Fraser ex ref opinion ?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from boborielly224. Show boborielly224's posts

    Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    I will give some points from Frasers blog on tsn:

    Players often seek out retribution after big hits, causing an elevation in the temperature of players to a boiling point. Refs need to take whatever reaction to control the game.

    Chara's cross checking started the flame.

    Chris Kelly was allow to shove Chris Connor down no call.

    Crosby's trip on marchand in plain view of a trailing ref no call.

    Than the knee to the marchands head was only a 2 minute call should of been a 10 min misconduct.

    Then the Orpik and Thornton incident should of been a game misconduct would of douse the flame.

    Personally after reading the blog what i comprehend  from this is the refs lost control of the game which was mainly part of the blame.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    Blaming the refs is so weak.

    These aren't caged animals.  They are grown men.  They are all accountable for their own actions. 

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from wallydouglas. Show wallydouglas's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?


    I already mentioned the refs lost control of the game in that 1st 5 minutes when orpik should of at least got an interference call.

    Now Nas, control of a game goes beyond making or not making a call, when either team or both see that calls are gonna be missed, it gives them a sense of what they are going to be able to get away with and thats exactly what happned so YES the refs could of done a better job in this game, I like when a ref sets the tone of the game from the start rather than closer to the finish.

    And even refs are accountable for there actions or in this case there non action.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to wallydouglas' comment:
    [QUOTE]


    I already mentioned the refs lost control of the game in that 1st 5 minutes when orpik should of at least got an interference call.

    Now Nas, control of a game goes beyond making or not making a call, when either team or both see that calls are gonna be missed, it gives them a sense of what they are going to be able to get away with and thats exactly what happned so YES the refs could of done a better job in this game, I like when a ref sets the tone of the game from the start rather than closer to the finish.

    And even refs are accountable for there actions or in this case there non action.

    [/QUOTE]


    I disagree.  Neal knows he's not supposed to knee a player in the head.  Thornton knows he's not supposed to do what he did.  They did it anyway.

    This is like a guy with a 100 MPH speeding ticket blaming the cops for not having enough speed traps.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from wallydouglas. Show wallydouglas's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?


    No comparison but your right in the fact that neal knows better, the fact is he thought he could get away with it most likely because he felt the calls werent coming in this game, ala as in the orpik hit. Whay he did was a cowardly act unlike what thornton did was a stupid act. I have to wonder if the neal hit is what really triggered ST, Eriksson getting smoked is one thing then add marchand getting kneed.

    Every game is different when it comes to officating and those that dont set the tone early are those that get out of hand. You and I as a fan watching can tell how a game goes just by what the refs allow and dont, excpet the last 5 minutes or OT lol.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    It is totally bogus if someone says it's not Neal's fault or Thornton's fault - the refs should have controlled the game.  That might be an argument for why there was a line brawl or something, but kneeing a guy in the head, and throwing punches at a guy who is lying in a very vulnerable position are not "policing the game" - they're stupid things that shouldn't have happened and for which Neal and Thornton deserve to be called to account by the league.

    But.  That doesn't mean the refs didn't make a series of mistakes or miss opportunities to keep the game under control.  It's not "blame the refs instead of Neal or Thornton" it's "render unto the refs what belongs to the refs...."

    To use the analogy, it's like cops turning a blind eye to speeders on a stretch of road, so the pace of traffic goes up and up until they catch one guy going 120 in a 60 zone and he loses his licence, and another guy goes off the road and crashes.  Both drivers are responsible for being stupid even though the rules weren't being enforced, but you'd expect that the police would be asked what the point of the speed limit is if the penalties for exceeding it are never used.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    Its not like they were in the third period and there was dozens of missed/non-calls all game. There were a couple at that point maybe, but in the end only Neal and Thornton should answer for what they did. Putting blame anywhere is a waste.

     

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from wallydouglas. Show wallydouglas's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to DaveyN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Its not like they were in the third period and there was dozens of missed/non-calls all game. There were a couple at that point maybe, but in the end only Neal and Thornton should answer for what they did. Putting blame anywhere is a waste.

