Having doubts about Bergeron

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    Having doubts about Bergeron

    I know I am probably going to catch h.... from some you, but I'm going to throw it out there anyways. I am seriously having doubts about Bergeron 's ability to be a productive forward. Earlier this week someone suggested Bergy would probably make a good puck moving defenseman; I now tend to agree. Your thoughts.
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    Most uderrated player in the NHL....you r a dumbazz
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    Thomas is excellent, but CJ's system and the commitment to D by the whole team and having Chara shutting down opposing stars make him even better.  He hasn't won games on his own.  THis is an excetptional defensive team.  Bergeron is also a big part of that.  I'm a huge Bergeron fan.  That said, I think the argument that he will never be great offensively has merrit and to say that he is maybe not worth his cap hit is not an ignorant point of view.  Is he that much better defensively than say... Greg Campbell (who costs peanuts)?  However, I think he brings great intangebles and his offence is stunted in part because of his shut-down role.  He put up decent points when given the chance to play on the top line.  I would have him on my team any day, he's good in the playoffs and I'm glad he's a Bruin.
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    In Response to Having doubts about Bergeron:
    [QUOTE]I know I am probably going to catch h.... from some you, but I'm going to throw it out there anyways. I am seriously having doubts about Bergeron 's ability to be a productive forward. Earlier this week someone suggested Bergy would probably make a good puck moving defenseman; I now tend to agree. Your thoughts.
    Posted by Bruin1972[/QUOTE]  Bergeron is untouchable in the eyes of these people that post here,Bergy & Chara have nothing to do with this team when its going bad only when its winning, lead by example they don't, he should be producing more, he gets pp time, about d-man, look at the bad passes he make whil on the ppp trying to force the point to point pass & alsmost cost 2 break aways on one pp the other night,
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    I have no doubts about Bergeron at all. I could care less how many regular season points he gets. He is a guy I want on the team come playoff time. His value to this team does not show up on the scoresheet.

    Patrice Bergeron is part of the solution here & not the problem. Yeah he took a bad penalty Saturday but that happens very rarely with him. This is the guy I want on the ice in the last minute of a big playoff game. There is a lot more to hockey then stats. The guy appears all about the team & may sacrifice his offensive stats overall for the team.
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    Bergeron has UNDER-ACHIEVED this year. I'm sorry but why can't B's fans admit the truth. When a player gets over 5mil/per-yr, he should be doing more than be a 3rd-line checking forward, who wins face-offs, and plays good along the boards. This guy sees regular PP duty, but has not produced offensively. After looking so good at the end of last season, and in the playoffs, I though Bergy was going to have a really good season ( 30 goals and 70-75 pts) but he is obviously unable to score on a consistent basis, and he and Big Z have been BIG-TIME DISAPPOINTMENTS this year.

     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    He is a Center (for all my Canadian friends; Centre)...and a danged good one at that. He is not nor will ever be a D-Man. Yeah the penalty sucked, but if it's not him in the box maybe they win that game? He is THAT important to one of the best penaly kills in the game. He's worth every penny and can play for my team any day. Iswear some of you look at the stats only and don't actually watch the games. He's indispensable to the B's.
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    Bruins 1972/uppercut. have you ever played or coached hockey at any level?? Your comments are naive at best. Bergeron is a solid all-around player. Sure he could play defense, and I'm sure his peewee and bantam coaches considered it, and concluded that he was much more prodective and overall effective up front.His first year in Boston, he played on the wing, as he learned the NHL game. Like Seguin, he came right from juniors. His progression was steady, and he appeared to be on a breakout year when Randy Jones caused a severe concussion that required a year for basic recovery. He has been moving forward once again and, whether he liked it or not, has been used as a shut-down center by Claude. In signing his new "home-town" contract, he also was promised, by Chiarelli, that his wings would be more offensively capable. His work with Horton and Lucic was solid, and could have progressed Offensively, but, Claude needed him more in a shutdown role. He is a team first player who followed his instructions, but anyone with hockey sense knows that an aging Recchi and a "work in progress" Wheeler are not exactly top notch offensive players. He has helped "train" Caron who is much more effective with Bergeron than on any other line. As a team first player he will bide his time until Sauve or McNight or Arneil are ready for the Bruins.
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    Can't believe those idiots in Canada put him on the Olympic team (while going on the win the gold).  I'm sure they were only looking at his statistics -- which were far less than about 15 Canadian born centers -- not his overall game or intangibles.

    And as far as the Chara bashing, there will be one and only one upside to the day that Chara moves on from the Bruins:  The whiney fans that never appreciated what he did in Boston will eat a huge plate of crow, watching the massive 27+ minute hole in defensive corps every night.  

