Avery Waived

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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avery Waived : Ok, sid by side comparison First full season Fleury -80gp 31-35-66-157 (in the mid-80's) Marchand - 77gp 21-20-41-51 Lemieux - 76gp 27-26-53 143 Avery (never had a full season until his third year in the league) 76gp 9-19-28-261 First playoffs Fleury 22gp 5-6-11-24 and a Stanley Cup Marchand 25gp 11-8-19-40 and a Stanley Cup Lemieux  20gp 10-6-16-68 and a Stanley Cup Avery (never made the playoffs until after 7 years as an NHLer) 10 gp 1-4-5-27 and has yet to win a Stanley Cup Based on those numbers I can see the Lemieux comparison is valid as well, but at this point in his career, looking at all four at the same time, I don't see how the Avery comparison is all that valid, and that the Fleury and Lemieux comparisons are more accurate. He doesn't have the offensive punch quite that those two guys had (though e had a better playoffs over a few more games), but otherwise it's close. And his numbers and success at this stage in his career is absolutely nothing like Avery's. He also does not, to this point cross the line as much as any of those players (the fewest regular season PIM by over 90)
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]

    Since you all decided to ignore the actual numbers, let me repost them. At this stage in their careers, a comparison to Avery is absolutely laughable. While not totally accurate (and he does not, I will admit, have Fleury's offensive upside)
    a comparison to Lemieux or Fleury makes way more sense. Folks, in their first full season there's a 210 difference in PIM between Avery and Marchand. How can you possibly compare the two?
    You may as well be comparing Tyler Seguin to Tiger Williams.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    Red.

    My comparison is Ray Ferraro.  Skilled super pest who plays hard. 
    But, did Claude/Theo/Avery get suspended in their 1st year. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    Theo would have been under today's rules, for a spear to the neck. Intentionally headhunted Ducky. Intentionally put the butt of his stick right into Dale's traich. Got a five minute major and (i think-been a long time, so I may be wrong) a game misconduct. Hawerchuk spat blood all over the ice and was out for the game. Brutal, ugly, cheap play.

    Shupe, I know you realize that back in the 80's, suspensions rarely occurred. It's not a fair comparison.

    That said, Ferraro isn't a bad parrellel. But Avery makes no sense at all.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avery Waived : I just named one against the Habs.  You watch what you wanna see.  He had Thornton riding shotgun for half the year and plays on the best fighting team in hockey.  You think he does this with no backup.  Thats the true sign of a coward.  I find it comical that you believe he is not in that mix.  The Bruins Glasses are on too tight Dez.  He has always been a classless person.  In his entire life.  Not just with the Bruins.  His hockey career is littered with this type of behavior.   Again, cheer for him all you want.  But when PK and downie do it dont complain about it.  PK is ten times more valuable to Montreal than BM is.  And why would PK fight Lucic or Horton.  Its a bad trade off and he would lose.   And I know you have played and are smart.  You really believe that guys havent challenged him.  How many times did he line up against someone last year Dez.  Did they focus on every time he was on.  Isnt that where the invites normally come or from bench to bench.  Staged fights are for Thornton.  I know what incidents you are talking about with PK.  But he had 3 more fights than Chara did last year.  I know, no one will fight him.  But he was hiding against Downie.   ;)   I'm 39 Dez.  I forgot more about the bars downtown than he knows. 
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]
    Shupe, I absolutely know that but the way I picture it is funnier.......Wink
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avery Waived : I just named one against the Habs.  You watch what you wanna see.  He had Thornton riding shotgun for half the year and plays on the best fighting team in hockey.  You think he does this with no backup.  Thats the true sign of a coward.  I find it comical that you believe he is not in that mix.  The Bruins Glasses are on too tight Dez.  He has always been a classless person.  In his entire life.  Not just with the Bruins.  His hockey career is littered with this type of behavior.   Again, cheer for him all you want.  But when PK and downie do it dont complain about it.  PK is ten times more valuable to Montreal than BM is.  And why would PK fight Lucic or Horton.  Its a bad trade off and he would lose.   And I know you have played and are smart.  You really believe that guys havent challenged him.  How many times did he line up against someone last year Dez.  Did they focus on every time he was on.  Isnt that where the invites normally come or from bench to bench.  Staged fights are for Thornton.  I know what incidents you are talking about with PK.  But he had 3 more fights than Chara did last year.  I know, no one will fight him.  But he was hiding against Downie.   ;)   I'm 39 Dez.  I forgot more about the bars downtown than he knows. 
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]
    Here's the play you've decided to use as "evidence". I hardly think being smack dab in the middle of everything and then led off by the linesman to be "ducking" anyone.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=251___mEwZA&feature=relmfu.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avery Waived : Here's the play you've decided to use as "evidence". I hardly think being smack dab in the middle of everything and then led off by the linesman to be "ducking" anyone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=251___mEwZA&feature=relmfu.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]
    He does have his gloves off.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    Oh, one more thing about that spear on Hawerchuk, as soon as it happened Boschman went after him, and Fleury skated behind the linesman to avoid retribution. He got better as he got older, but as a rook, Fleury was a complete punk.

