Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]jmw, I do agree but my flip side of this is the rules.  When did these hits start jumping to such frequent events?  When they removed two line passing, goalie couldnt play the puck and no holding up for dmen.  That combined with how athletes train is a major factor.   the concussions this year are off the chart.  I mean every team in the league has had guys out.  Medical Science is also catching up with contact sports.  all these things make the game very boring for me.  I love watching hockey and I hate dabating this kinda stuff.  I don't think this problem gets better until they make the rules so harsh that no one gets hit.  And when that happens it won't be hockey.
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    Alleluia !

    Now Burke wants to bring in the "bear hug" that still won't cut down the speed these guys are generating. 
     
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation : I guess I wonder why the 'buckles don't have more "give" to them--as the plexiglass is designed to give a little when players smack into it.  That may or may not have helped Max avoid injury in this case, altho' it's clear that the padding did very little to save his neck from serious injury the way he hit it. My biggest complaint about the "penalties" handed out to players is that they are never commensurate with the damage done to the victim. I'm not talking about Chara here, b/c I agree w/the league that there was no intent to injure, but the rule I would instate is simple: If a hit resulting in serious injury to a player IS determined by league review to have been intentional, the player being penalized should be out exactly as long as they player victimized. That would mean Matt Cooke would not be playing in the NHL right now, and would stay out as long as or if marc Savard ever comes back. If the victimized player does not miss any time with injury, then the league--again, if determined the hit was intent to injure--should impose a suspension of as many games as they feel warrants the visciousness of the hit. My point is that HAD Chara's hit been intent to injure, a ten-game suspension means nothing and hardly compensates for the loss of the other team's player, who will surely be out for the playoffs and maybe even much of next year. . And I guarantee that at the very least we would see fewer goons in the league and certainly more caution for any of the more "angry" players who lash out at a perceived slight (i.e. Todd Bertuzzi) if they knew their suspension could last a year or more, or possibly mean the end of their NHL career if the player they hurt cannot return. 
    Posted by TryToBearIt[/QUOTE]

    the problem with suspending the agressor for as long as the victim is out is hunwick might never play another game in the nhl.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]jmw, I do agree but my flip side of this is the rules.  When did these hits start jumping to such frequent events?  When they removed two line passing, goalie couldnt play the puck and no holding up for dmen.  That combined with how athletes train is a major factor.   the concussions this year are off the chart.  I mean every team in the league has had guys out.  Medical Science is also catching up with contact sports.  all these things make the game very boring for me.  I love watching hockey and I hate dabating this kinda stuff.  I don't think this problem gets better until they make the rules so harsh that no one gets hit.  And when that happens it won't be hockey.
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    Good point. Increased speed plus impact equals carnage. The blowback from the post-clutch and grab era. Perhaps we can file a civil suit against Lemaire for all that has happened since his introduction of the trap in 95?.....
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    try,

    it would be impossible to suspend a player for as long as the injury.  why?  b/c savard has already come back.  he was concused on another hit that was clean.  And yes Matt Cooke's hit got the ball rolling.  But who is to say Savy didnt already have previous concussions. 

    I think harsh penalties would likely do it.  Starting with 10 games.  Go from 10 to 40-80.  Then maybe threat of a lifetime ban. Our league has screwed this royally.  Everytime a player like Cooke does something he should be suspended at full extent.  I mean look at what Chris Simon got suspended for.  The slash to the head was brutal  But stepping on Ruutu's foot.  Yeah the intent looked bad.  But Cooke's plays are all brutal and nothing. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation : Good point. Increased speed plus impact equals carnage. The blowback from the post-clutch and grab era. Perhaps we can file a civil suit against Lemaire for all that has happened since his introduction of the trap in 95?.....
    Posted by jmwalters[/QUOTE]

    That made me smile.  He is French Canadian though and one of their own. 
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from cieli01. Show cieli01's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    They should investigate this hit too, which in my opinion was worse than Charas.  The results werent but the hit was.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUet0nK68R4
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation : the problem with suspending the agressor for as long as the victim is out is hunwick might never play another game in the nhl.
    Posted by goodnewsbears[/QUOTE]

    No thats not what TTBI is saying at all. There was no penalty even issued on the Hunwick hit, nor was it reviewed.

