I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

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    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]-the poem begins with 'in Germany'  -the poem specifically mentions the rounding up of the Jews. -the poem was written by Martin Niemoller.  Apparently you don't know who he is, so I'll help you out.  He lived in Germany during the Holocaust, was captured by the Nazis for supporting Jews and was sent to the infamous concentration camp Daccau for 8 years. -This peom was a reflection of his experience.  IT IS ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST. .  Cheers. Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE] Yes this is true but you have to read the bio on him to understand how and why he came to feel the way he did. He initially (as did many others) supported Hitler. "However, Niemöller only gradually abandoned his national conservative views and even made pejorative remarks about Jews of faith while protecting—in his own church—baptised Christians, persecuted as Jews by the Nazis, due to their or their forefathers' Jewish descent. In one sermon in 1935, he remarked: "What is the reason for [their] obvious punishment, which has lasted for thousands of years? Dear brethren, the reason is easily given: the Jews brought the Christ of God to the cross!" 'considers Niemöller "an opportunist who had no quarrel with Hitler politically and only began to oppose the Nazis when Hitler threatened to attack the churches."  why he ever supported the  Nazi Party , Niemöller replied: I find myself wondering about that too. I wonder about it as much as I regret it. Still, it is true that Hitler betrayed me. I had an audience with him, as a representative of the Protestant Church, shortly before he became Chancellor, in 1932. Hitler promised me on his word of honor, to protect the Church, and not to issue any anti-Church laws. He also agreed not to allow pogroms against the Jews, assuring me as follows: "There will be restrictions against the Jews, but there will be no ghettos, no pogroms, in Germany." I really believed, given the widespread anti-Semitism in Germany, at that time—that Jews should avoid aspiring to Government positions or seats in the Reichstag. There were many Jews, especially among the Zionists, who took a similar stand. Hitler's assurance satisfied me at the time. On the other hand, I hated the growing atheistic movement, which was fostered and promoted by the Social Democrats and the Communists. Their hostility toward the Church made me pin my hopes on Hitler for a while. I am paying for that mistake now; and not me alone, but thousands of other persons like me. So, yes it is about ther Holocaust but because it was written as a result of the horror of what was Nazi Germany at the hands of Hitler and the SS. However, it is not specifically about the rounding up of the Jews but about speaking up when it doesn't apply to you - otherwise who will speak up for you. Which is what was said about 6 pages of threads ago.    'There were no minutes or copy of what I said, and it may be that I formulated it differently. But the idea was anyhow: The communists, we still let that happen calmly; and the trade unions, we also let that happen; and we even let the Social Democrats happen. All of that was not our affair. The Church did not concern itself with politics at all at that time, and it shouldn't have anything do with them either."  This thread has really gone down a path that has nothing to do with the original posting. You're both right in your argument - you're justing looking at it from different positions. maybe it's time to just agree to disagree??
    Posted by vcec[/QUOTE]

    All good points vcec, especially the last one.  My only contention was that the poem references and invokes images of the Holocaust, which is too dramatic for me, considering it was a one sentence facebook post about a healthcare regulation from our goalie.  I hated when people did this to Bush too.  Trivial references to the Holocaust are an insult to people that died, or survived, the horror of that time.  That was my rather simple point here and I appareciate the validation.  Truthfully, I don't want to fight with anyone here, but will stick up for myself when necessary.  Thanks for this post.
     