     

    [/QUOTE]


    Ok so then i get on the ice, i play my game and someone smokes me or blindsides me or for that matter intentually tries to injure me and the ref lets it go, so then i just say fine, ill go after so and so and do the same, these stupid refs are blind. Hows that work for ya ?

    If the ref makes the dam call to begin with then it changes my attitude.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to wallydouglas' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to DaveyN's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Its not like they were in the third period and there was dozens of missed/non-calls all game. There were a couple at that point maybe, but in the end only Neal and Thornton should answer for what they did. Putting blame anywhere is a waste.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Ok so then i get on the ice, i play my game and someone smokes me or blindsides me or for that matter intentually tries to injure me and the ref lets it go, so then i just say fine, ill go after so and so and do the same, these stupid refs are blind. Hows that work for ya ?

    If the ref makes the dam call to begin with then it changes my attitude.

    [/QUOTE]

    No disrespect here but I dont know what point youre trying to get across.

     

    Im not saying the refs couldnt have done a better job, but in the end you cant blame the refs for James Neal kneeing someone in the head or for Shawn Thornton sleew-footing someone and punching them in the head while they are down. Thats common sense and clearly way outside the boundaries of rules. Refs do miss calls sometimes, the hit on Ericksson could have been and interference penalty at best. Does the ref making that call prevent James Neal from doing what he did or Sawn Thornton doing what he did? I honestly dont think so.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to wallydouglas' comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Ok so then i get on the ice, i play my game and someone smokes me or blindsides me or for that matter intentually tries to injure me and the ref lets it go, so then i just say fine, ill go after so and so and do the same, these stupid refs are blind. Hows that work for ya ?

    If the ref makes the dam call to begin with then it changes my attitude.

    [/QUOTE]

    Wally, if you say "Fine, if they're not calling it, I'm going to XYZ", that's your own choice.  It's not up to the refs to keep you from being a madman (or in Kel's case, a madam). 

     

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    The refs need to control the game as best they can. Sometimes they don't do such a good job, like in the Pitt game, and it can contribute to the problems. But that in no way gets the players off the hook for their actions. They didn't have to do what they did.

    The allies badly botched the treaty of Versailles in 1919, which created conditions that led to a madman rising to power. Woodrow Wilson et al are not responsible for the willful actions of Adolph Hitler and the Nazis. They could have chosen another way.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from perrysound. Show perrysound's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Blaming the refs is so weak.

    These aren't caged animals.  They are grown men.  They are all accountable for their own actions. 

    [/QUOTE]

    There are many adjectives to describe you NAS, but naive was never one of them. These are grown men who are fighting for their pay checks, and will do almost anything they can to stay. If not for the Refs... well, I can't image what it'd be like out there. There'd be limbs lying on the ice. 

    Fair-play! Come on. These guys have been conditioned to take the body hard since they were young. They play in a different world than we do. You can't just start a fight with someone because he gave you a sideways look, like you can in the NHL. That is the jungle they work and play in. Ours is a little more controlled. 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    There are times when I think refs can control aspects of a game, and thereby prevent injuries and or unnecessary aggression.  Goalie interference is usually a good example of this.  If you start letting things go it is bound to get worse and when it is called inconsistently, players will exploit that area of confusion.  Let it go long enough and people are crashing into the goalie right and left.  Defensmen are then left to take action themselves.  The refs can easily reign that in.

    But, jeez, what Thornton and Neal did falls so far outside of 'bending the rules' that I don't know how you can possibly blame the refs.  What cue did James Neal get from the refs that made him think driving his knee into another players head, intentionally, was going to be okay?

    "Hey, you guys missed a tripping call on Chris Kelly -- don't blame me for kneeing a prone player in the head..."

    It does seem like players need to have a little accountability for these things.  Thornton seems to be accepting the blame just fine.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are times when I think refs can control aspects of a game, and thereby prevent injuries and or unnecessary aggression.  Goalie interference is usually a good example of this.  If you start letting things go it is bound to get worse and when it is called inconsistently, players will exploit that area of confusion.  Let it go long enough and people are crashing into the goalie right and left.  Defensmen are then left to take action themselves.  The refs can easily reign that in.