    And I'm gonna be just like BadHab's waiter -- serving it up rudely, right people's faces just to be a $@%#...
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron : Jordan Staal is just as good as Bergeron Offensively, is better defensively, and gets paid a million dollars less. Just because someone doesnt agree with you doesnt mean they are ignorant
    Posted by screw-cindy-and-ovie[

    Sure he is ........that is why Bergy was on Team Canada he he was not....lmao
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron:
    [QUOTE]Can't believe those idiots in Canada put him on the Olympic team (while going on the win the gold).  I'm sure they were only looking at his statistics -- which were far less than about 15 Canadian born centers -- not his overall game or intangibles. And as far as the Chara bashing, there will be one and only one upside to the day that Chara moves on from the Bruins:  The whiney fans that never appreciated what he did in Boston will eat a huge plate of crow, watching the massive 27+ minute hole in defensive corps every night.   And I'm gonna be just like BadHab's waiter -- serving it up rudely, right people's faces just to be a $@%#...
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]Amen brother , people who don't appreciate what Chara brings to the table should try playing against him sometime . When you see how much playing time he gets , who he has to play against every night , and the critical situations he plays in every night , even a nimrod should understand that. But i guess there are exceptions to every thing . And for people who want Chara to fight every night , who in their right mind would want to fight him ? I don't see too many players stepping to the plate . Chris Neil did a few games ago but looked quite relieved to see Chara slip on a stick .
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron:
    [QUOTE]Bruins 1972/uppercut. have you ever played or coached hockey at any level?? Your comments are naive at best. Bergeron is a solid all-around player. Sure he could play defense, and I'm sure his peewee and bantam coaches considered it, and concluded that he was much more prodective and overall effective up front.His first year in Boston, he played on the wing, as he learned the NHL game. Like Seguin, he came right from juniors. His progression was steady, and he appeared to be on a breakout year when Randy Jones caused a severe concussion that required a year for basic recovery. He has been moving forward once again and, whether he liked it or not, has been used as a shut-down center by Claude. In signing his new "home-town" contract, he also was promised, by Chiarelli, that his wings would be more offensively capable. His work with Horton and Lucic was solid, and could have progressed Offensively, but, Claude needed him more in a shutdown role. He is a team first player who followed his instructions, but anyone with hockey sense knows that an aging Recchi and a "work in progress" Wheeler are not exactly top notch offensive players. He has helped "train" Caron who is much more effective with Bergeron than on any other line. As a team first player he will bide his time until Sauve or McNight or Arneil are ready for the Bruins.
    Posted by Bogie6[/QUOTE]

    Boogie, I am sorry, I should have stated up front that I am not a Hockey coach.
    In fairness to your point, Bergy did have an excellent first year in Boston, but the present reality is what it is, I do watch every game, and I know what I see. Unfortunately Bergy is not scoring, he has plenty of opportunities but for one reason or another he can't pick the opening and most of all he just can't lift the puck I'm sorry. This is not just one game -as some suggest- this is all year long.
    He can win face-offs yes I give you that, he can intercept passes yes, he can move the puck out of the zone, yes I give you that alco. He can't finish it and you got to give me that.
    So, how much more valuable would he be as a puck moving defenseman ? since we seem to need one desperately, that's my question. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsCountry. Show BruinsCountry's posts

    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron : Boogie, I am sorry, I should have stated up front that I am not a Hockey coach. In fairness to your point, Bergy did have an excellent first year in Boston, but the present reality is what it is, I do watch every game, and I know what I see. Unfortunately Bergy is not scoring, he has plenty of opportunities but for one reason or another he can't pick the opening and most of all he just can't lift the puck I'm sorry. This is not just one game -as some suggest- this is all year long. He can win face-offs yes I give you that, he can intercept passes yes, he can move the puck out of the zone, yes I give you that alco. He can't finish it and you got to give me that. So, how much more valuable would he be as a puck moving defenseman ? since we seem to need one desperately, that's my question. 
    Posted by Bruin1972[/QUOTE]


    "Boogie, I am sorry, I should have stated up front that I am not a Hockey coach."

    Not to worry B's72.  With all due respect, I think most us knew you couldn't possibly be a hockey coach based upon the thread you've posted here.
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    Sure, I'd like to see some more offense from Bergeron, but here is some fun with behindthenet.ca's new interface:

    This is the list of centers around the league who have played at least 10 games and average more than 10 minutes of even strength time each game, sorted by their 5-on-5 +/- scaled to be for 60 minutes of ice time.  At 1.16, it means the Bruins outscore the opposition by a goal for every 60 even-strength minutes that Bergeron is on the ice.

    He's #22 on that list.  What does that mean?  Since Detroit and a couple other teams have more than one center in the top 21, the net result of Bergeron on the ice is better than nearly half the number 1 centers in the league.  Lots of variable there, of course, but that should put his salary in perspective.

