Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending : I am thrilled to see this thread close on a E.O. Wilson reference.  Well done Isla! Bet he's a Bruins fan too.
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]
    Fletch, do you think Barch will run anyone else tonight? I think he'd run someone like that every time he stepped on the ice if he didn't think there was a price to pay for his actions.......... I guess we'll see.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Griswal65. Show Griswal65's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending:
    [QUOTE]I thought it was about as good as a fight can be, when both guys are wearing helmets and shields. I was delighted to see Marchand (one of the top 5 point producers on the team) stop pounding his hand into another player's helmet.  I thought he tried to through some inside bombs when he had the chance, instead of just playing it safe.  If both guys took their helmets off, it would have been better.  The slew foot was bad form.  The fight was just fine.  But, if you hate the guy to begin with, you probably look at other things.
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    I agree, the swede's helmut shots were nothing and Marchy caught him 2-3 x flush at the end. Why does everyone see that March got whooped here ?? It can't always be a Hnidy-type beatdfown when Nifty Niski is involved....    
     
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    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending:
    [QUOTE]At least Donald Fehr is saying the right thing, that the findings regarding CTE in Derek Boogaard's brain should be seriously considered by everyone associated with the game. With more information and education on the subject, I think you might see those player poll numbers in favour of fighting begin to drop. These guys have families and futures to think about. With this comment from Fehr there is hope for the NHLPA afterall. An issue like this could be where it finds its mojo. Player safety and protection - if the UNION doesn't do it, Bettman certainly won't - these guys are just horses to him - "You feed em only so much so's they know they're hungry." Bettman sounds like the Mayor in 'Jaws' - "Oh, the beach will be open, Chief Brody!"
    Posted by gord11[/QUOTE]
    You realize this comes across as "He's a great leader because he's saying something I agree with!  That other guy isn't because he has an opinion I don't want to hear!" right?

    Actually, I take that back, Bettman said this:
    "We play a very fast-paced, physical game in a closed environment. So, I think people need to take a deep breath and not overreact. It's important to react and it's something we're monitoring closely, so I don't want to be viewed as pollyanna-ish on the subject."

    Which is essentially the same thing.  We're going to keep an eye on developments and react rationally.
     
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    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    DrCC, Fehr just said the thing that most closely resembles a compassionate response. If I am a member of Derek Boogaard's family reading Bettman's response, I'm incensed by its' cold calculation, its' abdication of any responsibility, by its lack of regard for the young man's life. But hey, maybe that's just me.

    islamorada, you make fighting sound like it's something that just happens to somebody - like you're walking in NYC and a piano falls on you.
    I'll say it again; sure all those things you mention have inherent risks and could, when more brains are deidicated to science, show CTE for various reasons.
    All I've ever said here is, take any of those activities - extreme mountian climbing, heading a soccer ball, walking in NYC and THEN add 200, 300 fist fights.

    Fist fighting added to ANY activity, immediately makes that activity more dangerous in the short and long term. The threat of fist fighting does not deter the fist fighting, nor create less inherent danger in the activity overall.

    But I would ask, islamorad, If fighting is not a problem -  and can't be successfully proven so, can't be scientifically linked with CTE, why limit it?