    But, jeez, what Thornton and Neal did falls so far outside of 'bending the rules' that I don't know how you can possibly blame the refs.  What cue did James Neal get from the refs that made him think driving his knee into another players head, intentionally, was going to be okay?

    "Hey, you guys missed a tripping call on Chris Kelly -- don't blame me for kneeing a prone player in the head..."

    It does seem like players need to have a little accountability for these things.  Thornton seems to be accepting the blame just fine.

    [/QUOTE]

    Thats it right there. Well said.

    Good point about the goalie interference calls, I'll add that soemtimes when the scrums in front of the net get too frequent the refs will sometimes start handing out misconducts and usually that ends it.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    There are times when I think refs can control aspects of a game, and thereby prevent injuries and or unnecessary aggression.  Goalie interference is usually a good example of this.  If you start letting things go it is bound to get worse and when it is called inconsistently, players will exploit that area of confusion.  Let it go long enough and people are crashing into the goalie right and left.  Defensmen are then left to take action themselves.  The refs can easily reign that in.

    But, jeez, what Thornton and Neal did falls so far outside of 'bending the rules' that I don't know how you can possibly blame the refs.  What cue did James Neal get from the refs that made him think driving his knee into another players head, intentionally, was going to be okay?

    "Hey, you guys missed a tripping call on Chris Kelly -- don't blame me for kneeing a prone player in the head..."

    It does seem like players need to have a little accountability for these things.  Thornton seems to be accepting the blame just fine.



    Perfectly said Fletcher! Great stuff!!

    May I add though..Neal certainly didn't though...Took the Pens coach & GM to tell him to change his attitude before he did. Regardless of how any of us feel about ST...You at least have to give the guy credit for accepting his responsibility & showed a lot of remorse for it. I can't stand James Neal now for how he conducted himself. The basta...d is showing he's one of the best snipers in the game, but he's a real di..ckhead! 

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    There are times when I think refs can control aspects of a game, and thereby prevent injuries and or unnecessary aggression.  Goalie interference is usually a good example of this.  If you start letting things go it is bound to get worse and when it is called inconsistently, players will exploit that area of confusion.  Let it go long enough and people are crashing into the goalie right and left.  Defensmen are then left to take action themselves.  The refs can easily reign that in.

    But, jeez, what Thornton and Neal did falls so far outside of 'bending the rules' that I don't know how you can possibly blame the refs.  What cue did James Neal get from the refs that made him think driving his knee into another players head, intentionally, was going to be okay?

    "Hey, you guys missed a tripping call on Chris Kelly -- don't blame me for kneeing a prone player in the head..."

    It does seem like players need to have a little accountability for these things.  Thornton seems to be accepting the blame just fine.

     

    [/QUOTE]

    Perfectly said Fletcher! Great stuff!!

     

    May I add though..Neal certainly didn't though...Took the Pens coach & GM to tell him to change his attitude before he did. Regardless of how any of us feel about ST...You at least have to give the guy credit for accepting his responsibility & showed a lot of remorse for it. I can't stand James Neal now for how he conducted himself. The basta...d is showing he's one of the best snipers in the game, but he's a real di..ckhead! 

    [/QUOTE]

    Yeah, kind of lost in all of this is the reaction by Thornton. I think what he did was wrong, and everyone knows how much I hammer him, but I will give him credit for standing up and taking responsibilty. The way he reacted was out of character for him but I thought he handled it after perfectly.

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    I disagree with anyone who say it was not a policing by Thornton.  It is quite clear the Peguins came in to that with an agenda to hurt as many Bruins as possible.  Both the Orpik hit and the Neal hit show this.  If Orpik was intrested in anything but hurting Eriksson, (a player he new had a concussion already) he would have played the puck, all he had to do is step inside of Eriksson and he had puck possession and a clear path to goal.  He was so focussed on hurting Eriksson he passed up the correct hockey play.  The Neal play speaks for itself.  So there were two play in the first 10 minutes that were clearly attempts to injure.  It is Thornton job as an enforcer to stop players from attempting to injure Bruins players.  While he was not entirely effective as Kelly was later injured (more proof of the Penguins injuring agenda) he atleast slowed it down. Who can say how many Bruins would have gotten injured if Thornton had not done what he did?