    He said if after supplimental review a hit was deemed as Intent to injure or a blatant violation of a rule such as the head shot rule. They could be suspended as long as the player is out for.

    I go half and half with this, maybe a 2-3strike system. I mean should Paille still be suspended for his hit?(If that kid hasnt come back yet)
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Macacanadiannut. Show Macacanadiannut's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]This morning, Crown Prosecutors office in Quebec City has given the green light for Montreal Police to investigate the Zdeno Chara hit.  The Police's Major Crimes Unit will be in charge of the file.  If there are criminal charges, they could be laid in the coming weeks. 
    Posted by olsonstephanie[/QUOTE]

    What a waste of time and Money Only in Quebec.
    I can't believe the stupid hab fans commenting on 4 different blogs on TSN
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation : That made me smile.  He is French Canadian though and one of their own. 
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    But he has worked in the US for many years so he likely has dual citizenship if only just to save on taxes. So, should I call some greedy ambulance-chasing lawyer friends in Mass to get the ball rolling?....Lol!!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from TryToBearIt. Show TryToBearIt's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation : the problem with suspending the agressor for as long as the victim is out is hunwick might never play another game in the nhl.
    Posted by goodnewsbears[/QUOTE]

    No, because unless I'm mistaken, his hit was not determined intent to injure  and he was given no suspension--just like with Chara.

    My rule would only go into effect if the league determined there was clear intent to injure and was going to issue a suspension. Then the punishment should fit the crime by having the player who was guilty out as long as the victim. (Plus, Hunwick's hit on Savard sent Savard out only b/c of the cumulative effect of the previous hit(s)


     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from TryToBearIt. Show TryToBearIt's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation : No thats not what TTBI is saying at all. There was no penalty even issued on the Hunwick hit, nor was it reviewed. He said if after supplimental review a hit was deemed as Intent to injure or a blatant violation of a rule such as the head shot rule. They could be suspended as long as the player is out for. I go half and half with this, maybe a 2-3strike system. I mean should Paille still be suspended for his hit?(If that kid hasnt come back yet)
    Posted by I-Like-Hockey[/QUOTE]

    Exactly. And I would be open to the 2-3 strike system you describe...but overall it has to be more than a multi-game suspension of 10 or so games, b/c really, they mean nothing if the victimized player is out for any serious length of time.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from goodnewsbears. Show goodnewsbears's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation : No, because unless I'm mistaken, his hit was not determined intent to injure  and he was given no suspension--just like with Chara. My rule would only go into effect if the league determined there was clear intent to injure and was going to issue a suspension. Then the punishment should fit the crime by having the player who was guilty out as long as the victim. (Plus, Hunwick's hit on Savard sent Savard out only b/c of the cumulative effect of the previous hit(s)
    Posted by TryToBearIt[/QUOTE]

    ok, hunwick wouldn't have been suspended, but cooke would still be playing because savard came back last year.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation : But he has worked in the US for many years so he likely has dual citizenship if only just to save on taxes. So, should I call some greedy ambulance-chasing lawyer friends in Mass to get the ball rolling?....Lol!!
    Posted by jmwalters[/QUOTE]

    classic.  haha
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from TryToBearIt. Show TryToBearIt's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation : ok, hunwick wouldn't have been suspended, but cooke would still be playing because savard came back last year.
    Posted by goodnewsbears[/QUOTE]
     
    Yes, he would, but remember--he wasn;t suspended AT ALL when this occurred (altho' his hit DID result in rule changes on what constitutes a dirty hit--which makes no sense, but there's the NHL for you.)

    But had the rule been in place--and then my rule added on--Cooke would have at least missed the amount of time Savard initially did--and he did miss a # of games b4 coming back.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from cieli01. Show cieli01's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation : Are you crazy? It's clear Pac's intention was just to finish his check, help the Habs win, grab a burger, go back to the hotel and catch up on some 'South Park.' 
    Posted by Davidorr[/QUOTE]

