why move savard?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bruinsCupiN09. Show bruinsCupiN09's posts

    why move savard?

    think about it, why are the bruins starting to think about moving to savard? all you have to do is make the simple move of putting bergeron or seguin on the wing, one of the two.

    horton-savy-lucic
    wheeler-krejci-ryder
    recchi-bergeron/seguin-bergeron/seguin
    campbell-paille-thornton

    chara-boychuck
    stuart?-ference
    hunwick-????
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from davecarr. Show davecarr's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    You know, Savard has been dogged his whole career by allegations of his immaturity, and his attitude and character had been called into question in the past.

    It seemed he had grown out of that, and matured into a decent person and a great player.

    However, now that he's on the trading block, I've been using my 20/20 hindsight to see if I can't figure it out:

    -When he got laid out, nobody came to defend him
    -When Thornton eventually fought Cooke, it was more to save face as an organization than to avenge Savard
    -In the now just-as-infamous-too-many-men call, he quickly threw Sobotka under the bus when it was clearly Savard's fault
    -Claude Julien just as quickly threw Savvy under the bus to publicly blame him for the penalty.
    -In a game last season he called Crosby a *ussy and when asked him to fight, Savard mocked him and said Crosby was hiding behind his face shield. Crosby immediately had the equipment manager remove the shield before his next shift. When he followed up with Savard, Savvy skated away and avoided Crosby the rest of the game


    I'm thinking that Savard's attitude, although improved over the course of his career, still has moments where he feels superior, and acts accordingly. If this was my teammate, it would be tolerable but annoying. However, after signing a mega-contract, maybe his ego got a little too big and he started wearing out his welcome in the locker room. 

    In which case, the events of and immediately following game 7 vs Philly might have put people over the edge.

    Not to mention, maybe management blames Savvy for not only the bad penalty, but the way he handled himself throughout.

    PC has talked openly about the mistakes he's made as GM, from the Dave Lewis debacle, to criticizing his own off-season moves last summer and how he didn't focus enough on the chemistry of the team, and how his moves would impact it.

    Maybe some of these moves he's making are not just to improve the on-ice product, but to also improve the locker room, which in turn produces better results on the ice.

    He re-signed Recchi. He let Wideman go (I'm sorry, but as great a person as he probably is, and no matter how good he *can* be, if he was my teammate, I'd loathe his in-game mistakes to the point that like him or not, I'm happier he's gone)

    Maybe unloading Savard is more of a locker-room issue than a game issue, as, like you said, you can easily put one of them on wing.

    And if it IS a locker-room cancer issue, that kind of word will get out to players around the league, and negate the damage to future free agent pools of trading away a player just after signing him long-term
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from TimThomas-god. Show TimThomas-god's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    In Response to Re: why move savard?:
    You know, Savard has been dogged his whole career by allegations of his immaturity, and his attitude and character had been called into question in the past. It seemed he had grown out of that, and matured into a decent person and a great player. However, now that he's on the trading block, I've been using my 20/20 hindsight to see if I can't figure it out: -When he got laid out, nobody came to defend him -When Thornton eventually fought Cooke, it was more to save face as an organization than to avenge Savard -In the now just-as-infamous-too-many-men call, he quickly threw Sobotka under the bus when it was clearly Savard's fault -Claude Julien just as quickly threw Savvy under the bus to publicly blame him for the penalty. -In a game last season he called Crosby a *ussy and when asked him to fight, Savard mocked him and said Crosby was hiding behind his face shield. Crosby immediately had the equipment manager remove the shield before his next shift. When he followed up with Savard, Savvy skated away and avoided Crosby the rest of the game I'm thinking that Savard's attitude, although improved over the course of his career, still has moments where he feels superior, and acts accordingly. If this was my teammate, it would be tolerable but annoying. However, after signing a mega-contract, maybe his ego got a little too big and he started wearing out his welcome in the locker room.  In which case, the events of and immediately following game 7 vs Philly might have put people over the edge. Not to mention, maybe management blames Savvy for not only the bad penalty, but the way he handled himself throughout. PC has talked openly about the mistakes he's made as GM, from the Dave Lewis debacle, to criticizing his own off-season moves last summer and how he didn't focus enough on the chemistry of the team, and how his moves would impact it. Maybe some of these moves he's making are not just to improve the on-ice product, but to also improve the locker room, which in turn produces better results on the ice. He re-signed Recchi. He let Wideman go (I'm sorry, but as great a person as he probably is, and no matter how good he *can* be, if he was my teammate, I'd loathe his in-game mistakes to the point that like him or not, I'm happier he's gone) Maybe unloading Savard is more of a locker-room issue than a game issue, as, like you said, you can easily put one of them on wing. And if it IS a locker-room cancer issue, that kind of word will get out to players around the league, and negate the damage to future free agent pools of trading away a player just after signing him long-term
    Posted by davecarr