    PS...
    Cue dezaruchi...masterdebater, thanks for your constant analysis of...well..me. you're really helping me through this - helping to make me, not just a better blogger, but a better person.
    Here's another stupid movie reference;
    "You had me at, "Go f*#k yourself!".
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending:
    [QUOTE]DrCC, Fehr just said the thing that most closely resembles a compassionate response. If I am a member of Derek Boogaard's family reading Bettman's response, I'm incensed by its' cold calculation, its' abdication of any responsibility, by its lack of regard for the young man's life. But hey, maybe that's just me. islamorada, you make fighting sound like it's something that just happens to somebody - like you're walking in NYC and a piano falls on you. I'll say it again; sure all those things you mention have inherent risks and could, when more brains are deidicated to science, show CTE for various reasons. All I've ever said here is, take any of those activities - extreme mountian climbing, heading a soccer ball, walking in NYC and THEN add 200, 300 fist fights. Fist fighting added to ANY activity, immediately makes that activity more dangerous in the short and long term. The threat of fist fighting does not deter the fist fighting, nor create less inherent danger in the activity overall. But I would ask, islamorad, If fighting is not a problem -  and can't be successfully proven so, can't be scientifically linked with CTE, why limit it? PS... Cue dezaruchi...masterdebater, thanks for your constant analysis of...well..me. you're really helping me through this - helping to make me, not just a better blogger, but a better person. Here's another stupid movie reference; "You had me at, "Go f*#k yourself!".
    Posted by gord11[/QUOTE]
    gord...you refuse to make any mention of the fact that legal checks and normal everyday hockey plays are responsible for more concussions than fighting. is the problem fighting or concussions? should there be no-contact hockey? you can rid the game of fighting and concussions will still happen, undoubtedly. it's inherent to the physical nature of the game. what does 200-300 hard checks into the boards do to your brain? brother... waking up everyday is dangerous. life is dangerous. the fact that you believe everyone should live in a bubble, avoid all risky behavior, and try to live as long as possible is YOUR VIEW ON LIFE. i bet you're not much of a risk taker. some people are, and they enjoy laying it on the line. just as some people are happy to work in a cubicle 40 hrs a week. what they are doing is not illegal, no innocent people are being hurt, and it's done willingly. dude i've had at least five good knocks to my noggin, should i immediately stop doing whatever it was that caused those incidents? never wrestle again, never go outside and play with my friends, never have too much to drink(ok you may have a point here), never do gymnastics,  never drive a car? i've chosen to do all those things, and will keep doing them, because that's what i enjoy to do. i've hurt no one else in the process. the thing is i don't try to paint a rosy picture of life, 2.3 kids, picket fence, live to be 90, 35 grandchildren, one marriage, retire in florida. the reality of life is OK WITH ME. not everything works out the way you hope it would, and i don't need to be "protected from the real world". that is for children...you know the ones who still believe in santa clause.      
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    Gordo, limited fighting not eliminating fighting means it is not the focus of the game.  That is obvious.  The fighting aspect is the players metting out a cheapshot with a stick, like butt ending which is not always seen by referees.  Other stick infractions are not handled correctly.  Answer this if you don't stubbornly adhere to your single thought on the subject, why are there retired hockey fighters walking around today if in fact CTE is linked to fighting?  I like DrCC Bettman quote above btw.  
     
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    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending:
    [QUOTE]DrCC, Fehr just said the thing that most closely resembles a compassionate response. If I am a member of Derek Boogaard's family reading Bettman's response, I'm incensed by its' cold calculation, its' abdication of any responsibility, by its lack of regard for the young man's life. But hey, maybe that's just me. 
    Posted by gord11[/QUOTE]
    Pretty much.  I'm more concerned with content of the message that the particulars of how it was delivered.  To me, the difference between Fehr's and Bettman's responses is that Fehr gave the zero content answer "we'll talk about it."  Bettman, meanwhile, made the apparent mistake of giving his opinion of the importance of the study.  An opinion I happen to share - there are a lot of questions to answer before it becomes a cause for action.
    Does this happen to many players, is there a genetic component?
    How does the damage compare to that sustained by players that never fought?
    Did his pain-killer addiction play a role?  He may have been more reckless with the blows he let himself take because he couldn't feel any.  

    What would I like to see?  I'd like to see the NHL and NHLPA get a-hold of all retired NHL/AHL players and get them examined to see how the mental quality of life compares between fighters/non-fighters as well as to their peers.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    hey gord glad to see you're still trying to prove your point. Funny how this (see link) happened in New York . 
    To me I see a bunch of fans cheering the fighting.  I'm guess the majority at the game loved it. 
    You can understand why the Board of Governors and Bettman will not budge on the fighting issue right now and this is only the marketing side of it.
    Then there's the issues that Fletch , Dez and Crowls have brought up.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Tbtn_1mTUM
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from callodthedom19. Show callodthedom19's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    Who is this Gord and why do I want to punch him? I can't stand people who have their own view but refuse to acknowledge another.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending : Pretty much.  I'm more concerned with content of the message that the particulars of how it was delivered.  To me, the difference between Fehr's and Bettman's responses is that Fehr gave the zero content answer "we'll talk about it."  Bettman, meanwhile, made the apparent mistake of giving his opinion of the importance of the study.  An opinion I happen to share - there are a lot of questions to answer before it becomes a cause for action.
     Does this happen to many players, is there a genetic component? How does the damage compare to that sustained by players that never fought? Did his pain-killer addiction play a role?  
    He may have been more reckless with the blows he let himself take because he couldn't feel any.   What would I like to see?  I'd like to see the NHL and NHLPA get a-hold of all retired NHL/AHL players and get them examined to see how the mental quality of life compares between fighters/non-fighters as well as to their peers.
    Posted by DrCC[/QUOTE]

    Thank you DrCC ! 
    This is what I was trying to tell Gord in my earlier posts but I could have come across a little snotty.  Need more proof and more studies before jumping that to conclusions. 
    Even concussions there's much to be studied.  For example they're happening more to hockey players than football players . 
    Why ?
    is it the equipement  ?
    I even heard a theory that is way out !  Because hockey players don't have their feet down flat on the ground their bodies when get impacted cannot absorb the collision. (or something to that effect).

