Farmville

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Farmville

    I haven't paid much attention to the A of late, so I did a little catching up (seems appropriate now that we know the team in Boston is the team - unless someone from the farm is called upon).

    Few things to chew on:

    Max Sauve has 17 goals in only 42 games, making him the leading goalscorer on the team (Arniel has 16 in 60 games).  He is one off the team lead for PPG, and he's +4 on a team that is almost entirely in the red.

    Zach Hamill is still Bruin property; he wasn't dealt straight up for Bogosian.  Since his brief call up, he's up to a whopping 5 goals on the year, but he's second on the team in scoring with 34 pts, he's the team leader in plus/minus (+8) now that both Penner and Kampfer are elsewhere, he's got his scoring rate up to .67 ppg.  He didn't embarrass himself in his call-up, and it looks like he's making progress toward being a consistent point-getter in the A.  I think they re-sign him, I really do. 

    Valabik is staring games alongside Bartkowski.  He's even through 5 games with one assist.

    Caron's numbers are still a bit disappointing, though maybe he hasn't quite erased the statistical impact of his very slow start: 8-12-20 in 34 games.  4PPG.

    In six games with the Marlies, Colborne has 5 points, 4 goals.  He's a -1. 

    You might not expect much of Nathan McIver and Andrew Bodnarchuk (both -16), but it's odd to see Bartkowski sport a -15.

    Cohen's gaining some traction, with 7pts in 27 games and a +1.

    The six D?  Bartkowski, Cohen, Valabik, Alexandrov, Bodnarchuk, McIver.  Looks like that order.  I'm not sure anyone in that group looks to crack the NHL any time soon, but then the current group, outside of Kaberle, is signed for next year anyway.  The real moment for any of these six to crack the Bruin lineup might be 2012-13 when Boychuk is a UFA, McQuaid is RFA, and Ference is in the final year of his deal.

    Goaltending numbers are scary.  Schaefer was a failure as a veteran AHL signing - sub. .900 save%, 3.11 GAA.  Well under .500 winning %.  Hutchinson has a better record, a slightly better (.006%) save%, but a slightly worse GAA.  Dalton was a train wreck: .894%, 3.20 GAA, 7-9 record.  Just about every game sheet I've looked at, the team is behind two goals before the first beer is down.  We'll have a sense of whether goalie talent or team is more at fault once Khudobin puts in a half-dozen starts. (I'm guessing the team releases Schaefer or demotes Hutchinson shortly).

    Overall: 57 pts, 7 pts back of the 8th playoff spot in the East.  Only 3-6-0-1 in their last 10.  - 52 goal differential.  Hallmarks of a weak team.  Every game sheet I've looked at, they get whallopped in shots.  Just crushed.  From what I know about the players on that team, from Whitfield and Reich to Hamill and Caron, and from what I see in the game sheets and the few times I've seen games, they are a team that struggles to manage the puck.  There's a lot of junk on this roster, and you have to wonder if playing here is taking more of a toll than it is teaching the real prospects to play pro hockey.

    Anyone who sees more of the P-Bruins live - I'd love to get your take.  These are the observations of someone who is basing an opinion on very little evidence.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Stuke50. Show Stuke50's posts

    Re: Farmville

    Good post Bookboy...thanks for the digging and reading....always good to keep an eye on the farm...see what's growing...looks like PC does pay attention himself as he just went to the farm and did some weeding. Hopefully he knows what are weeds and what are plants....once again..thanks...
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from perrysound. Show perrysound's posts

    Re: Farmville

    Good posting. 

    I am a NHL snob. To me, it just seems that the Farm, for any team, really doesn't do much in Hockey. Yes, we can all site one or two good examples of guys that toiled in the A and moved up, but generally they are 3 or 4th liners. At most they are guys from Junior that can't quiet make it on the big team, and will go there for a few months to a year (Ryan Getzlaf, Corey Perry, Subban, Price come to mind), then either make the big team, or will spend the rest of their career down there. That is why I hope Caron makes it back soon, because if he doesn't real soon, he's either there for life, or traded to Toronto. Laughing

    Does anyone really think Hamil will be anything more than a 3rd or 4th liner? We hope, but.....most likely a AHL'er for life.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Farmville

    Excellent post. I think one of the reasons PC traded for that russian goalie from Minni was to shore up the goaltending issues in Providence. It certainly could not hurt....
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Farmville

    You know, my first thought was that it depends on the state of the franchise, ps.  The Bruins haven't had many promotions from the farm in a while for a couple of reasons: the organization had drafted poorly and gutted itself trying to build around JT, and the NHL team got so thin post-lockout and Thornton trade that many of the most intriguing prospects like Lucic or Kessel or even Wheeler could step right in ahead of the Chistov's and Tenkrat's of the world.  Even so, remember that the current 1st line C played nearly two years in Providence, and McQuaid and Boychuk did long stints in the minors.  And Rask, of course.