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    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : Ha,  Taking another run at me again, and again its like you're trying to argue that the sky isn't blue on a sunny day.  You want pompous and childish?  Read above.  Well done.  I'll ignore all the personal stuff and stick to the argument. steve, there have been a lot of posters here defending what Thomas wrote, and doing a very good job of it.  Nite, Kelvana, and others have actually made some very good arguments and chnaged my thoughts on some level.  Some of the discussion has been very good and there are valid points on both sides. Then we have your argument, which really has nothing to do with Thomas at all.  You've staked out your argument on the utterly absurd contention that the peom Thomas used in his comment "has absolutely no correlation to Hitler or the Nazis".  So instead of stooping to your level of namecalling and deflections, let's review the facts : -the poem begins with 'in Germany' -the poem specifically mentions the rounding up of the Jews. -the poem was written by Martin Niemoller.  Apparently you don't know who he is, so I'll help you out.  He lived in Germany during the Holocaust, was captured by the Nazis for supporting Jews and was sent to the infamous concentration camp Daccau for 8 years. -This peom was a reflection of his experience.  IT IS ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST. So, you can just admit you were wrong in what you said, or you can continue to be childish.  This is the single stupidest argument I have ever had on this board, because it isn't even about Thomas or the Bruins and you are clinging to a point that you are obviously wrong about.  Honestly, I'd love to get past this and hear your comments on something else -- from past experience I have found your thoughts to usually be pretty inciteful. Just admit you're wrong about the poem.  It's already obvious.  I admit I am wrong all the time and it will make you feel better.  Cheers.
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    You've been just at good at taking runs at me.  Regardless, I'll take responsibility for mine. Please accept my apologies.
     This is not about the "poem".  It is about Thomas and the Bruins.
    You don't like him speaking out.  I could care less.
    Because TT's politics apparently don't allighn with yours, you want him publicly flogged.  In order to push that agenda along, you infer he's a Nazi, which in our civilization, is considered more appalling than most things listed in the criminal code.  You use the "poem" to validate that charge, and it's totally in the wrong context.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from vcec. Show vcec's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    Fletch, perhaps what you are saying is that you are against using such strong words so flippantly? In that sense, you are completely right and although TT was making a valid point, perhaps his imagery could have been better. Niemoller himself admitted the words have been changed over the years to reflect national causes which makes me believe that it was about apathy that is not specific to a particular religion, race or political affiliation. 

    .....communists.... we let it happen; ....unionists, we let it happen;..... it was not our affair. 

    It really is just about apathy. And that is what TT was trying to say. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from FenwayChuck. Show FenwayChuck's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]I think somebody is coming for Thomas, they wear white coats.
    Posted by soups-7[/QUOTE]

    NAH, the Neo Fascists don't wear white..... besides WHite signifies purity, and there is no way any LEFT WING dictatorial person would want anyone to think that he was pure.....   The Murder unborn fetusses don't they?
     
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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : NAH, the Neo Fascists don't wear white..... besides WHite signifies purity, and there is no way any LEFT WING dictatorial person would want anyone to think that he was pure.....   The Murder unborn fetusses don't they?
    Posted by FenwayChuck[/QUOTE]



    come back when you can add something intelligent and relevant
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheBostonBruins. Show TheBostonBruins's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    Honestly, I really don't give a sh.it about TT's politcal views, but when he lets in 3 stoppable goals and we need a shootout to beat a team we outshot 41-22, then I'm pi$$ed. But, given the year he had last year, I'll cut Timmy some slack. I just hope he & Rask get back to form soon, because this crap we've been watching for the last month is very frustrating and not at all Bruin hockey.

    Oh, and in advance of Tuesday's tilt with the Rangers, I just want o get this out there now: Fu.ck the Rangers. Oh, and for Wednesday's game, fu.ck the Habs. Pi$$ on those c0.cksuckers.
     
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    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : You've been just at good at taking runs at me.  Regardless, I'll take responsibility for mine. Please accept my apologies.  This is not about the "poem".  It is about Thomas and the Bruins. You don't like him speaking out.  I could care less. Because TT's politics apparently don't allighn with yours, you want him publicly flogged.  In order to push that agenda along, you infer he's a Nazi, which in our civilization, is considered more appalling than most things listed in the criminal code.  You use the "poem" to validate that charge, and it's totally in the wrong context.
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]

    steve you know nothing about my politics  and your interpretation of my motives is, again pretty far off.  I am not a Democrat or a liberal.  I am neither a supporter of Obama nor the Glenn Beck camp.  But there is not a US president I have seen in my lifetime that deserves the Hitler comparison, in my opinion.  I hated this when it happened to Bush too.  I reacted honestly, not just to defend my personal interests.  I hope you can say the same. 

    I did not "infer" that anyone was "a Nazi" (??) (another ugly run you try to take at me there).  You're better than that, steve.  That is exactly the type of charge that I am objecting too.  I think you're saying things like that to run away from a losing argument.

    I think I have tried to avoid making personal insults towards you, depsite all of the ones you've made, but I do apologize if I've offended you.

