    Seriously, I don't think the Bruins can walk away from the arbitrator's award - whatever it is.  If the B's walk, they get nothing for good ol' Blake, so they should sign him to the amount assigned and dump him at the trade deadline if he doesn't produce. 

    At 6'5" and 205 lbs., your heart should be right in the middle of your spoked-B.  Time to wake up, Blake - you need to produce.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:
    Can you trade Wheeler after accepting the amount granted by arbitration? I dont think you can.
    Posted by Drewski5


    Drew,
    I see nothing in the language that would prevent a team from signing a guy and moving him, on that same note though I did not see any language that says the player is bound by the ruling of the arbitrator...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up?? : 1.  It is possible that the B's negotiate with Wheeler during the season, removing the need to go through this again next summer. 2.  Wheeler was offered more money by Phoenix, but walked away.  That's not someone who is out for the dough. 3.  It's not like this guy is worthless.  He's a young player with only two NHL seasons who has the ability to score.  This could be his year.  You can't just walk away from that.  Let's say the award is $500K more than anyone would like.  That extra $500K isn't going to save anyone's soul, and it's not going to be the difference maker in any deal.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    I completely agree on pt 3.  I dont want wheeler off the team because I think he's useless nor do I want him off the team because I dislike him (even though I do dislike him).  I want him off the team because I think that Ryder has more 2010 goals in him than Wheeler does, and I hate the idea of salary dumping Savard. 

    I view walking away as a less evil than a) burying Ryder and b) trading Savard for peanuts, which is why I am for it.  But I do agree that if possible it would be nice to carry Wheeler.

    Regarding pt 2, after going to arbitration with the bruins, I seriously doubt that he would take a home town discount to stay here.  So my point is, even if he breaks out this year, its not like we are going to have a good player under contract making short money.  So to me, best case scenario is that Wheeler breaks out and we have to P-A-Y him.  We'll never have the luxury of having Wheeler signed to an undervalued contract (like we had w/ lucic 2 years ago).  To me, this moots the youth advantage that wheeler possesses.

    Now if you can trade Wheeler this year, then that makes me feel a bit better.  Because that means that when its time for Sturm to come back, we'll have the option of trading Thomas , trading Savard, sending Ryder down or trading Wheeler.  If this final/italicized option does indeed exist, than I'm actually for signing him because it implies that we dont have to make a decision now.

    Can we trade him if we take the arbitration amt?  I thought I read somewhere that we cant.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    Drew/Nas,
    I think when the season ends, wheeler will be negoiated again, i think it would take a special performance for PC to negoiate with him mid season (you still have no idea what your getting) or his over all  (cliche) compete level.

    I think Drew in regards to money, wheeler has no loyalties to the bruins is probably more your point then him wanting the biggest deal possible, I think in phoenix he proved it wasn't "only" about money, but its not like he took a huge pay cut in coming to the bruins, 50k I believe, not a big deal for a kid coming out of college to go from making nothing to 850k as opposed to 900k if it means going to a better team. When the numbers hit 3.5m verse 2.6 I think it'll mean alot more.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    That's curious, roler, because you almost always hear that this is binding arbitration except for the teams' walk-away option.  Even then, teams can only walk away from a very limited number of arbitration decisions.  The distinction might simply be that the arbitrator cannot force a player to sign, but the player is no longer a Free Agent of any stripe once he files for arbitration, meaning his option is not playing NHL hockey.  I'd also be surprised to learn they could continue to negotiate.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:
    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up?? : Drew, I see nothing in the language that would prevent a team from signing a guy and moving him, on that same note though I did not see any language that says the player is bound by the ruling of the arbitrator...
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    Im currently looking for it (while on a conference call, lol)...

    I think you're right, actually.  I found language that says if a team matches an offer sheet to one of their RFA's (electing to retain the player under the terms of the offer sheet), such team cannot trade the player for a year.  That's a different scenario and probably where Ive seen the wording.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:
    That's curious, roler, because you almost always hear that this is binding arbitration except for the teams' walk-away option.  Even then, teams can only walk away from a very limited number of arbitration decisions.  The distinction might simply be that the arbitrator cannot force a player to sign, but the player is no longer a Free Agent of any stripe once he files for arbitration, meaning his option is not playing NHL hockey.  I'd also be surprised to learn they could continue to negotiate.
    Posted by Bookboy007


    I believe it to be true, but? I looked and couldnt find it in either the arbitration section, the article pertaining to it, nor the rfa section.. Very easily could exist some where else..
    I supposed its not included because usually terms are not super far off and only applies to a small number of players...
    It also leaves the player with 0 leverage, once the team signs him, he would have to sit out the nhl till he can force a trade since he would not be accruing years of service towards free agency, it would take a lot to not play a season over 200k I guess.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:
    I'll take proven success over the unknown all day.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot


    Can we call it proven performance?  Because I'm not prepared to say Wheeler's a success averaging 19g and 40p (roughly).  I think it's important in this context, too.  All that same day, you have to be looking at your team and wondering how to make it better.  Wheeler has proven that he can perform at the 40pt level, but he hasn't proven that he's improving.  In that scenario, Ryder's numbers are just as proven, and the pick gives you the potential to get a player who can out-perform both (not a sure thing, but at least a shot).