    But you know, I couldn't find many examples of guys who do real time in the A and then move up to become top six forwards, top four D, or starting goalies.  Those players seem to follow one of two paths now: they're kept up from the word go, like Seguin, or they play out their amateur eligibility in junior or the NCAA until they get to 20 at which time they usually split their first season between the A and the NHL.  They might split two seasons that way, but they'll still play fewer than 80 AHL games. 

    There are some exceptions - guys like Ryder who have been top six forwards for parts of their careers who were three year minor leaguers - even ECHLers.  So maybe the farm is becoming a bit of a dumping ground.  I wonder if that's a measure of the talent that ends up there or if it's the way GMs and organizations are managing the talent they have.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Farmville

    A lot of players spend a season or two getting ready.  Krejci, Marchand, Kampfer, Boychuck, Rask, Thomas and others.  Bergeron had a year in the A with the lockout.  It can produce good players and helps those that didn't mature young.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from sclifton-4-freespeech. Show sclifton-4-freespeech's posts

    Re: Farmville

    In Response to Farmville:
    [QUOTE]I haven't paid much attention to the A of late, so I did a little catching up (seems appropriate now that we know the team in Boston is the team - unless someone from the farm is called upon). Few things to chew on: Max Sauve has 17 goals in only 42 games, making him the leading goalscorer on the team (Arniel has 16 in 60 games).  He is one off the team lead for PPG, and he's +4 on a team that is almost entirely in the red. Zach Hamill is still Bruin property; he wasn't dealt straight up for Bogosian.  Since his brief call up, he's up to a whopping 5 goals on the year, but he's second on the team in scoring with 34 pts, he's the team leader in plus/minus (+8) now that both Penner and Kampfer are elsewhere, he's got his scoring rate up to .67 ppg.  He didn't embarrass himself in his call-up, and it looks like he's making progress toward being a consistent point-getter in the A.  I think they re-sign him, I really do.  Valabik is staring games alongside Bartkowski.  He's even through 5 games with one assist. Caron's numbers are still a bit disappointing, though maybe he hasn't quite erased the statistical impact of his very slow start: 8-12-20 in 34 games.  4PPG. In six games with the Marlies, Colborne has 5 points, 4 goals.  He's a -1.  You might not expect much of Nathan McIver and Andrew Bodnarchuk (both -16), but it's odd to see Bartkowski sport a -15. Cohen's gaining some traction, with 7pts in 27 games and a +1. The six D?  Bartkowski, Cohen, Valabik, Alexandrov, Bodnarchuk, McIver.  Looks like that order.  I'm not sure anyone in that group looks to crack the NHL any time soon, but then the current group, outside of Kaberle, is signed for next year anyway.  The real moment for any of these six to crack the Bruin lineup might be 2012-13 when Boychuk is a UFA, McQuaid is RFA, and Ference is in the final year of his deal. Goaltending numbers are scary.  Schaefer was a failure as a veteran AHL signing - sub. .900 save%, 3.11 GAA.  Well under .500 winning %.  Hutchinson has a better record, a slightly better (.006%) save%, but a slightly worse GAA.  Dalton was a train wreck: .894%, 3.20 GAA, 7-9 record.  Just about every game sheet I've looked at, the team is behind two goals before the first beer is down.  We'll have a sense of whether goalie talent or team is more at fault once Khudobin puts in a half-dozen starts. (I'm guessing the team releases Schaefer or demotes Hutchinson shortly). Overall: 57 pts, 7 pts back of the 8th playoff spot in the East.  Only 3-6-0-1 in their last 10.  - 52 goal differential.  Hallmarks of a weak team.  Every game sheet I've looked at, they get whallopped in shots.  Just crushed.  From what I know about the players on that team, from Whitfield and Reich to Hamill and Caron, and from what I see in the game sheets and the few times I've seen games, they are a team that struggles to manage the puck.  There's a lot of junk on this roster, and you have to wonder if playing here is taking more of a toll than it is teaching the real prospects to play pro hockey. Anyone who sees more of the P-Bruins live - I'd love to get your take.  These are the observations of someone who is basing an opinion on very little evidence.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    thanks for the update saves me from having to search out stats and recaps.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Farmville

    I think that Krejci is a perfect example of the type of player that is really aided by playing in the A.   Young skilled European players or late developing N. American players with way more talent than muscle.  Wasn't Jason Spezza the same way?

