Butler and DeCosta

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta : [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta : But Fletch, Chiarelli let him waltz right out of the backyard.  Don't confuse the hatchet job with facts!  That rookie Chiarelli let Butler slip right by! Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOE] You lose sight of the facts and the larger point.  The simple point is 15 teams made offers on him, reportedly Lou L, Shero, Bryan Murray (who has been the best at signing college FA's in the past 10 years, and is PC's "mentor"), and Gillis madethe biggest pushes for Butler and PC didn't even make a phone call.  So if some of the leagues best GM's make a big push for him, why don't we even make a phone call? That is the only question, those are the facts, and your boy chia missed on it.  Now he's asking how he missed on this guy.  You're the one who lets the facts cloud your opinion of all things Bruins.  You think you're the keeper of the gate of what's right and wrong in hockey decisions, if you disagree you try to bully with no facts. Fact:  Some of the best GM's in the game made the largest play they could to court him. Fact:  The GM with the best track record of signing college FA's got him, who also happens to be your boy PC's mentor. Fact:  Chia didn't even throw his hat in the ring. Fact:  He is asking around as to why he and his staff missed on this guy. Opinion:  you don't think PC missed on this one. It's not the end of the world that PC missed on this, but it is just another example of one he missed.  That's the simple point, you want to turn it into something else, something bigger, but that's not what I was saying.  Go pick on someone else.
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan[/QUOTE]

    fact:  the gm with the best track record of signing college fa's, has the worst team in the league.  maybe he's not a good gm. 
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from chapter10. Show chapter10's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    bigbadbruinsfan - just a note to your statement about Pitt, NJ, Van being the biggest suitors for Butler (and them having "far better forwards than we do" as you put it); you have to look at organizational depth and contracts in the future as well.

    Vancouver have 9 forward free agents next year
    Pittsburgh have 10 forward free agents next year
    New Jersey has space since the Kovalchuk signing

    All three of these teams would only have a college FA in the minors for a short time; whereas in Bost with only 2 forward contracts coming off the books next year (Recchi and Ryder) and a long list of prospects / call ups at forward in Providence already - Butler would be at the back of that line.

    By Chia saying there is room for a player like that does not make (in my interpretation anyway) any comment on his potential talent level, but more about his type of play, current contract situation and needs as a player; because as I said above, there is a list of players already ahead of him in this system.

    Just my two cents

    Oh and after watching a few games live (I live in Ottawa) with DaCosta and Butler...who knows how good they can be but at the moment, they are a long way off from being productive on an elite level team with depth. So no neither would make it right now as Bruins. 



     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    [QUOTE]bigbadbruinsfan - just a note to your statement about Pitt, NJ, Van being the biggest suitors for Butler (and them having "far better forwards than we do" as you put it); you have to look at organizational depth and contracts in the future as well. Vancouver have 9 forward free agents next year Pittsburgh have 10 forward free agents next year New Jersey has space since the Kovalchuk signing All three of these teams would only have a college FA in the minors for a short time; whereas in Bost with only 2 forward contracts coming off the books next year (Recchi and Ryder) and a long list of prospects / call ups at forward in Providence already - Butler would be at the back of that line. By Chia saying there is room for a player like that does not make (in my interpretation anyway) any comment on his potential talent level, but more about his type of play, current contract situation and needs as a player; because as I said above, there is a list of players already ahead of him in this system. Just my two cents Oh and after watching a few games live (I live in Ottawa) with DaCosta and Butler...who knows how good they can be but at the moment, they are a long way off from being productive on an elite level team with depth. So no neither would make it right now as Bruins. 
    Posted by chapter10[/QUOTE]


    Good points Chapter10.  One correction, I only said Van and Pitt have far better forwards than we do.  As for the free agents after this year, you could have added him to the list of all the teams you mention as he basically signed a one year deal for this season.  Whether Butler plays here or not is a matter of opinion, I for one would love to have him playing in place of Kelly or Ryder, and with Peverly.  He would also provide a nice boost to our brutal power play.

    I completely understand the depth thing etc, but my simple point is, why did Chia show no interest?  He even went so far to say, we have no interest in a player like that, why!?!?

    Once again, PC has asked others what he missed when scouting this guy, and wants to know why they missed out.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta :  You lose sight of the facts and the larger point.  The simple point is 15 teams made offers on him, reportedly Lou L, Shero, Bryan Murray (who has been the best at signing college FA's in the past 10 years, and is PC's "mentor"), and Gillis madethe biggest pushes for Butler and PC didn't even make a phone call.  So if some of the leagues best GM's make a big push for him, why don't we even make a phone call? That is the only question, those are the facts, and your boy chia missed on it.  Now he's asking how he missed on this guy.  You're the one who lets the facts cloud your opinion of all things Bruins.  You think you're the keeper of the gate of what's right and wrong in hockey decisions, if you disagree you try to bully with no facts. Fact:  Some of the best GM's in the game made the largest play they could to court him. Fact:  The GM with the best track record of signing college FA's got him, who also happens to be your boy PC's mentor. Fact:  Chia didn't even throw his hat in the ring. Fact:  He is asking around as to why he and his staff missed on this guy. Opinion:  you don't think PC missed on this one. It's not the end of the world that PC missed on this, but it is just another example of one he missed.  That's the simple point, you want to turn it into something else, something bigger, but that's not what I was saying.  Go pick on someone else.
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan[/QUOTE]

    Just a couple of questions on your magnificent points here.