    All great points.  I've been wondering the same thing myself.  And just to add to what you said:

    • PC re-signed Ference purely for his locker room presence.  I don't think he would give an often-injured defenseman 2 million+ for the next few years based on the numbers he put up (1-15-16) in only 47 games last year.
    • I was listening to James Murphy yesterday on Sportsdesk.  He said Bruins management drafted Knight, Spooner, etc. based on their "work ethic" and their "character."
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    In Response to Re: why move savard?:
    You know, Savard has been dogged his whole career by allegations of his immaturity, and his attitude and character had been called into question in the past. It seemed he had grown out of that, and matured into a decent person and a great player. However, now that he's on the trading block, I've been using my 20/20 hindsight to see if I can't figure it out: -When he got laid out, nobody came to defend him -When Thornton eventually fought Cooke, it was more to save face as an organization than to avenge Savard -In the now just-as-infamous-too-many-men call, he quickly threw Sobotka under the bus when it was clearly Savard's fault -Claude Julien just as quickly threw Savvy under the bus to publicly blame him for the penalty. -In a game last season he called Crosby a *ussy and when asked him to fight, Savard mocked him and said Crosby was hiding behind his face shield. Crosby immediately had the equipment manager remove the shield before his next shift. When he followed up with Savard, Savvy skated away and avoided Crosby the rest of the game I'm thinking that Savard's attitude, although improved over the course of his career, still has moments where he feels superior, and acts accordingly. If this was my teammate, it would be tolerable but annoying. However, after signing a mega-contract, maybe his ego got a little too big and he started wearing out his welcome in the locker room.  In which case, the events of and immediately following game 7 vs Philly might have put people over the edge. Not to mention, maybe management blames Savvy for not only the bad penalty, but the way he handled himself throughout. PC has talked openly about the mistakes he's made as GM, from the Dave Lewis debacle, to criticizing his own off-season moves last summer and how he didn't focus enough on the chemistry of the team, and how his moves would impact it. Maybe some of these moves he's making are not just to improve the on-ice product, but to also improve the locker room, which in turn produces better results on the ice. He re-signed Recchi. He let Wideman go (I'm sorry, but as great a person as he probably is, and no matter how good he *can* be, if he was my teammate, I'd loathe his in-game mistakes to the point that like him or not, I'm happier he's gone) Maybe unloading Savard is more of a locker-room issue than a game issue, as, like you said, you can easily put one of them on wing. And if it IS a locker-room cancer issue, that kind of word will get out to players around the league, and negate the damage to future free agent pools of trading away a player just after signing him long-term
    Posted by davecarr