     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avery Waived : Here's the play you've decided to use as "evidence". I hardly think being smack dab in the middle of everything and then led off by the linesman to be "ducking" anyone. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=251___mEwZA&feature=relmfu.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Smack dab in the middle eh.  He runs a guy from behind and then ducks under the smallest man in hockey.  I think he should have an "S" instead of "B" on his jersey.  What was I thinking.  Thanks for the evidence though.  He sure did get the one glove off fast when it was Gionta. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    Ok... getting frustrated... Shupe you've asked me a few questions and I've given you answers for each of them. Refute or don't.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    I hope he finds a team. I hate him when the bruins are playing against him but I think villians make it funner for fans. Matt Cooke is way worse than avery. Avery is a punk and agitater but not even in the same stratasphere as cooke is as a cheap shot artitst.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]Ok... getting frustrated... Shupe you've asked me a few questions and I've given you answers for each of them. Refute or don't.
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]
    I know how you feel.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avery Waived : I know how you feel.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]


    Haters gonna hate, Dez. They ignore it, because the facts completely disprove their comparisons, but oh well... Sometimes I think our fellow posters are all Michelle Bachman clones... Facts? We don't need no steenken facts!

    Seriously though... Shupe, NAS, et al give me the stats that show after one full season and a playoffs that Marchand is more similar to Avery than he is to those other players. Please. Maybe I'm wrong. I got into my first hockey fight in two years today so maybe I'm a little addled. Maybe I just imagined that 210 PIM difference.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avery Waived : Haters gonna hate, Dez. They ignore it, because the facts completely disprove their comparisons, but oh well... Sometimes I think our fellow posters are all Michelle Bachman clones... Facts? We don't need no steenken facts!
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]
    Oh yeah, don't cloud my head with facts. Perception suits me just fine thanks......
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    Well we all know that Kampfer is our team's best defenceman. So we all know, from that, that facts are irrelevant when you want to deal with the truth. why do I know it's the truth? Shupe told me so.

    And NAS, Avery was 368th in points his first full season - statistically who was Marchand closer to? Let's see, carry the 3, and x equals zed, oh that's right - Lemieux and Fleury, by over 200 slots.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    yeah, it isn't apples to oranges.

    Avery was a locker room cancer, in fact, he was run outta town in dallas because he always sat in the lockeroom by himself with his headphones on, talking to no one, making no friends and making every effort to ignore the rest of his teamates.

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puck_daddy/post/Sean-Avery-says-he-s-100-percent-responsible-f?urn=nhl-304370

    everyone hated him on Dallas. How you treat your own teamates really matters.

    By all accounts, Marchand is a popular guy in the locker room, he's also less of a diver http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qCImr98ZC0, and much more gifted offensively (better shot, better motor, sees the ice better). If team chemistry matters at all, then there is a huge, objective difference between Brad Marchand and Avery.

    Avery's "best" season: 15 goals, 24 assists, -5, 257 penalty minutes
    Avery's "best" post-season: 4 goals, 3 assists, 6 penalty minutes (5th on this team in scoring)

    Marchand's rookie season: 21 goals, 20 assists, 51 penatly minutes
    Marchand's only post-season: 11 goals, 8 assists, 40 PIM (3rd most points on the Bruins Stanley cup run)


    do they both "agitate?" yes, but thats about the only similarty they have. You can dislike each players style, but they're not the same. 


    "Avery did not look at his teammates in Dallas. Between periods he would often sit by himself in the hallway, headphones on, a citizen of Planet Sean. When Avery was in the dressing room, according to Stars veteran Mike Modano(notes), he was often on his phone, discussing a potential book deal or his movie project, a romantic comedy based on the life of the only NHL player to spend his summer as an intern at Vogue."

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]yeah, it isn't apples to oranges. Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]


    O, I figure you meant it IS apples to oranges?