    I agree that some people become career AHLers once they play there, but it seems like there are a lot of good prospects that are talented enough to get drafted, but have never had to cycle, defend, or grind in the corners with big, pro, North American players.


    College players are not used to more than 40-45 games a season either, so some like Mark Stuart or Brian Gionta really seemed to need a year or two of the A, before they were ready.

    Then you have other guys like Hugh Jessiman and Matt Lashoff, who's stock has never been higher than day 1 in the A.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from palealeman. Show palealeman's posts

    Re: Farmville

    thanks for updates, i live between portland and manchester i havent been to any games yet. i was hoping to see mcgratten fight, guess i wont now!
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kebbe. Show kebbe's posts

    Re: Farmville

       The goalie the B's picked up(Khudobin)has played well everywhere he's been and has simply had a couple of goalies ahead of him and has yet to really get a true opportunity to show what he can or cannot do in the NHL.He is still young and remember that new-minders almost always require time to mature and often do not mature until their mid to late 20's,some even later(e.g.-Tim THomas).I am anxious to see wht he does in Providence,who knows,he might turn out to be a really good pick-up and if not,little is lost.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Farmville

    In Response to Re: Farmville:
    [QUOTE]You know, my first thought was that it depends on the state of the franchise, ps.  The Bruins haven't had many promotions from the farm in a while for a couple of reasons: the organization had drafted poorly and gutted itself trying to build around JT, and the NHL team got so thin post-lockout and Thornton trade that many of the most intriguing prospects like Lucic or Kessel or even Wheeler could step right in ahead of the Chistov's and Tenkrat's of the world.  Even so, remember that the current 1st line C played nearly two years in Providence, and McQuaid and Boychuk did long stints in the minors.  And Rask, of course. But you know, I couldn't find many examples of guys who do real time in the A and then move up to become top six forwards, top four D, or starting goalies.  Those players seem to follow one of two paths now: they're kept up from the word go, like Seguin, or they play out their amateur eligibility in junior or the NCAA until they get to 20 at which time they usually split their first season between the A and the NHL.  They might split two seasons that way, but they'll still play fewer than 80 AHL games.  There are some exceptions - guys like Ryder who have been top six forwards for parts of their careers who were three year minor leaguers - even ECHLers.  So maybe the farm is becoming a bit of a dumping ground.  I wonder if that's a measure of the talent that ends up there or if it's the way GMs and organizations are managing the talent they have.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    Did you really just mention Chistov and Tenkrat?....ugh!! I have spent the last few years trying to forget they even existed....lol!!
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Farmville

    See, here's the thing Fletch.  When I went looking, I was thinking of guys who did a solid two year hitch in the AHL - guys who didn't start to apprentice in the NHL until 23, basically, or in the case of 4-year college players, 24 or 25.  Marchand was in my head as an example of a good AHL graduation story, but like Krejci he really did one full year, one split year, and now there's no looking back.  Spezza did a year and a half, but the full year was the lockout.  Gionta played a total of 52 games in the AHL, 15 in the lockout year.  Logan Couture played out his Jr. eligibility and started splitting time between the NHL and the AHL in his first pro year - so even a guy who feels like he's taking forever to get the NHL (drafted the pick after Hamill) isn't spinning his wheels in the A. 

    I might have to look into this a little deeper because I'm starting to wonder if the whole "farm" aspect of the farm team is now a complete crock, and what we're really talking about here is an entire league that's almost as useless in terms of real "crops" as Farmville.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Farmville

    In Response to Re: Farmville:
    [QUOTE]See, here's the thing Fletch.  When I went looking, I was thinking of guys who did a solid two year hitch in the AHL - guys who didn't start to apprentice in the NHL until 23, basically, or in the case of 4-year college players, 24 or 25.  Marchand was in my head as an example of a good AHL graduation story, but like Krejci he really did one full year, one split year, and now there's no looking back.  Spezza did a year and a half, but the full year was the lockout.  Gionta played a total of 52 games in the AHL, 15 in the lockout year.  Logan Couture played out his Jr. eligibility and started splitting time between the NHL and the AHL in his first pro year - so even a guy who feels like he's taking forever to get the NHL (drafted the pick after Hamill) isn't spinning his wheels in the A.  I might have to look into this a little deeper because I'm starting to wonder if the whole "farm" aspect of the farm team is now a complete crock, and what we're really talking about here is an entire league that's almost as useless in terms of real "crops" as Farmville.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]
    Although shuttled up and down,Marty St.Louis took until his 3rd pro season to finally jump from the AHL for good.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Farmville

    Even then, dez, you're talking about a guy whose story is told and re-told because it took such perseverence - but he spent a not-insignificant amount of time in the NHL in his second year (13 games) and was basically there the next year.  I just finished looking at Burrows's story, and again, even the longshot undrafted underwhelming Burrows was in the NHL in under four years.  And he's considered to be one of those Disney movie stories.