    Another total rumor that I heard was that he tries to bang everything in sight.  Total rumor from one of my pickup hockey guys.  Said he has a white range rover and cruises town for backseat activity.  I wonder if he tapped someone's wife or girlfriend or made moves on them.  Total total speculation, but it would be a neat explanation for  everything.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    In Response to Re: why move savard?:
    In Response to Re: why move savard? : All great points.  I've been wondering the same thing myself.  And just to add to what you said: PC re-signed Ference purely for his locker room presence.  I don't think he would give an often-injured defenseman 2 million+ for the next few years based on the numbers he put up (1-15-16) in only 47 games last year. I was listening to James Murphy yesterday on Sportsdesk.  He said Bruins management drafted Knight, Spooner, etc. based on their "work ethic" and their "character."
    Posted by TimThomas-god



    Which is something else I can't figure out.  Ference and that bunch of idiot player reps did the unforgiveable as far as union reps go.  I'd be ticked off at him forever.  So I can't figure that out.

    Next thing I'm wondering about is if they are over compensating for the character thing.  Obviously skipped over Kabanov for exactly that reason (as well as a lot of other teams, but still...)

    And then there's Horton...  (?)
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TimThomas-god. Show TimThomas-god's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    In Response to Re: why move savard?:
    In Response to Re: why move savard? : Which is something else I can't figure out.  Ference and that bunch of idiot player reps did the unforgiveable as far as union reps go.  I'd be ticked off at him forever.  So I can't figure that out. Next thing I'm wondering about is if they are over compensating for the character thing.  Obviously skipped over Kabanov for exactly that reason (as well as a lot of other teams, but still...) And then there's Horton...  (?)
    Posted by BadHabitude

    Yeah, it's all very puzzling.  But I will say, from what I saw of Horton, it seems his issue was simply the fact that he was playing for a cr_ppy team.  People said he had a bad work ethic/showed "no heartbeat" but just look at some of his fights.  It looks to me as if he's frustrated more than anything.  As for Savard, I really think the "breaking point" was when he kind of threw Sobotka under the bus.  Even Julien called Savvy out, becuase it WAS his fault the too many men penalty was called.  If you combine this with Neely's promotion to President, I think all signs indicate Savard will be gone by next year.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from wallydouglas. Show wallydouglas's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    If they move savard for whatever reason, heres why i am going to miss, savard to  murry and now horton goal after goal after goal, ala oates to neely or janney to neely. the combo is there or the distinct possiblity of it and we may never see it.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from davecarr. Show davecarr's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    I brought up the Union issue a few times during the course of last year as maybe a reason why the team seemed to lack chemistry, maybe there was a major division in the locker room.

    Perhaps, after Ference stepped down as team rep, he worked to mend fences, and won over a majority of his teammates. Perhaps just one or two holdouts still held it against him, and kept the animosity, perhaps open hostility in the locker room. Kept it fresh in people's minds, or simply kept up an attitude against Ference that eventually mired the entire locker room.

    Maybe Wideman and Savard were still holding it against him, even though everyone else moved on.

    total speculation, but to be honest, I thought Ference would be moved by season end once the drama with the union unfolded. The fact he was extended indicated to me that perhaps Team-Ference was much more well liked than Team-Savard?




    Oh bloody hell, someone stab me in the eye for making a Twilight reference?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from watchtower. Show watchtower's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    In Response to why move savard?:
    think about it, why are the bruins starting to think about moving to savard? all you have to do is make the simple move of putting bergeron or seguin on the wing, one of the two. horton-savy-lucic wheeler-krejci-ryder recchi-bergeron/seguin-bergeron/seguin campbell-paille-thornton chara-boychuck stuart?-ference hunwick-????
    Posted by bruinsCupiN09