    I agree with the body of your post. Avery to Marchand is a ridiculous and uneducated comparison. Seriously, have the people who say that actually watched these guys play?
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]Ok... getting frustrated... Shupe you've asked me a few questions and I've given you answers for each of them. Refute or don't.
    Posted by red75[/QUOTE]

    Wait a second please and thanks.  You threw Theo Fleury in the mix.  Are you serious.  Based on one year.  Realizing that he is a pretty old rookie for starters.  I believe you read what you want b/c in no part of my post did I say he wasnt skilled. 
    But I also asked you to name me who was suspended from that list and you you said Theo should have been.  Shoulda coulda.  Wasnt.  So based on his "punkishness" he is definitely on par with Avery.  Not skill.  Punkishness.  All I said was admit what he is.  You refuse to see that b/c he pops a few goals and wears a Bruins jersey.  He is a classless punk who has delivered dirty hits and doesnt respect the game.  How do you put a stat on that.  I live 40 minutes from where Brad grew up and have watched his minor hockey, junior and now pro.  He was a silverspoon baby growing up and he still is.  His ego is bigger than the jersey he wears.  He was booed in his own rink in Halifax on numerous occasions for lack of effort and stupid penalties. 
    But you crown him whatever you want.  For a one year sample of "Punk" he is doing an excellent job.  
    There is nothing about hating.  The reason you likely "hate" Avery is b/c he made a remark about a woman.  Big freaking deal.  Its done in every game in the NHL on every night.  Avery just doesnt have a muffler and said it to the media. 

    I don't like Marchand as a player b/c he doesnt represent the game well and has an ego bigger than his nose.  Someone will catch up with him.  And I will be smiling inside when it happens.  A few goals doesnt change that for me.  Apparently a few stats blinds you.  Open those eyes and call him what he is.   Its like comparing Sid to Gretzky.  Both great players but no one is Wayne.  Well no one is Avery but Marchand is in that class of dirty punk.  I don't recall Avery getting suspended for a head shot.  Could be wrong but I dont remember it.  Avery got suspended for saying something about a players girlfriend.  You dont think Marchand says that to guys?   What do you think he says to them when pesting.  did he not graduate pesting 101?  Pretty sure he had honors. 
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    Saying Avery and Marchand are the same because they are both agitators is like saying Henrik Sedin and Wayne Gretzky are the same because they are skinny playmaking centers.  Marchand is not a classy player, but Avery is a guy that goes way over the line.  Marchand is much closer to guys like Fleury or Lemieux than Avery.  He plays like Fleury and has an attitude like Lemieux. Avery is weird and, I think, a little unbalanced.  None of his teamates like him. I appreciate people not liking thew way Marchand plays, but Avery is an extreme case.  There are certain guys that I don't like but have an unusual level of confidence (or arrogance) that seems to pull along their teamates and results in winning.  Messier.  Claude Lemeaux.  When Claude was a rookie, he could see his team was losing faith in the first round and decided it was up to him to rally the guys and get a win. A rookie. Not unlike BM. I like having that attitude on the team, even if I wouldn't necessarily like them as a person. But Avery isn't an intense, skilled, arrogant competitor, he's just a low-talent (by NHL standards) guy who does controversial things to stay in the press and earn an inflated contract by a foolish co-GM.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]Saying Avery and Marchand are the same because they are both agitators is like saying Henrik Sedin and Wayne Gretzky are the same because they are skinny playmaking centers.  Marchand is not a classy player, but Avery is a guy that goes way over the line.  Marchand is much closer to guys like Fleury or Lemieux than Avery.  He plays like Fleury and has an attitude like Lemieux. Avery is weird and, I think, a little unbalanced.  None of his teamates like him. I appreciate people not liking thew way Marchand plays, but Avery is an extreme case.  There are certain guys that I don't like but have an unusual level of confidence (or arrogance) that seems to pull along their teamates and results in winning.  Messier.  Claude Lemeaux.  When Claude was a rookie, he could see his team was losing faith in the first round and decided it was up to him to rally the guys and get a win. A rookie. Not unlike BM. I like having that attitude on the team, even if I wouldn't necessarily like them as a person. But Avery isn't an intense, skilled, arrogant competitor, he's just a low-talent (by NHL standards) guy who does controversial things to stay in the press and earn an inflated contract by a foolish co-GM.
    Posted by OatesCam[/QUOTE]

    I can agree to this.  All except the part about Fleury.  Fleury was a borderlin superstar.  Definitely a star.  Marchand is not. 

    Avery is in a class of weird that no one gets.  Even Matt Cooke doesnt deserve to be grouped with him.

    My NHL comparison is Ray Ferraro.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Avery Waived : I can agree to this.  All except the part about Fleury.  Fleury was a borderlin superstar.  Definitely a star.  Marchand is not.  Avery is in a class of weird that no one gets.  Even Matt Cooke doesnt deserve to be grouped with him. My NHL comparison is Ray Ferraro.
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    For some reason, two Whalers come to mind as Marchand's comparibles.  Pat Verbeek and Dean Evason.