    I still don't know why you picked this fight to begin with, and you should still admit you're wrong about the poem, but I don't want to cause any further frustration.  I think you should talk about the Bruins instead of trying to take other posters "to the woodshed".  You're much better at the former.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]Fletch, perhaps what you are saying is that you are against using such strong words so flippantly? In that sense, you are completely right and although TT was making a valid point, perhaps his imagery could have been better. Niemoller himself admitted the words have been changed over the years to reflect national causes which makes me believe that it was about apathy that is not specific to a particular religion, race or political affiliation.  .....communists.... we let it happen; ....unionists, we let it happen;..... it was not our affair.  It really is just about apathy. And that is what TT was trying to say. 
    Posted by vcec[/QUOTE]

    Bingo.  Thank you.
     
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    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]Disclaimer: I'm drunk anyways, I've been thinking about this, and I've come around on Timmah. As anyone can tell, I haven't been a fan of his, and I've called for his removal from the team. But now, I think this is the way to look @ our goalie (even if you are like me, an ultra-left socialist that wants to see fox news radioactive) I am fairly political myself, and I regularly broadcast my beliefs on Facebook (although I try to be tactful). I grew up as an excellent hockey player, and although I never was close to the pro level, I feel passionate about some of the problems of this world and some of the political roadblocks keeping us from advancing (i.e., the widespread scientific illiteracy that is the norm across the USA). Let's say lightning struck (twice?) and I made it to the NHL, I would probably resent feeling muted by Jon and Jen theist if I tried suggesting that our country has lost it's grip on reasonableness. So T.T. disaggrees with me, and I think from what limited information that I have about T.T., that he's probably foolish politically...but I think now... So what??? O.k.,  I think he's easy to manipulate, I think he probably doesn't have a high IQ, and I think its an embarassment that he can't see how  poisonous Glenn Beck is (his hero).... Our teams goalie is at an early teen level intellectually IMO.....But, I decided something tonight... although I don't like tim Thomas' political positions, I am not going to take a militant position against him.. because that is EXACTLY what I dispise about the people he has been manipulated by. I am going to listen to everything he says about the federal government, and even though I haven't seen any sign of intellectual honesty on his part... and any sign that he's considered the opposite view point, I am going to hope that he will come around and take a more open stance. I am not gonna ignore him because he hasn't said anything that can be interpreted as mean. He just seems worried about the world around him, and I share his concern (even though we have polar opposite beliefs on how to remedy it) I mean, The worst thing that Tim Thomas is is wrong about the role of government in this world. that's it.. and when you start thinking about it, that isn't something to be mad at.
    Posted by Olsonic[/QUOTE]

    I can't and won't takes sides on U.S. politics and policy but you sir have nailed on how both sides should view a debate.
    While many of you are correct on not wanting this subject on this board (and I agree it's not hockey talk) all this has been very very informative and feel it belongs here . Call me selfish.
    My neutral view on the subject really has me enjoy reading comments from both sides for example ; Fenway Chuck, vec and now yours OLs (of course other good posters like stevegm and fletch with their gloves off).
    Anyway freakin Rangers are winning again !
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from vcec. Show vcec's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    I Fenway Chuck, vec and now yours OLs (of course other good posters like stevegm and fletch with their gloves off). Anyway freakin Rangers are winning again !
    Posted by BsLegion[/QUOTE]