    And these are exceptions.  I'm still really skeptical that there's much cultivation going in the AHL.  Much more like a blind farmer with vertigo digging randomly across his cabbage patch hoping to find a diamond.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Farmville

    Book, I was too lazy to read tonight.  Nonetheless a must read tomorrow.  Go Bs!
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Farmville

    I think I I agree with you Bookboy in terms of a very slim fraction of guys actually developing in the AHL, as opposed to developing elsewhere.  But I still think it is the perfect place for certain players.  Like Krejci.  What else do you do with him?  You want him in N. America, but he's already bypassed college or junior.  He's too fragile for the NHL (remember when Adam Mair knocked him out in his first game?).  It just seemed like a year in the AHL was perfect for him.  Or guys like Alexandrov.  It seems like the A is critical for the guys who need that type of development, even if the majority of the people there are not actually developing.  The few that are have no other place to do it.

    Doesn't Buffalo have a pretty long track record of bringing their AHL guys up with success?  (I believe that Ryan Miller, Thomas Vanek, Derek Roy, Jason Pominville, Paul Gaustad, Ales Kotalik, and Daniel Paille were all in Rochester together about 5-6 years ago).  I wonder if different organizations and coaches are just much better at it than others?
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Farmville

    Krejci played junior in Gatineau on a sick line with Claude Giroux.  But yes, there are players who you'd want to play at a reasonably high level, against adults, while they matured for another year.  But beyond a year?  It doesn't seem like these players are developed there, just protected for a year so they can be integrated slowly.

    You're right about half of those Sabres - Gaustad, Pominville and Miller all played about three years in the minors.  Vanek was there for the lockout.  Paille, Roy, and Kotalik for a season and a bit.

    There must be other examples, maybe of teams that fell apart quickly and couldn't afford the FA route or simply that chose to go with young guys.  Or teams that have acquired other teams' long-developing players a la Moulson with the Isles.  But that gets squeezed pretty quickly when you think about it.  Really bad teams like the Isles don't have any downward pressure on these kids - they end up in Long Island right away (Tavares, Bailey, DiPietro) or play out their amateur eligibility and then phase into the NHL (Okposo, Comeau).  Teams like the Flyers - bad enough to draft van Riemsdyk not so long ago - put roadblocks in front of longer horizon players with trades and signings to supplement first class talent like Richards, Carter, and Giroux who spend a very short time in the minors if at all (between them, fewer than 40 AHL games).

    So...it looks like a whole apparatus designed as a short term holding tank for real hockey talent.  Guys who actually stay long enough to develop into top 12 roster players?  Really really rare.  Really rare.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: Farmville

    BB,
    I think most of your NHL contributors are not toiling away in the AHL.. Most guys who are going to play in the NHL make the jump with in a season and a half I think seems to be the trent.. Providence right now, only host a few NHL talents (perhaps).. Colborne as you noted was shipped off, Hutichinson is projected as a career back up at best, and was a late round pick the bruins took a shot on.. Most of the bruins nhl talent from the draft is still in juniors, or has made the jump (Lucic, Kampfer, marchand, seguin etc) some with no AHL seasoning at all..  I had a conversation recently about the "AHL" all star game with my point being most of the guys in that are cusps NHL guys, and making the AHL allstar game at 29 isnt really a good thing.. Guy who are not giving you quite enough to keep on an NHL roster, but can contribute if needed, similar to Darren Haydar having the honor of owning the AHL's all time points streak at (42??) games, and being a point per game player in the AHL, but not having enough to make the jump even though he has had some success in the time he has been given, 8 points in 23 games..

    So its less of a development league perhaps, more of an adjustment stop, as well a storage locker for the NHL.. 