    Krejčí leads the league at 2.16 (the only center above 2!).  That line has been pretty good.  
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    Nice work DrCC
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bruin1972. Show Bruin1972's posts

    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron : "Boogie, I am sorry, I should have stated up front that I am not a Hockey coach." Not to worry B's72.  With all due respect, I think most us knew you couldn't possibly be a hockey coach based upon the thread you've posted here.
    Posted by BruinsCountry[/QUOTE]

    BruinsCountry:
    I am not a coach, but am not the only one on this Board who feels that Bergy is not producing goals to expectation. I know that to win in Hockey one must score; he ain't scoring. Apparently some of you are OK with him not being able to finish by finding the back of the net; then what would you lose if he contributed more as a terrific defenseman ?
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    A team that focuses purely on scoring and snipers loses games 5-4 every night. Bergeron has been on a defensive line for years. When he played with Horton and Lucic, he played the dishing role and did an admirable job at it despite the lack of experience. The fact is, Krejic and Savard are your offensive centers and Bergeron and Campbell are your defensive centers. All in all, I believe the Bs have the best centers in the league based on all around ability. Most outside of Boston recognize the value of 2-way play and the ability to send out 4 strong lines (reason why the Bs have failed to win a cup in 30+ years - 1-2 good lines).
    Pink hats dig snipers and goal scorers, people who understand hockey understand the value of all around players. I'd take Bergeron over Kessel any day and twice on Sunday.
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    • In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron:
      [QUOTE]Thomas is excellent, but CJ's system and the commitment to D by the whole team and having Chara shutting down opposing stars make him even better.  He hasn't won games on his own.  Your joking right?
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron : Your joking right?
    Posted by notacryingwino[/QUOTE]
    Yes anyone that doesn't worship TT is a fool.If only we could play him at every position and have him coach.The Bruins could finally win then(or shut you up.Frankly I'd settle for either at this point).
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsCountry. Show BruinsCountry's posts

    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron : BruinsCountry: I am not a coach, but am not the only one on this Board who feels that Bergy is not producing goals to expectation. I know that to win in Hockey one must score; he ain't scoring. Apparently some of you are OK with him not being able to finish by finding the back of the net; then what would you lose if he contributed more as a terrific defenseman ?
    Posted by Bruin1972[/QUOTE]

    To look at your idea in another way, how many goals would the B's give up by moving Bergeron away from his duties of trying to stop the opposition's top line?  I shudder to think. 

    Similarly, if the '80's Bruins had decided to put speedy Selke-Award-winning center Steve Kasper on defense, who would have been assigned to shadow Gretzky?  Kasper's record vs. The Great One was truly remarkable.  In fact, during the first 5-6 times #99 visited Boston Garden, I'm pretty sure he didn't score a single goal...a few assists to be sure...but no goals.  Goals came in later visits, say from '87 on. 

    I hope you better realize now why the idea of moving Bergy to D would not be in the B's best interests.    
     
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    Re: Having doubts about Bergeron

    In Response to Re: Having doubts about Bergeron:
    [QUOTE]Bergy will never score 30 goals or have 100pts in a season.  That being said, If he could be cloned, I'd put another Bergy on the bench.  Even at 5mil cap hit.  That way he could be on the ice 45-50 minutes a game. This is not fantasy hockey.  Bergy's real value can't put into a spreadsheet.
    Posted by -sabot-13[/QUOTE]

    He's already had 31 goals in a season, so there goes that theory. Maybe not a 100pt player, who is? But 70+ is more than possible! Didn't you see what happened when he was surrounded with good players for 6 games? He scored 8 pts, just as much as Krejci did for a 6 game span prior to his injury. The guy has been a victim of being put along side mediocre one-dimensional players. I cannot count how many times he has made tape-to-tape passes to Wheeler in the slot or on stride for him just to shoot it wide or try to deke out 3 defenders. He's hot tremendous one on one skills and no one knocks him of the puck. The system the Bruins play affects his play, and everyone else on the team's for that matter. Krejci can one day become a legit 85-95 pt center. but he will never be that in a defensive oriented structured team.  When Mike Sullivan and Pat Burns (RIP) were the coaches you saw multiple players with 35+ goals and 70-80+ points. They played an more open game.

    I am not sure if you read my stats a while back but only 2 of the last 10 stanley cup champions have finished in the top 5 in overall defense. Pitt was 17 and Car was 19 and everyone else was in the middle of the pack. So, ask yourself this: Is this "Defensive trap" really worth all the hassle? I believe a major victim here will be Tyler Seguin, this kid got 100pt/yr written all over him. Not sure he will ever come close with Claude....
     

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