    best part of the day so far Cool
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]-the poem begins with 'in Germany'  -the poem specifically mentions the rounding up of the Jews. -the poem was written by Martin Niemoller.  Apparently you don't know who he is, so I'll help you out.  He lived in Germany during the Holocaust, was captured by the Nazis for supporting Jews and was sent to the infamous concentration camp Daccau for 8 years. -This peom was a reflection of his experience.  IT IS ABOUT THE HOLOCAUST. .  Cheers. Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE] Yes this is true but you have to read the bio on him to understand how and why he came to feel the way he did. He initially (as did many others) supported Hitler. "However, Niemöller only gradually abandoned his national conservative views and even made pejorative remarks about Jews of faith while protecting—in his own church—baptised Christians, persecuted as Jews by the Nazis, due to their or their forefathers' Jewish descent. In one sermon in 1935, he remarked: "What is the reason for [their] obvious punishment, which has lasted for thousands of years? Dear brethren, the reason is easily given: the Jews brought the Christ of God to the cross!" 'considers Niemöller "an opportunist who had no quarrel with Hitler politically and only began to oppose the Nazis when Hitler threatened to attack the churches."  why he ever supported the  Nazi Party , Niemöller replied: I find myself wondering about that too. I wonder about it as much as I regret it. Still, it is true that Hitler betrayed me. I had an audience with him, as a representative of the Protestant Church, shortly before he became Chancellor, in 1932. Hitler promised me on his word of honor, to protect the Church, and not to issue any anti-Church laws. He also agreed not to allow pogroms against the Jews, assuring me as follows: "There will be restrictions against the Jews, but there will be no ghettos, no pogroms, in Germany." I really believed, given the widespread anti-Semitism in Germany, at that time—that Jews should avoid aspiring to Government positions or seats in the Reichstag. There were many Jews, especially among the Zionists, who took a similar stand. Hitler's assurance satisfied me at the time. On the other hand, I hated the growing atheistic movement, which was fostered and promoted by the Social Democrats and the Communists. Their hostility toward the Church made me pin my hopes on Hitler for a while. I am paying for that mistake now; and not me alone, but thousands of other persons like me. So, yes it is about ther Holocaust but because it was written as a result of the horror of what was Nazi Germany at the hands of Hitler and the SS. However, it is not specifically about the rounding up of the Jews but about speaking up when it doesn't apply to you - otherwise who will speak up for you. Which is what was said about 6 pages of threads ago.    'There were no minutes or copy of what I said, and it may be that I formulated it differently. But the idea was anyhow: The communists, we still let that happen calmly; and the trade unions, we also let that happen; and we even let the Social Democrats happen. All of that was not our affair. The Church did not concern itself with politics at all at that time, and it shouldn't have anything do with them either."  This thread has really gone down a path that has nothing to do with the original posting. You're both right in your argument - you're justing looking at it from different positions. maybe it's time to just agree to disagree??
    Posted by vcec[/QUOTE]

    I really think it has everything to do with the original post vcec.  my latest comments above to fletch deal with that.
    I appreciate you jumping in here.  I really don't need to be right.  I'd like to get to the right answer though.
    I don't believe we're both right.  Is this "poem" not like a fable...a few thoughts, that combined, make kind of an all encompassing statement?
    To me, it's clearly about "speaking up".
    If it's "all about the holocaust", as fletch says...then what exactly is the message?  What is it about the holocaust, we're supposed to interpret.  If so, why is the message cluttered up with stuff about the Catholics, and the Communists.(and if it can't be summarized in a sentence or two...it can't be the message)
    Usually these things don't send 2 clear messages, that are unrelated.

    So what??

    Basically comes down to this.  If the poem's message is about speaking up, there's nothing to support the accusation that TT is a Nazi(or that TT thinks everyone else is), and I think that inference goes beyond fair ball.

    TT's been called dumb, shallow, a bunch of other things..could care less. Maybe I'm too sensitive, but I just think the Nazi stuff is an impediment to sensible debate, and way, way over the top.   
     