    1.  What has Shero done that any other GM with incredibly high draft picks back to back to back wouldn't have?

    2.  I'm trying to find Murray's track record on signing college free agents.  Can you help me?  I found a lot of his moves on the wiki page (nice job giving Heatley away to SJ for next to nothing, and trading Jovo for Pavel.  The Luongo deal was a beauty, but I'm pressed to find another quality deal he made that was a standout deal).

    3.  If a team with plenty of cap room and plenty of ice time available is going to make an offer to a guy who wants money and ice time, why would the B's (who have no ice time available at all and are limited on the cap room) bother?

    4.  Who knows if he missed anything?  Take a few minutes and look up Daniel Goneau's career. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    [QUOTE]BookBoy, I think I may have bloked Dez?
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan[/QUOTE]

    That's the best idea since curves on sticks.  That guy is a total blowhard.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta : Just a couple of questions on your magnificent points here. 1.  What has Shero done that any other GM with incredibly high draft picks back to back to back wouldn't have? 2.  I'm trying to find Murray's track record on signing college free agents.  Can you help me?  I found a lot of his moves on the wiki page (nice job giving Heatley away to SJ for next to nothing, and trading Jovo for Pavel.  The Luongo deal was a beauty, but I'm pressed to find another quality deal he made that was a standout deal). 3.  If a team with plenty of cap room and plenty of ice time available is going to make an offer to a guy who wants money and ice time, why would the B's (who have no ice time available at all and are limited on the cap room) bother? 4.  Who knows if he missed anything?  Take a few minutes and look up Daniel Goneau's career. 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    1.  Whatever you think.

    2.  Murray signed Andy Macdonald and Dustin Penner as FA's out of school, who both have had very good NHL careers and were HUGE pieces to that cup team in Anaheim.  I don't remember saying anything about Murray as a GM overall, just that he's signed many undrafted college kids who have worked out well.  There you go turning it into something bigger, I don't remember saying to get the ballot ready for his hall of fame induction.

    3.  Once againnn, I'm just saying we didn't even try!  Better teams than ours tried, but PC didn't even attempt.  And PC has asked around about what others saw in BB that Chia and his staff missed.

    4.  Who cares, for every Goneau there's a story of an unheralded late pick or undrafted guy who made his way in the league.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    The only real disconnect here is you're making everything into a much bigger issue than what I am saying, on everything.  I say Murray has succeeded in the past with undrafted guys, you turn it into the analysis of every move he's made and me saying he's the best GM in the NHL.  I say half the teams, including some very good ones, tried signing Butler, you say only 1 signed him, no kidding!  So you're saying a guy can only play for one team at a time?  I'm talking general interest in signing him, which is what really counts, clearly only one team can sign him.  I said ultimately he picked a team who could provide ice time and opportunity, but wonder why PC didn't even give it a shot like so many other good teams and some of the NHLs better gms did?  I never said Butler or DaCosta were soon to be NHL all stars, just easily obtainable, very good, NHL prospects.

    Don't turn everything into something it isnt, no need to exagerate points and put words in my mouth on this stuff.


     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigbadbruinsfan. Show bigbadbruinsfan's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    Good talk guys, I have certainly exhausted my point by now.  I think I've gotten enough from the other side of the argument too, I'm ready to put this one to bed and look forward to the draft lotto tonight followed by playoff puck!

    We'll wait for the off season for more conversations about Chia, as you can tell, he's not my favorite.

    Happy Playoff season to all!
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    [QUOTE]Good talk guys, I have certainly exhausted my point by now.  I think I've gotten enough from the other side of the argument too, I'm ready to put this one to bed and look forward to the draft lotto tonight followed by playoff puck! We'll wait for the off season for more conversations about Chia, as you can tell, he's not my favorite. Happy Playoff season to all!
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan[/QUOTE]
    Same to you bigbad.I hope you can read this.BTW,the missing post you were referring to was very civil.I know that's hard to believe but it was.Cheers to a 16 win playoffs in Boston.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta :  2.  Murray signed Andy Macdonald and Dustin Penner as FA's out of school, who both have had very good NHL careers and were HUGE pieces to that cup team in Anaheim.  I don't remember saying anything about Murray as a GM overall, just that he's signed many undrafted college kids who have worked out well.  There you go turning it into something bigger, I don't remember saying to get the ballot ready for his hall of fame induction.
    Posted by bigbadbruinsfan[/QUOTE]

    [quote]Bryan Murray (who has been the best at signing college FA's in the past 10 years, and is PC's "mentor") [/quote]

    Ahaheim signed MacDonald on 12/3/2000.  Murray joined the team for the '01/02 season.  So, basically what you're telling us is that by signing Dustin Penner, he's the best in the past 10 years.


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LUCICmilan17. Show LUCICmilan17's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    I don't know whos in charge of the bruins international scouting but I wish we had the red wings scouts. Gustav Nyquist from sweeden who just left Umaine after his jr year is a special offensive talent. How do the wings always keep finding players like this and they never get high draft picks?
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from callodthedom19. Show callodthedom19's posts

    Re: Butler and DeCosta

    In Response to Re: Butler and DeCosta:
    [QUOTE]I don't know whos in charge of the bruins international scouting but I wish we had the red wings scouts. Gustav Nyquist from sweeden who just left Umaine after his jr year is a special offensive talent. How do the wings always keep finding players like this and they never get high draft picks?
    Posted by LUCICmilan17[/QUOTE]
    More importantly how did that idiot Whitehead convince him to come to Mane. Scouting Europe is still "new" to the NHL. I think very few teams succeed at it and the rest it's pick and pray.
     

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