     Very perplexing. It has to be about money. Savard has played better two way hockey as under Julien, and of course, he's a perennial scoring leader with his assists. The gm feels he has to move him because of the current strength, and "potential" for the B's center position. Thomas will probably stay for two more years,as Rask continues to develope.. I'm thinking management wants to deal Mark for a winger or a another d-man, as part of a package with other players.As for what goes on with Savard in the locker room, who knows. On one hand you have rumors of him causing friction, and on the other he recently committed to Boston, with a pretty fair contract.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TimThomas-god. Show TimThomas-god's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    In Response to Re: why move savard?:
    I brought up the Union issue a few times during the course of last year as maybe a reason why the team seemed to lack chemistry, maybe there was a major division in the locker room. Perhaps, after Ference stepped down as team rep, he worked to mend fences, and won over a majority of his teammates. Perhaps just one or two holdouts still held it against him, and kept the animosity, perhaps open hostility in the locker room. Kept it fresh in people's minds, or simply kept up an attitude against Ference that eventually mired the entire locker room. Maybe Wideman and Savard were still holding it against him, even though everyone else moved on. total speculation, but to be honest, I thought Ference would be moved by season end once the drama with the union unfolded. The fact he was extended indicated to me that perhaps Team-Ference was much more well liked than Team-Savard? Oh bloody hell, someone stab me in the eye for making a Twilight reference?
    Posted by davecarr

    That seems to make sense.  But I still question PC for signing Savard (long term no less), when he knew that there were issues in the locker-room.  It seems to me that what he has done these past few weeks is kind of making up for the poor chemistry of last season.  Some people may overlook chemistry, but I think it's a huge part of determining a team's success.  In 2008-2009, the Bruins were one of the leagues best teams, WITH character guys like Ward, Yelle, Hnidy, etc. on the team.  You saw how bad the Bruins were last year with poor team chemistry.  Maybe PC is trying to change all that.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from saultont. Show saultont's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    Sign posts seem to indicate some kind of inhouse problem....if its so then the captain and leader of this team is under achieving...namely Chara...maybe a new sweater sporting the big C is needed....a vote by the players themselves who know more about this than any of us would rectify things in my thinking...Ward had indicated Chara was a good captain but maybe the room atmosphere has changed since he left...and maybe we are over analysing things!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Raskman. Show Raskman's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    Bob McKenzie TSNBobMcKenzie IF Marc Savard goes to TOR, and there is a chance it may happen, Kaberle won't be part of it. It would be a "softer" trade.

    "Soft" deal doesn't involve significant roster players or high end draft pick(s). If BOS moves Savard, with that contract, return not high.


    I ask the question again....why and the hell are we so desperate to drop such a cap friendly contract?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from yaz16. Show yaz16's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    He did mature and supported his teammates. But i think something might have happened even before the Sobokta incident that soured relationships. The sobokta incident sealed it

    Julien also was just as dumb to throw Savard under the bus (not as directly as Savard did towards Sobokta). Team issues should stay in the dressing room

    In any case because the collapse can't go unaccounted for the bruins org decided to get rid of guys like wideman, sobokta and savard next vs getting rid of the coach

    I like savard and he is a good player but sometimes a change is mandatory.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    How could it be softer than Kaberle?


    Sounds like the best deal is no deal. If it's a choice dump clod hopper.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from cad11. Show cad11's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    I don't get any of this. The Bruins just signed him to a L-T deal in the spring. How can so much have changed between now and then?
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from bruins248. Show bruins248's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    ok i am a firm believer in not trading savard, but i heard this offer and its a good fair offer.
    it is 
    savard, bergeron, and seguin for malkin staal and a first round draft pick.

    sounds good to me 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bruinsfan084evr. Show bruinsfan084evr's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    savard is the best player on the bruins right now works well on the PP,trade savard what are people nuts ,like i said about kessel last year ,no savard = no cup contender for this team this year  
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from TimThomas-god. Show TimThomas-god's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    I like Savard, but the Bruins did manage to get the the Eastern Conference Semifinals without him.  When he returned: historic collapse.  I don't know if that's just a coincidence, but... 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from croc. Show croc's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    Before they collapsed he scored the winning goal in game 1 and helped get them to 3 up. Krejci going down and Gagne coming back tipped the balance.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TimThomas-god. Show TimThomas-god's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    In Response to Re: why move savard?:
    Before they collapsed he scored the winning goal in game 1 and helped get them to 3 up. Krejci going down and Gagne coming back tipped the balance.
    Posted by croc


    He did score the game winning goal in game 3, but other than that, he was pretty non-exisistent.  1G-1A-2PTS and a +3 in those three games (nothing spectacular) and 1-2-3 (+2) from the entire series.  He wasn't awful, but he wasn't really a game-changer for most of those games.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from mxx. Show mxx's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    Talk of trading Savvy should be just silly chatter!