    In terms of the thread, then, I don't think I can say a) or b).  It's entirely contingent on who the players are, what the pick is, and what's driving the need for cap room.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:
    Drew/Nas, I think when the season ends, wheeler will be negoiated again, i think it would take a special performance for PC to negoiate with him mid season (you still have no idea what your getting) or his over all  (cliche) compete level. I think Drew in regards to money, wheeler has no loyalties to the bruins is probably more your point then him wanting the biggest deal possible, I think in phoenix he proved it wasn't "only" about money, but its not like he took a huge pay cut in coming to the bruins, 50k I believe, not a big deal for a kid coming out of college to go from making nothing to 850k as opposed to 900k if it means going to a better team. When the numbers hit 3.5m verse 2.6 I think it'll mean alot more.
    Posted by rolerhoky19


    Exactly.  If player x is a 26 yr old free agent, was kept on his former team since age 23 due to his "potential" , and has no loyalties to said former team, then those three years of development have been wasted.

    Now if the team salary dumped its line 1 center to develop player x, costing them a cup run, then they have sacrificed a 2-3 yr championship window and not realized much value for it (because the kid is now a free agent , in his prime, and the former (screwed) team has no advantage from having been the ones who developed him).  Thats a pretty big fail. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    NAS, you've got facts for days.  Can you recall an occurence when a team chose to keep the player for the amount granted via arbitration, but then turned around and traded that player during the following season? 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    BB-
    I think proven success, in terms of reaching the NHL is fair, but would I keep every nhl player over a pick, which would kind of be NAS statement, probably not..

    I mean we did trade kessel, proven scorer (though it is still arguable where his ceiling it) for draft picks and there have been few complaints about that lately..

    Drew,
    I wouldnt call it a waste, everyone keeps talking about protecting your asset (nearly at all cost) but I made the point being unwilling to walk away from an RFA to protect him as an asset with out getting a return would be no different then dumping all your upcoming UFA's at the deadline if you dont think you can get a deal for them.. 
     your still getting 3 years of production at a value (I would say any player on his EL who is playing at the nhl level is a value regardless of production)
    If were in contention come march and Chara is clearly not going to sign with the bruins in the off season I would not want to trade him just because he can bring us back a value.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bhsreddevil12. Show bhsreddevil12's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up?? : Exactly.  If player x is a 26 yr old free agent, was kept on his former team since age 23 due to his "potential" , and has no loyalties to said former team, then those three years of development have been wasted. Now if the team salary dumped its line 1 center to develop player x, costing them a cup run, then they have sacrificed a 2-3 yr championship window and not realized much value for it (because the kid is now a free agent , in his prime, and the former (screwed) team has no advantage from having been the ones who developed him).  Thats a pretty big fail. 
    Posted by Drewski5[/QUOTE]

    Drew- that last paragraph really sums it up nicely and puts things into perspective. Thanks.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsFanFromMontreal. Show BruinsFanFromMontreal's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    I think you guys are making a big thing out of this.

    I would never offer Wheeler a multi year deal (unless its 2-sided).  he hasnt shown he can play in the NHL regularly.  If you can afford him on a cap limited team, then go for it, if not too bad.

    that will only give 1 extra spot available on roster for kids who want to play in NHL.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:
    I think you guys are making a big thing out of this. I would never offer Wheeler a multi year deal (unless its 2-sided).  he hasnt shown he can play in the NHL regularly.  If you can afford him on a cap limited team, then go for it, if not too bad. that will only give 1 extra spot available on roster for kids who want to play in NHL.
    Posted by BruinsFanFromMontreal


    He has absolutely shown he can play at the NHL, to what level he can play at the NHL is still up in the air.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:
    I think you guys are making a big thing out of this. I would never offer Wheeler a multi year deal (unless its 2-sided).  he hasnt shown he can play in the NHL regularly.  If you can afford him on a cap limited team, then go for it, if not too bad. that will only give 1 extra spot available on roster for kids who want to play in NHL.
    Posted by BruinsFanFromMontreal


    Of course he's shown he can play in the NHL.  Feel free to check his stats before you respond.


     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    Wheeler can play at the NHL level as evidenced by his PK work and his "sometimes" offense. His agent said that Wheeler knows what he needs to work on, but, implied that what wheeler thinks he needs is different than what the Bruins think he needs. In addition, the agent said that he expected the Bruins to accept the arbitration because "6'5 fast skating players are a premium". Wheeler could be a very good player if he does what he is asked to do. He might play with Savard or Kreji since his times with Bergeron were not very good on his part. Because of the Pk work Kreji might be more realistic since Savard is not at his best on PK, but, Wheeler could be Sturm's replacement on PK with Bergeron, although we have yet to se how Campbell/Paille might work on Pk. My vote would be to sign Wheeler, observe how he plays and trade him if both Colborne and Caron develop well in Providence.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Drewski5. Show Drewski5's posts

    Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??

    In Response to Re: Wheeler or a high draft pick, which would you give up??:

    Wheeler can play at the NHL level as evidenced by his PK work and his "sometimes" offense. His agent said that Wheeler knows what he needs to work on, but, implied that what wheeler thinks he needs is different than what the Bruins think he needs. In addition, the agent said that he expected the Bruins to accept the arbitration because "6'5 fast skating players are a premium". Wheeler could be a very good player if he does what he is asked to do. He might play with Savard or Kreji since his times with Bergeron were not very good on his part. Because of the Pk work Kreji might be more realistic since Savard is not at his best on PK, but, Wheeler could be Sturm's replacement on PK with Bergeron, although we have yet to se how Campbell/Paille might work on Pk. My vote would be to sign Wheeler, observe how he plays and trade him if both Colborne and Caron develop well in Providence.
    Posted by Bogie6


    If he gets 2.6 or less, and you can trade him , there really is no point in walking.  My earlier posts were under the impression that you cant trade him for a year, if you accept the arbitration amt.

    But in hindsight , it looks like i was confusing two clauses (if you match an offer sheet to an RFA, you cant turn around and trade the player, which is, obviously, a different scenario)...

     

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