    Marchand has a long way to go to be Pat Verbeek in both scoring and fighting, but both of those guys were ugly, fiesty little bastards.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    easy everyone...it's opening night and banner night, can't we all just agree on one thing. the sample size is too small to make definitive statements about anything marchand has done so far. THIS SEASON will let us know what type of player he'll be for the rest of his career. does he continue to agitate, but keep it clean, and play team first. i think we saw signs of the mellowing latter-half last year. OR does he amp up his dumb play and truly detract from his overall skill set by taking bad penalties, and distracting his team? remember, he was reamed a new one after breaking his stick at the bench last year- for distracting the focus of the team. let's see how it goes...after 15-20 games we'll have a better grasp of the situation. he's either going to learn and grow, or act like the silver spoon spoiled brat shupe has informed us he has always been.
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    I think the Claude Lemieux comparison is MUCH WORSE than the Avery comparison because Lemieux was 100 times dirtier than Avery, and turtled 1000 times more than Avery.  Lemieux was not clean or tough:  He was a dirty, cheap-shot, turtling piece of garbage.  My top 5 all time hated list has Claude in it.  Avery doesnt even break the top 50 for me.  Is he a punk?  Yes.  Is there anything in the rule book that says you cant be?  No.  He doesnt cross the line (the line of being dirty and trying to injure guys) and he sticks up for himself when called out, most of the time.  He fights OFTEN, so he backs himself up.  I cant recall one play where I saw Avery go after someone in a malicious way where I thought he should be sat for a long period of time.  There are 20 other guys playing today who are leaps and bounds dirtier than Avery.  He's just the guy everyone loves to hate.  I find most of his antics quite humorous and love watching him play to see whats going to happen.  Same cant be said about Lapierre, Subban, Ovechkin, Burrows, Cooke, Steckel, etc.

    And you guys arguing with shupe:  ARE YOU NEW HERE!?!?!  Once shupe has it in his head, its fact.  No matter how many times you point it out, post video, etc., it doesnt change his opinion.  He's entitled to it, no matter how wrong he is. 
     
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    Re: Avery Waived

    In Response to Re: Avery Waived:
    [QUOTE]I think the Claude Lemieux comparison is MUCH WORSE than the Avery comparison because Lemieux was 100 times dirtier than Avery, and turtled 1000 times more than Avery.  Lemieux was not clean or tough:  He was a dirty, cheap-shot, turtling piece of garbage.  My top 5 all time hated list has Claude in it.  Avery doesnt even break the top 50 for me.  Is he a punk?  Yes.  Is there anything in the rule book that says you cant be?  No.  He doesnt cross the line (the line of being dirty and trying to injure guys) and he sticks up for himself when called out, most of the time.  He fights OFTEN, so he backs himself up.  I cant recall one play where I saw Avery go after someone in a malicious way where I thought he should be sat for a long period of time.  There are 20 other guys playing today who are leaps and bounds dirtier than Avery.  He's just the guy everyone loves to hate.  I find most of his antics quite humorous and love watching him play to see whats going to happen.  Same cant be said about Lapierre, Subban, Ovechkin, Burrows, Cooke, Steckel, etc. And you guys arguing with shupe:  ARE YOU NEW HERE!?!?!  Once shupe has it in his head, its fact.  No matter how many times you point it out, post video, etc., it doesnt change his opinion.  He's entitled to it, no matter how wrong he is. 
    Posted by bigvig[/QUOTE]

    Funny,  as wrong as I am, I believe you are agreeing with me here?  Chime in on Marchand dinglenuts.  Rat or Not?
    Steckel, for real?  Andrew Ference did similar to Halpren.  Next you will put Tim Brent on here running wild.   
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    "Avery did not look at his teammates in Dallas. Between periods he would often sit by himself in the hallway, headphones on, a citizen of Planet Sean. When Avery was in the dressing room, according to Stars veteran Mike Modano(notes), he was often on his phone, discussing a potential book deal or his movie project, a romantic comedy based on the life of the only NHL player to spend his summer as an intern at Vogue."
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Avery Waived

    big,

    and just for the record.  I just wanted people to realize that we have a super pest as well.  is that wrong?  people constantly say he backs his play.  As you mentioned with Avery he does back it up.  They say no one wants to fight Marchand.  I say when did he turn tough guy based on fighting record.  I get tail chasing. 
    Just admit he is a dirty little punk.  Callo did.  

    the fact you enjoy Avery has me wondering about you.  its almost as if Avery is playing another sport.  He is just a weird dude.  Sits on the end of the bench in his own world. 

     

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