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    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : Yes this is true but you have to read the bio on him to understand how and why he came to feel the way he did. He initially (as did many others) supported Hitler. "However, Niemöller only gradually abandoned his national conservative views and even made pejorative remarks about Jews of faith while protecting—in his own church—baptised Christians, persecuted as Jews by the Nazis, due to their or their forefathers' Jewish descent. In one sermon in 1935, he remarked: "What is the reason for [their] obvious punishment, which has lasted for thousands of years? Dear brethren, the reason is easily given: the Jews brought the Christ of God to the cross!" 'considers Niemöller "an opportunist who had no quarrel with Hitler politically and only began to oppose the Nazis when Hitler threatened to attack the churches."  why he ever supported the  Nazi Party , Niemöller replied: I find myself wondering about that too. I wonder about it as much as I regret it. Still, it is true that Hitler betrayed me. I had an audience with him, as a representative of the Protestant Church, shortly before he became Chancellor, in 1932. Hitler promised me on his word of honor, to protect the Church, and not to issue any anti-Church laws. He also agreed not to allow pogroms against the Jews, assuring me as follows: "There will be restrictions against the Jews, but there will be no ghettos, no pogroms, in Germany." I really believed, given the widespread anti-Semitism in Germany, at that time—that Jews should avoid aspiring to Government positions or seats in the Reichstag. There were many Jews, especially among the Zionists, who took a similar stand. Hitler's assurance satisfied me at the time. On the other hand, I hated the growing atheistic movement, which was fostered and promoted by the Social Democrats and the Communists. Their hostility toward the Church made me pin my hopes on Hitler for a while. I am paying for that mistake now; and not me alone, but thousands of other persons like me. So, yes it is about ther Holocaust but because it was written as a result of the horror of what was Nazi Germany at the hands of Hitler and the SS. However, it is not specifically about the rounding up of the Jews but about speaking up when it doesn't apply to you - otherwise who will speak up for you. Which is what was said about 6 pages of threads ago.    'There were no minutes or copy of what I said, and it may be that I formulated it differently. But the idea was anyhow: The communists, we still let that happen calmly; and the trade unions, we also let that happen; and we even let the Social Democrats happen. All of that was not our affair. The Church did not concern itself with politics at all at that time, and it shouldn't have anything do with them either."  This thread has really gone down a path that has nothing to do with the original posting. You're both right in your argument - you're justing looking at it from different positions. maybe it's time to just agree to disagree?? Posted by vcec[/QUOTE] I really think it has everything to do with the original post vcec.  my latest comments above to fletch deal with that. I appreciate you jumping in here.  I really don't need to be right.  I'd like to get to the right answer though. I don't believe we're both right.  Is this "poem" not like a fable...a few thoughts, that combined, make kind of an all encompassing statement? To me, it's clearly about "speaking up". If it's "all about the holocaust", as fletch says...then what exactly is the message?  What is it about the holocaust, we're supposed to interpret.  If so, why is the message cluttered up with stuff about the Catholics, and the Communists.(and if it can't be summarized in a sentence or two...it can't be the message) Usually these things don't send 2 clear messages, that are unrelated. So what?? Basically comes down to this.  If the poem's message is about speaking up, there's nothing to support the accusation that TT is a Nazi(or that TT thinks everyone else is), and I think that inference goes beyond fair ball. TT's been called dumb, shallow, a bunch of other things..could care less. Maybe I'm too sensitive, but I just think the Nazi stuff is an impediment to sensible debate, and way, way over the top.   
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]

    If you think anybody here is calling TT a Nazi, you are far, far, more confused than even I thought.  That's a horrible accusation and you should be ashamed of it.

    Don't run away like that.  I get that this is a desperate move, but just choose to admit that you're wrong, without Nazi accusations.  That was the point of the whole thread to begin with. 

    C'mon steve, you're better than this.  Keep some level of decency here.  We all know TT is a good man, even if we disagree about his recent expressions.  Don't sink to this level.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???


    how about this?

    If TT has a right to say what he want under the 1st amendment, then I get that right, too, don't I?

    If I disagree with what you say, don't I have a right under the constitution to say it?

    Or is it only you that gets to use the first amendment right?

    So here's what I have to say:

    F you.  F all off all you.  Go F off and die.

    You disagree with me?

    Then you disagree with the first amendment.

    And that means you disagree with the constitution.

    And that means you disagree with the USA.

    And that means you are a commie or a member of Al Kaida.

    Thank you.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : I can't and won't takes sides on U.S. politics and policy but you sir have nailed on how both sides should view a debate. While many of you are correct on not wanting this subject on this board (and I agree it's not hockey talk) all this has been very very informative and feel it belongs here . Call me selfish. My neutral view on the subject really has me enjoy reading comments from both sides for example ; Fenway Chuck, vec and now yours OLs (of course othergood posters like stevegm and fletch with their gloves off). Anyway freakin Rangers are winning again !
    Posted by BsLegion[/QUOTE]

    Ha. I'm just trying to get to the penalty box so we can start our powerplay (he got the instigator).

    Get me ice for my knuckles!

    I like Ols idea -- I'll be back when I'm drunk.  The inebriated voice of reason...
     