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending:
    [QUOTE]Who is this Gord and why do I want to punch him? I can't stand people who have their own view but refuse to acknowledge another.
    Posted by callodthedom19[/QUOTE]

    Bullie
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    why do i get a feeling in 20 years it will be against the law to leave your home without a helmet on? i hope visors are atleast optional.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    "...you can rid the game of fighting and concussions will still happen, undoubtedly...."

    Yes! - ad nauseum - just not as many.
     
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    DrCC -

    "What would I like to see?  I'd like to see the NHL and NHLPA get a-hold of all retired NHL/AHL players and get them examined to see how the mental quality of life compares between fighters/non-fighters as well as to their peers."

    Nice.
    (and, yes, 'nice' because I agree with you)
     
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    "Answer this if you don't stubbornly adhere to your single thought on the subject, why are there retired hockey fighters walking around today if in fact CTE is linked to fighting?"

    islamorada - Because they're not dead yet? You do know this right? They can't test for CTE on a living brain?
    Former hockey players and most notably those whose careers were marked by a lot of fighting, when they're dead and if they donate their brains to science (which I think you're going to see more and more contact athletes' families will want to do) you will see more CTE, I'm guessing, which might explain, for their families - in those cases where CTE was present - why their loved ones were suffering so; from headaches, depression, dependancy etc.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

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    "Who is this Gord and why do I want to punch him?"

    callodthedom19 - Because I remind you of your mother? Your wife?
    Because you want to keep me 'honest'?
    Because you want to "spark your team"?
    Because, it's the only way you can stay in this League?
    Because you're a bully who's peaked?
    Because you know no other way to express yourself?

    There are so many reasons why you want to punch me, but none of them have anything to do with me.

    Stay the e-tiger you are.

    See, I acknowledged your opinion.


     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from gord11. Show gord11's posts

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    And, thanks BsLegion, your e-nature is really instructive. I mean it.

     
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    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    whatever happened to "live and let live". these are grown men, willingly participating in a dangerous sport. these are personal decisions to be made by the players themselves. not by me, you, a coach, a nuerologist, anyone. if you're such the humanitarian (as it seems you want to save the world from ever receiving another concussion), i will have to assume you donate all of your time to charities, house the homeless, feed the hungry, generate no waste, moonlight as a super hero, care for the sick, live off the grid, donate your organs(or already have)...good on you if you do just one of these things. i think it's funny that there is this revelation that getting hit in the head might not be good for you. didn't everyone notice the decline of muhammed ali? why is boxing still allowed? this is people punching each other in the head for a living. oh yeah... the are doing it of their own free will, with supervision. kinda like hockey. i guess you're looking forward to the day when we are told what to eat for dinner, because we aren't smart enough to eat healthy.   
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending:
    [QUOTE]DrCC, Fehr just said the thing that most closely resembles a compassionate response. If I am a member of Derek Boogaard's family reading Bettman's response, I'm incensed by its' cold calculation, its' abdication of any responsibility, by its lack of regard for the young man's life. But hey, maybe that's just me. islamorada, you make fighting sound like it's something that just happens to somebody - like you're walking in NYC and a piano falls on you. I'll say it again; sure all those things you mention have inherent risks and could, when more brains are deidicated to science, show CTE for various reasons. All I've ever said here is, take any of those activities - extreme mountian climbing, heading a soccer ball, walking in NYC and THEN add 200, 300 fist fights. Fist fighting added to ANY activity, immediately makes that activity more dangerous in the short and long term. The threat of fist fighting does not deter the fist fighting, nor create less inherent danger in the activity overall. But I would ask, islamorad, If fighting is not a problem -  and can't be successfully proven so, can't be scientifically linked with CTE, why limit it? PS... Cue dezaruchi...masterdebater, thanks for your constant analysis of...well..me. you're really helping me through this - helping to make me, not just a better blogger, but a better person. Here's another stupid movie reference; "You had me at, "Go f*#k yourself!".
    Posted by gord11[/QUOTE]
    When does the debate start? I was under the impression that you would have to offer up something factual in order to carry your side in a debate. You instead have done nothing but repeat your "fighting is a lie" catch-phrase over and over again while adding nothing else but opinion and hurt feelings. I'm glad I was able to help you be a better person.........although in reality, there was nowhere to go but up.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending:
    [QUOTE]And, thanks BsLegion, your e-nature is really instructive. I mean it.
    Posted by gord11[/QUOTE]