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Farmville

    WOW some really good commentary on hockey, and zero negative jabs. BB thank you, so here's my perspective. The truly "development" occurs in Minor or college, where the coaching skills, Parker, Berenson, York, plus the younger Junior coaches who have moved into NHL jobs have the most important influence. Some of their " outstanding Juniors make it right away, like Seguin, others all seem to spend a brief time in the AHL as their ability to cope with stronger NHL players is evaluated as was noted about Kreji. What this tells us is that the consolidated AHL is not a "skills development" league, but a physical and structural exposure league. We might also note that there are not too many "innovative" coaches in the AHL because they are mostly following the "system" that a parent club is committed to follow. Claude's eventual replacement will not come from Providence, since the only "intelligent" coach went to Long Island.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Farmville

    In Response to Re: Farmville:
    [QUOTE]Krejci played junior in Gatineau on a sick line with Claude Giroux.  But yes, there are players who you'd want to play at a reasonably high level, against adults, while they matured for another year.  But beyond a year?  It doesn't seem like these players are developed there, just protected for a year so they can be integrated slowly. You're right about half of those Sabres - Gaustad, Pominville and Miller all played about three years in the minors.  Vanek was there for the lockout.  Paille, Roy, and Kotalik for a season and a bit. There must be other examples, maybe of teams that fell apart quickly and couldn't afford the FA route or simply that chose to go with young guys.  Or teams that have acquired other teams' long-developing players a la Moulson with the Isles.  But that gets squeezed pretty quickly when you think about it.  Really bad teams like the Isles don't have any downward pressure on these kids - they end up in Long Island right away (Tavares, Bailey, DiPietro) or play out their amateur eligibility and then phase into the NHL (Okposo, Comeau).  Teams like the Flyers - bad enough to draft van Riemsdyk not so long ago - put roadblocks in front of longer horizon players with trades and signings to supplement first class talent like Richards, Carter, and Giroux who spend a very short time in the minors if at all (between them, fewer than 40 AHL games). So...it looks like a whole apparatus designed as a short term holding tank for real hockey talent.  Guys who actually stay long enough to develop into top 12 roster players?  Really really rare.  Really rare.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    Apologies on Krejci -- I actually was not aware he played in the Q, and thought he came straight across the pond to Providence.  Thanks for correcting.

    I think I agree with the above summary pretty well -- The AHL is a good tool to develop guys who are...kind of already developed and need a year of seasoning.  It is not such a tool for truly developing talent on a 2 or 3 year plan.  Maybe that's part of the reason I hope Sauve and Caron prove to be NHL capable next season.  It does seem like, in most cases, development hits a plateau at about 100 games in the A.  There will always be exceptions of course.

    I think of a bunch of really promising local (Boston) kids that went into the league with big exopectations, landed in the A for several years, and have never developed any further despite being standouts in college or junior -- Jim Fahey, Mike Ryan, Josh Hennessy, to name a few...
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Farmville

    Book, a ncie read.  Agree with the above commentary,  this is hockey talk at its best. Detailing is not my speciality, the larger concepts are usually my focus.  The individual players that now constitute the Providence Bruins are young.  The Bs system like Buffalo or Detriot, focuses on team play as a preparation to advancement into the NHL. Providence is young team learning to play the game as a team does not always translate into victories or individual accomplishments.  This year is an example. Nonetheless, certain players are skilled enough to be considered potential NHLers next year or thereafter. IMO Caron and Alexandrov because of their make up and skill have the best chances to make the team in the next couple years.  The others to me are fill ins and cap savers, maybe a Marchand will come to be in Sauve.  Bartkowski is one of those players as well.  He is a player whose skills set well in building team play now enjoyed by the Bs.  Overall thanks for the input, catalyst to thinking differently on the developemnt of the Bs in years ahead.  
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Farmville

    One added thought in reference to Defensemen. The Ahl probably gives defensemen the added year or two that is necessary to understand the NHL game, positioning, reaction quickness,  plus size and strength. We are seeing faster and smarter defensemen succeed in isolated cases like Kamfer, even though they still must learn the NHL under a good coach like Ramsey.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Farmville

    Glad people are finding this thread worthwhile!

    It's also another perspective on those calls to send Seguin to A, isn't it?  Not sure it changes anyone's mind one way or the other - anyone?

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Rufus604. Show Rufus604's posts

    Re: Farmville

    Thanks for the update.  I admittedly dont follow Providence a closely as I should but like seeing prospect updates like this.  I live in Abbotsford, BC and saw them play the heat on the 25th and for a team near the bottom of their division, it was sure nice seing a 4-0 shutout.
     
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    Re: Farmville

    In Response to Re: Farmville:
    [QUOTE]Glad people are finding this thread worthwhile! It's also another perspective on those calls to send Seguin to A, isn't it?  Not sure it changes anyone's mind one way or the other - anyone?
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    I think, seguin to the A, probably doesn't "help" his development, as much as it allows you to bring him in when he is trulely ready..

    Lets say the time table to adjust for him is 18 months.. He'd see more ice in the A, he'd certainly put up better numbers, but when his game is adjusted, and he is stronger and where he should be professionally, its probably about the same time table..
     

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