    Oh right what wasI thinking.  Montreal players never play dirty cheap hockey. I'm so silly.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    try.. i've thrown that idea around on this board a couple times and its to difficult to judge what hit does damage. i like the idea of what your saying but it leaves too much gray area- take out a guys knee- sit as long as he does...when it's reinjured does that same guy have to sit out again? gets too wishy washy. i would solve the problem by having very stiff initial penalties(start at 5 games and go up from there). but my kicker is this, the team cannot replace that player on the roster for the games he's suspended. penalize the team also, and watch how these hits suddenly disappear. dirty players won't be signed anymore- too much of a liability!  
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from TryToBearIt. Show TryToBearIt's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]try.. i've thrown that idea around on this board a couple times and its to difficult to judge what hit does damage. i like the idea of what your saying but it leaves too much gray area- take out a guys knee- sit as long as he does...when it's reinjured does that same guy have to sit out again? gets too wishy washy. i would solve the problem by having very stiff initial penalties(start at 5 games and go up from there). but my kicker is this, the team cannot replace that player on the roster for the games he's suspended. penalize the team also, and watch how these hits suddenly disappear. dirty players won't be signed anymore- too much of a liability!  
    Posted by adkbeesfan[/QUOTE]

    I love it. That's an excellent idea (which means the NHL would never consider it). But it really makes sense. It's like in soccer when a player is red-carded and sent off, he can't be replaced on the field.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsCountry. Show BruinsCountry's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]jmw, I do agree but my flip side of this is the rules.  When did these hits start jumping to such frequent events?  When they removed two line passing, goalie couldnt play the puck and no holding up for dmen.  That combined with how athletes train is a major factor.   the concussions this year are off the chart.  I mean every team in the league has had guys out.  Medical Science is also catching up with contact sports.  all these things make the game very boring for me.  I love watching hockey and I hate dabating this kinda stuff.  I don't think this problem gets better until they make the rules so harsh that no one gets hit.  And when that happens it won't be hockey.
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    You're all over it, Shupe.  I've been saying for several months that the NHL may need to return to clutch-and-grab hockey to slow the game down in order to reduce the increase in concussions brought about by "the new NHL" in 05-06. 

    So what do we do now?  I agree it's boring, but changes need to be made, the  sooner the better. 

     - Clean hitting must remain part of the NHL game, so do we stay in the current regulation rinks with a return to some of the old rules to slow the game down?   - Move to Olympic-sized rinks with the old rules which would give players more room to make plays, while also reducing the amount of hitting? 
     - Change elbow and shoulder pads to sponge-based materials vs. hard plastic.
     - Don't know if such info. was actually kept in detail, but would welcome stats comparing the number of concussions today to 10 and 20 years ago, in both pro and college hockey.  I wonder if full-face cages/glass that college players wear would make a significant difference in the rate of concussions to NHL players.  And there's plenty of hitting in college hockey.    
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    Bruins,

    I made a list last week which was very similar to yours.  I don't think visors/cages will work.  You know whats funny.  I bet if players didnt wear helmets maybe more of this debate would be gone as well.  Its a flip side to the argument but think about it.
    The rules that were put in place was to sell the game to make money.  Problem is the NHL and doctors are making a killing.  They want a fast paced game.  They don't want it slowed down or they would put no touch icing in.  Its for the fans not the players. 

    1. Put the center ice back in.
    2. No Touch icing.
    3. Let the goalies play the puck.
    4. Allow for some dmen hold up.
    5. They reduced goalie equipment.  Do a review on the gear in the league and go back to smaller/padded equipment.
    6. go back to wood sticks(again-sexy for fans with the hard shots-more goals).
    7. maybe look at bigger rinks(wider).
    8. increase length of 1st time offense to 5 games. then times 2 each additional offense and harsher fines.  The players make great money.  Tell me a 5 gamer with 5% salary cut wouldnt make them smarten up.  The next offense they get 10 games and 10% salary cut.  The games missed mean nothing to them.  Its their paychecks you gotta hit.  And with this fine the club 250,000 for 1st offense and then times two for every event.  Maybe they wouldnt be so quick to sign the Matt Cooke's of the league
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    i think there are two different arguments going on here. one is to rid the league of bad hits, the other is to prevent concussions. ridding the league of bad hits could be remedied using my new rules stated above(not entirely, but drastically reduced). concussions will always be part of the game- add all the padding you want-they will still occur. hockey is a contact sport, it happens- all that can be done is eliminate the intentional injuries(bad hits)--- i truly believe the only reason this is such an issue right now is that the face of the league is sidelined because of concussion(sydney crosby). shoot, even mike milbury changed his tune...and oddly it happened in january/feb of this year(right after syd hit)- hmmmmm

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    adk,

    elbow pads and shoulder pads are solid plastic. Grapes tapped Ron on the head with an elbow pad.  Its not adding padding.  Its getting the rid of the solid plastic that wasnt there in older ages. 