    LOL...
    Remember we're just behind computers giving opinions here . It won't change anything.
     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    Sorry Boston.com does not allow me to directly respond to you Gordo.  You are repeating yourself on the CTE.  I asked why do you think a number of former fighter players still can function without issue?  You replied to DrCC, that was excellent.  He is an excellent poster.  You answered the question through that response.  I only remain as stubborn as you on your one track view of CTE as a  posthumous condition.  I will state there are many factors that can contribute to CTE, so why fighting in hockey?  Thus the remarks on motor cross biking, nascar (where people die), and polo if you will.     
     
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    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    islamorada - you're not operating in good faith here - I've answered your question. I also asked you a question, which you've avoided - if fighting isn't a problem and can't be linked to CTE successfully, as you say, why should it be limited as you say?
    You said it should not be eliminated, just limited. Why, if it's not a problem?

    adkbeesfan - I don't think the League can be seen to be serious about reducing headshots and concussions while at the same time allowing fist-fighting at centre ice. I don't think this is a sustainable stance. as unsustainable as your ridiculous stabs at another anonymous poster's character profile. I could say you sound like a chimp who was taught how to type, but I'm not. Because it's neither fair nor useful.
    And I'm not talking about boxing, I''m talking about hockey where fighting is technically against the rules. This is my opinion. If you believe in free will, like you say, well then act like it

    and dezaruchi - 'hurt feelings'? I got none. You, however have sounded nearly hysterical throughout, tear-stained and angry - like Bettman's your uncle er something - and not exactly the 'font of factual' yerself  

    This is getting fun
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    In Response to Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending:
    [QUOTE]islamorada - you're not operating in good faith here - I've answered your question. I also asked you a question, which you've avoided - if fighting isn't a problem and can't be linked to CTE successfully, as you say, why should it be limited as you say? You said it should not be eliminated, just limited. Why, if it's not a problem? adkbeesfan - I don't think the League can be seen to be serious about reducing headshots and concussions while at the same time allowing fist-fighting at centre ice. I don't think this is a sustainable stance. as unsustainable as your ridiculous stabs at another anonymous poster's character profile. I could say you sound like a chimp who was taught how to type, but I'm not. Because it's neither fair nor useful. And I'm not talking about boxing, I''m talking about hockey where fighting is technically against the rules. This is my opinion. If you believe in free will, like you say, well then act like it and dezaruchi - 'hurt feelings'? I got none. You, however have sounded nearly hysterical throughout, tear-stained and angry - like Bettman's your uncle er something - and not exactly the 'font of factual' yerself   This is getting fun
    Posted by gord11[/QUOTE]
    You know everyone can see what we're writing don't you? I'm interested to hear what I've said that you deem not factual. BTW, for a guy who thinks anyone with a high post count is a member of a cabal, you've sure had a busy week.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Another Hockey Fight, another wussy ending

    Gordo, I did answer your question.  Not enough evidence to prove definitively that CTE is linked to fighting.  Period.  Concussions are a different story.  Thus the comment asking you pointly, why so many ex fighters are still walking around living normal lives, and I might as they chose?  You essentially answered the question by refering to the same diatribe of CTE=fighting or more specifically to CTE has posthumosly been proven in a NHL fighter thus all fighting should end.  Not conclusive!  BTW eliminate motor cross biking as well as many of the riders could be CTE candidates, heh?  NASCAR too.  

    Fighting is not an intrigual part of the game of hockey, otherwise it would be called boxing.  Fighting is a result of stickwork and or cheap play (boarding, charging etc.).  It is a part of the game in that respect, if you read above NAS reference two team tough guys fighting as dancing clowns.  Programed and prearranged fights are stupid.  Thus, limited fighting should be accepted but not all fighting.  Dropping the gloves at the beginning of the game, or two players jumping out of the penalty box (roughing call) and start fighting, well, that crap is not necessary.  

    You are not going to change your mind.  So I will cease to explain my position. It is not acceptable to you.  I taught hs school for 35 years, we will politiely disagree.  
     

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