    If Chia is serious about it then he has some serious head issues.

    He just signed him, he's a big pnt producer, great on PP, Bs need someone that can help put the puck in the net and his deal is cap friendly!

    Do you really care if and who the heck he's bagging, I hope he has a great time!

    Why the heck did Chia just sign the guy and give him a NTC? Does Chia have his head on straight?

    How long is it going to be untill we hear that we should trade Seguin for a couple of picks future picks? Maybe by Nov. we'll start reading how the Globe's KPD wants to see Segiun moved and then on this forum we'll be reading  about the speculation on what we could get for him. 

    I hope this Savvy trade talk is just silly fan chatter, because if Chia is looking to move him then Chia needs medication! ..... AND Neely should take all his pens away so he can't sign any more long term deals with guys he doen't really want and will try and trade them before the 1st day of the new deal.

    If this is true Mr. Chia, Please get some help and stay away from all the pens to avoid signing deals with guys you don't want---PLEASE.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from TryToBearIt. Show TryToBearIt's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    Why do Bruins fans look for or invent reasons to rationalize horrible moves by management?

    Half of you talked yourselves into believing Thornton for Sturm, Primeau and Stuart was a good deal b/c (pick one:) Joe was soft, not a "winner", had no "heart", etc.

    it's all nonsense.

    Talent is talent, and Savard is THE most talented center the Bruins have. Trading him would be IDIOTIC on a million levels, not the least of which is that they just acquired a big winger he can feed who can actually score goals.

    Not to mention: Did he or did he not sign long term for the Bruins a cap-friendly deal that ends up being much less than he could have recieved signing short term elsewhere AND in the process said all the right things about the Bruins beingh a class organization he wants to play w/for a long time and win a Cup with AND told any free agent who would listen this would be a great place to play.

    Trade him after all that and you basically put up a sign that says: "We're liars. Wes ign guys long-term, then throw them overboard first chance we get. We're not to be trusted." That was basically the truth w/Harry in charge for years anyway but now you'd hope in the Neely as Prez. era they'd learn their lesson.

    Mark my words: Trading Savard--if they do it--will be a moronic move on par w/the disastrous Thornton trade and will set this organization back another 5 years.

    You got too many centers? For crying out loud, teach the new kid how to play wing and STFup about trading savard already!!!!
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from TimThomas-god. Show TimThomas-god's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    In Response to Re: why move savard?:
    Why do Bruins fans look for or invent reasons to rationalize horrible moves by management? Half of you talked yourselves into believing Thornton for Sturm, Primeau and Stuart was a good deal b/c (pick one:) Joe was soft, not a "winner", had no "heart", etc. it's all nonsense. Talent is talent, and Savard is THE most talented center the Bruins have. Trading him would be IDIOTIC on a million levels, not the least of which is that they just acquired a big winger he can feed who can actually score goals. Not to mention: Did he or did he not sign long term for the Bruins a cap-friendly deal that ends up being much less than he could have recieved signing short term elsewhere AND in the process said all the right things about the Bruins beingh a class organization he wants to play w/for a long time and win a Cup with AND told any free agent who would listen this would be a great place to play. Trade him after all that and you basically put up a sign that says: "We're liars. Wes ign guys long-term, then throw them overboard first chance we get. We're not to be trusted." That was basically the truth w/Harry in charge for years anyway but now you'd hope in the Neely as Prez. era they'd learn their lesson. Mark my words: Trading Savard--if they do it--will be a moronic move on par w/the disastrous Thornton trade and will set this organization back another 5 years. You got too many centers? For crying out loud, teach the new kid how to play wing and STFup about trading savard already!!!!
    Posted by TryToBearIt


    1) Joe Thornton isn't a winner.  He hasn't done anything but choke in the playoffs while on the Sharks.