    I like your rule you mentioned about not dressing a suspended players spot.  I believe NAS mentioned it a long time ago.  Problem is most teams run 3 lines.  missing a player for x amount of games will eventually take its toll.  But not immediately.  Most of the minor pro leagues only have 3 lines and 6 d.  its a cost move for them but if you wanna pay a thumper he takes a roster spot.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from adkbeesfan. Show adkbeesfan's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    fair enough rockett...if your comparing the habs to a deranged girlfriend who plays "mind games"- i'm with you on that one
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsCountry. Show BruinsCountry's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]i think there are two different arguments going on here. one is to rid the league of bad hits, the other is to prevent concussions. ridding the league of bad hits could be remedied using my new rules stated above(not entirely, but drastically reduced). concussions will always be part of the game- add all the padding you want-they will still occur. hockey is a contact sport, it happens- all that can be done is eliminate the intentional injuries(bad hits)--- i truly believe the only reason this is such an issue right now is that the face of the league is sidelined because of concussion(sydney crosby). shoot, even mike milbury changed his tune...and oddly it happened in january/feb of this year(right after syd hit)- hmmmmm
    Posted by adkbeesfan[/QUOTE]

    Adk,

    With all due repect, if the game were slowed down, there would be fewer bad hits.  There would also be fewer concussions. 

    We all know that hockey has always been a contact sport, but the number of concussions has obviously increased in the last 5 years, which means we need to look at what's changed in the game OTHER THAN contact.  And that would be:

    Speed.  I submit that the rules brought on by "the new NHL" of 05-06 have sped up the game and that...in concert with today's larger, heavier players and their hard plastic pads as cited by Shuperman above...is what's behind the dramatic increase in conclussions.

    Solution:  Slow the game down (see Shuperman's list above or mine). 

    We can't change the size and weight of the players, but the rules can be changed to slow 'em down a bit.  Their equipment can be softened to be more like what it used to be.  Etc., etc.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from ccoul. Show ccoul's posts

    Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    Using  Montreal Cops.. Great Marketting stint from Habs/Molson.
    They will sell more tickets and beer that way.
    Get over it Montreal, if not go back when Cheap Shot Chelios took out a Bruins with his  elbow 15 years ago, where were the Montreal finest then? Maybe  they  also look at the way Stan Jonathan unfairly nailed down Bouchard  ;-)

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation

    In Response to Re: Chara: Green Light given for Police Investigation:
    [QUOTE]Bruins, I made a list last week which was very similar to yours.  I don't think visors/cages will work.  You know whats funny.  I bet if players didnt wear helmets maybe more of this debate would be gone as well.  Its a flip side to the argument but think about it. The rules that were put in place was to sell the game to make money.  Problem is the NHL and doctors are making a killing.  They want a fast paced game.  They don't want it slowed down or they would put no touch icing in.  Its for the fans not the players.  1. Put the center ice back in. 2. No Touch icing. 3. Let the goalies play the puck. 4. Allow for some dmen hold up. 5. They reduced goalie equipment.  Do a review on the gear in the league and go back to smaller/padded equipment. 6. go back to wood sticks(again-sexy for fans with the hard shots-more goals). 7. maybe look at bigger rinks(wider). 8. increase length of 1st time offense to 5 games. then times 2 each additional offense and harsher fines.  The players make great money.  Tell me a 5 gamer with 5% salary cut wouldnt make them smarten up.  The next offense they get 10 games and 10% salary cut.  The games missed mean nothing to them.  Its their paychecks you gotta hit.  And with this fine the club 250,000 for 1st offense and then times two for every event.  Maybe they wouldnt be so quick to sign the Matt Cooke's of the league
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    you have done an excellent job stating your case in this thread.

    When all the obstruction rules came in and existing one's enforced I initially thought it was a good idea. Afterall, who the hell wants to shell out a couple of hundred bucks to see the likes of Hall Gill hugging superstars all night like plastic wrap.

    I now cringe every time I see a forward barreling down the ice from center to hit a defencman playing the puck behind the net.....
     

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