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to Orrthebest's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I disagree with anyone who say it was not a policing by Thornton.  It is quite clear the Peguins came in to that with an agenda to hurt as many Bruins as possible.  Both the Orpik hit and the Neal hit show this.  If Orpik was intrested in anything but hurting Eriksson, (a player he new had a concussion already) he would have played the puck, all he had to do is step inside of Eriksson and he had puck possession and a clear path to goal.  He was so focussed on hurting Eriksson he passed up the correct hockey play.  The Neal play speaks for itself.  So there were two play in the first 10 minutes that were clearly attempts to injure.  It is Thornton job as an enforcer to stop players from attempting to injure Bruins players.  While he was not entirely effective as Kelly was later injured (more proof of the Penguins injuring agenda) he atleast slowed it down. Who can say how many Bruins would have gotten injured if Thornton had not done what he did?

    [/QUOTE]


    How ridiculous.  Have you seen the play?  Orpik was going to play the puck but it came off the boards weird, forcing him to take the body instead.

    And if it's Thornton's job to stop people from hurting his teammates, he's terrible at it and needs to be fired immediately!

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chef09. Show Chef09's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:

     

    The allies badly botched the treaty of Versailles in 1919, which created conditions that led to a madman rising to power. Woodrow Wilson et al are not responsible for the willful actions of Adolph Hitler and the Nazis. They could have chosen another way.



    WTL: Nice use of "The Treaty of Versailles" in a hockey forum. . . . 2 points. or maybe the "Wiser's Whisky guys" should be clapping.  (Wrote a paper on it last year in my WWII class through SFU)- again I say good job!

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to Chef09's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    The allies badly botched the treaty of Versailles in 1919, which created conditions that led to a madman rising to power. Woodrow Wilson et al are not responsible for the willful actions of Adolph Hitler and the Nazis. They could have chosen another way.

    [/QUOTE]

    WTL: Nice use of "The Treaty of Versailles" in a hockey forum. . . . 2 points. or maybe the "Wiser's Whisky guys" should be clapping.  (Wrote a paper on it last year in my WWII class through SFU)- againm good job!

    [/QUOTE]


    Thanks Chef. It's not easy to work something like that into hockey forum! lol

    Hope you aced the paper.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Orrthebest's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I disagree with anyone who say it was not a policing by Thornton.  It is quite clear the Peguins came in to that with an agenda to hurt as many Bruins as possible.  Both the Orpik hit and the Neal hit show this.  If Orpik was intrested in anything but hurting Eriksson, (a player he new had a concussion already) he would have played the puck, all he had to do is step inside of Eriksson and he had puck possession and a clear path to goal.  He was so focussed on hurting Eriksson he passed up the correct hockey play.  The Neal play speaks for itself.  So there were two play in the first 10 minutes that were clearly attempts to injure.  It is Thornton job as an enforcer to stop players from attempting to injure Bruins players.  While he was not entirely effective as Kelly was later injured (more proof of the Penguins injuring agenda) he atleast slowed it down. Who can say how many Bruins would have gotten injured if Thornton had not done what he did?

    [/QUOTE]


    How ridiculous.  Have you seen the play?  Orpik was going to play the puck but it came off the boards weird, forcing him to take the body instead.

    And if it's Thornton's job to stop people from hurting his teammates, he's terrible at it and needs to be fired immediately!

    [/QUOTE]


    Please explain why Orpik was already committed to the hit before the puck bounced off the boards behind Eriksson then.  Orpik had no idea where the puck was he assumed the defenseman was going to rim the puck and was completely dedicated to the hit. 

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chef09. Show Chef09's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to WalkTheLine's comment:/QUOTE]


    Thanks Chef. It's not easy to work something like that into hockey forum! lol

    Hope you aced the paper.

    [/QUOTE]


    I got a B which was pretty good since I was working full time while doing the course on line. I earned every one of the 4 credits.Lots of readings etc.