    2) The length and clauses in his contract ARE stupid, but PC didn't know 6 months ago that the Bruins were going to land Seguin.  The Bruins have an abundance of centers, but have holes at forward and D.  Trading a center, regardless of who it is, makes sense for the team.

    3) We don't know what the return for Savard will be.  Many are speculating the Bruins will get nothing more than a bag of pucks.  Based on what?  Savard is a great player and his contract is cap-friendly.  They'll get a significant forward or D-man in return.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from TryToBearIt. Show TryToBearIt's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    In Response to Re: why move savard?:
    In Response to Re: why move savard? : 1) Joe Thornton isn't a winner.  He hasn't done anything but choke in the playoffs while on the Sharks. 2) The length and clauses in his contract ARE stupid, but PC didn't know 6 months ago that the Bruins were going to land Seguin.  The Bruins have an abundance of centers, but have holes at forward and D.  Trading a center, regardless of who it is, makes sense for the team. 3) We don't know what the return for Savard will be.  Many are speculating the Bruins will get nothing more than a bag of pucks.  Based on what?  Savard is a great player and his contract is cap-friendly.  They'll get a significant forward or D-man in return.
    Posted by TimThomas-god


    Unbelievable.

    So: just to be clear, b/c I want to get this straight: Because Joe Thornton--perneially one of the top point totalers in the NHL-- isn't a "winner"....i.e. his team hasn't won the Cup yet...you're perfectly fine with getting Sturm, Primeau, and Stuart for one of the best players in the game? I just want to make sure I have that right: Thonton for Sturm (all but done), Primeau (hahahahahahaha) and Stuart (a total bust), was a GOOD trade for the Bruins b/c Thornton isn't a "winner."

    Honestly, THIS is why the Bruins haven't won a Cup in 38 years--b/c people like you buy that utter hogwash from management.

    Here's a quick lesson: Talent is talent is talent. The teams with the most talent win. Period. Trade away your talent b/c you don't want to pay them, or for reasons more idiotic than that (i.e. Oates calls out mgt. and their pride gets hurt--so he's shipped away) and you pay for it with year after year of playoff failure.

    The Bruins are the poster child for that sort of behavior and trading Savard would only be the latest chapter in a sad, pathetic saga.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from TimThomas-god. Show TimThomas-god's posts

    Re: why move savard?

    In Response to Re: why move savard?:
    In Response to Re: why move savard? : Unbelievable. So: just to be clear, b/c I want to get this straight: Because Joe Thornton--perneially one of the top point totalers in the NHL-- isn't a "winner"....i.e. his team hasn't won the Cup yet...you're perfectly fine with getting Sturm, Primeau, and Stuart for one of the best players in the game? I just want to make sure I have that right: Thonton for Sturm (all but done), Primeau (hahahahahahaha) and Stuart (a total bust), was a GOOD trade for the Bruins b/c Thornton isn't a "winner." Honestly, THIS is why the Bruins haven't won a Cup in 38 years--b/c people like you buy that utter hogwash from management. Here's a quick lesson: Talent is talent is talent. The teams with the most talent win. Period. Trade away your talent b/c you don't want to pay them, or for reasons more idiotic than that (i.e. Oates calls out mgt. and their pride gets hurt--so he's shipped away) and you pay for it with year after year of playoff failure. The Bruins are the poster child for that sort of behavior and trading Savard would only be the latest chapter in a sad, pathetic saga.
    Posted by TryToBearIt


    Take some ritalin spazzy mcgee because I never said I liked the Thornton trade.  All I said was that, when people say "Thorton's not a winner", they're right.  Thornton isn't a winner, but that doesn't mean the trade wasn't bad.
     

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