    The Bruins and Pens have been in some weird stuff in the past too. I remember a game where Neely was back from injury, attacked Ulf and was kicked out of the game. Bruins then lost the game.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Orrthebest's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I disagree with anyone who say it was not a policing by Thornton.  It is quite clear the Peguins came in to that with an agenda to hurt as many Bruins as possible.  Both the Orpik hit and the Neal hit show this.  If Orpik was intrested in anything but hurting Eriksson, (a player he new had a concussion already) he would have played the puck, all he had to do is step inside of Eriksson and he had puck possession and a clear path to goal.  He was so focussed on hurting Eriksson he passed up the correct hockey play.  The Neal play speaks for itself.  So there were two play in the first 10 minutes that were clearly attempts to injure.  It is Thornton job as an enforcer to stop players from attempting to injure Bruins players.  While he was not entirely effective as Kelly was later injured (more proof of the Penguins injuring agenda) he atleast slowed it down. Who can say how many Bruins would have gotten injured if Thornton had not done what he did?

    [/QUOTE]


    How ridiculous.  Have you seen the play?  Orpik was going to play the puck but it came off the boards weird, forcing him to take the body instead.

    And if it's Thornton's job to stop people from hurting his teammates, he's terrible at it and needs to be fired immediately!

    [/QUOTE]


    Funny I am watching OTR and Milbury is on and say Orpik had no idea where the puck was and no idea if Eriksson touched it or not.  I hate that it is Milbury but show other see it the same way I do.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are times when I think refs can control aspects of a game, and thereby prevent injuries and or unnecessary aggression.  Goalie interference is usually a good example of this.  If you start letting things go it is bound to get worse and when it is called inconsistently, players will exploit that area of confusion.  Let it go long enough and people are crashing into the goalie right and left.  Defensmen are then left to take action themselves.  The refs can easily reign that in.

    But, jeez, what Thornton and Neal did falls so far outside of 'bending the rules' that I don't know how you can possibly blame the refs.  What cue did James Neal get from the refs that made him think driving his knee into another players head, intentionally, was going to be okay?

    "Hey, you guys missed a tripping call on Chris Kelly -- don't blame me for kneeing a prone player in the head..."

    It does seem like players need to have a little accountability for these things.  Thornton seems to be accepting the blame just fine.

    [/QUOTE]


    I mostly agree Fletch but still can't help feeling like they botched the call on Neal. I mean, if the ref is going to admit he saw what Neal did, then how can he justify only a 2 minute minor? It was a clear head shot that was easy for Neal to avoid. It was like the non-call on Phaneuf, which I guess was because it was late in a close game. I'm sure I've seen Lucic tossed from playoff games for less.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from DaveyN. Show DaveyN's posts

    Re: Fraser ex ref opinion ?

    In response to dezaruchi's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    There are times when I think refs can control aspects of a game, and thereby prevent injuries and or unnecessary aggression.  Goalie interference is usually a good example of this.  If you start letting things go it is bound to get worse and when it is called inconsistently, players will exploit that area of confusion.  Let it go long enough and people are crashing into the goalie right and left.  Defensmen are then left to take action themselves.  The refs can easily reign that in.

    But, jeez, what Thornton and Neal did falls so far outside of 'bending the rules' that I don't know how you can possibly blame the refs.  What cue did James Neal get from the refs that made him think driving his knee into another players head, intentionally, was going to be okay?

    "Hey, you guys missed a tripping call on Chris Kelly -- don't blame me for kneeing a prone player in the head..."

    It does seem like players need to have a little accountability for these things.  Thornton seems to be accepting the blame just fine.

    [/QUOTE]


    I mostly agree Fletch but still can't help feeling like they botched the call on Neal. I mean, if the ref is going to admit he saw what Neal did, then how can he justify only a 2 minute minor? It was a clear head shot that was easy for Neal to avoid. It was like the non-call on Phaneuf, which I guess was because it was late in a close game. I'm sure I've seen Lucic tossed from playoff games for less.

    [/QUOTE]


    I agree with the fact that he shouldve gotten more of a penalty and probably a game misconduct for something like that. But i still cant see how that would have stopped Neal from doing it in the first place.

     

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