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    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : steve you know nothing about my politics  and your interpretation of my motives is, again pretty far off.  I am not a Democrat or a liberal.  I am neither a supporter of Obama nor the Glenn Beck camp.  But there is not a US president I have seen in my lifetime that deserves the Hitler comparison, in my opinion.  I hated this when it happened to Bush too.  I reacted honestly, not just to defend my personal interests.  I hope you can say the same.  I did not "infer" that anyone was "a Nazi" (??) (another ugly run you try to take at me there).  You're better than that, steve.  That is exactly the type of charge that I am objecting too.  I think you're saying things like that to run away from a losing argument. I think I have tried to avoid making personal insults towards you, depsite all of the ones you've made, but I do apologize if I've offended you. I still don't know why you picked this fight to begin with, and you should still admit you're wrong about the poem, but I don't want to cause any further frustration.  I think you should talk about the Bruins instead of trying to take other posters "to the woodshed".  You're much better at the former.
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    you're picking fly dung out of pepper again fletch.
    I wasn't referring to your partisan politics. of course I don't know them.
    You don't like TT speaking up...you've stated that. Would you feel as strongly if he posted something about the plight of the sperm whale though?
    And you did make the Nazi inference, several.  They're all listed a few posts back...verbatum.
    This started because you came down pretty hard on a couple posters, early on here, that didn't agree with your interpretation of the "poem".  I explained that a few posts ago too.
    We're both in agreement that we hate bringing in nazi crap to any conversation, and I know you're sincere, but why in heck are you so determined to take it out of this poem.  It's to make Thomas look worse.  To further your cause.
     fletch.  You say the poem is "all about the holocaust".  I've read it several times, and am having a hard time finding the meaning.  I'm stuck on the "speak up" thing, I went in great detail about earlier.  Please tell me exactly what the message is.  Obviously it isn't generic.  Give me a couple lines that capture the essence and spirit of that poem.  Thanks
     
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    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : you're picking fly dung out of pepper again fletch. I wasn't referring to your partisan politics. of course I don't know them. You don't like TT speaking up...you've stated that. Would you feel as strongly if he posted something about the plight of the sperm whale though? And you did make the Nazi inference, several.  They're all listed a few posts back...verbatum. This started because you came down pretty hard on a couple posters, early on here, that didn't agree with your interpretation of the "poem".  I explained that a few posts ago too. We're both in agreement that we hate bringing in nazi crap to any conversation, and I know you're sincere, but why in heck are you so determined to take it out of this poem.  It's to make Thomas look worse.  To further your cause.  fletch.  You say the poem is "all about the holocaust".  I've read it several times, and am having a hard time finding the meaning.  I'm stuck on the "speak up" thing, I went in great detail about earlier.  Please tell me exactly what the message is.  Obviously it isn't generic.  Give me a couple lines that capture the essence and spirit of that poem.  Thanks
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]
    Can we all agree it's a holocaust themed poem that is about speaking up?
     
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    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    Steve, Fletch,

    Enjoy both your posts, especially when talking about all things Bruins/hockey related. What ya say you two call a truce or agree to disagree and get back to doing what you guys do best? Besides, while you two are busy in here, your missing one hell of a scouting report on Pekka Rinne!!!
     
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    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : Can we all agree it's a holocaust themed poem that is about speaking up?
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Yes.  That was always my point from the beginning.  This entire debate was a respone to the statement that the peom "has absolutely nothing to do with the Holocaust or Nazis".  I thought that was incorrect and said so.  This exact statement above would have ended the debate 5 pages ago.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]I don't think he was comparing anything to Nazi Germany, he was only posting a poem that was written back then. His point was that if you don't speak up because it doesn't apply to you, then no one will be around to speak up for you. 
    Posted by vcec[/QUOTE]

    before you get too sore patting yourself on the back for what you claim to be vcec's "validation", you may want to read what else vcec had to say above. 
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]Steve, Fletch, Enjoy both your posts, especially when talking about all things Bruins/hockey related. What ya say you two call a truce or agree to disagree and get back to doing what you guys do best? Besides, while you two are busy in here, your missing one hell of a scouting report on Pekka Rinne!!!
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    You got it Kel.  I have no interest in the name-calling here.

    An olive branch from me to Mr. stevegm.

    I'm busy writing a scathing reply to the Pekka Rinne thread author anyhow...;)
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from vcec. Show vcec's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    Okay boys enough. Come inside and wash your hands. Dinner's ready. 


     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : I really think it has everything to do with the original post vcec.  my latest comments above to fletch deal with that. I appreciate you jumping in here.  I really don't need to be right.  I'd like to get to the right answer though. I don't believe we're both right.  Is this "poem" not like a fable...a few thoughts, that combined, make kind of an all encompassing statement? To me, it's clearly about "speaking up". If it's "all about the holocaust", as fletch says...then what exactly is the message?  What is it about the holocaust, we're supposed to interpret.  If so, why is the message cluttered up with stuff about the Catholics, and the Communists.(and if it can't be summarized in a sentence or two...it can't be the message) Usually these things don't send 2 clear messages, that are unrelated. So what?? Basically comes down to this.  If the poem's message is about speaking up, there's nothing to support the accusation that TT is a Nazi(or that TT thinks everyone else is), and I think that inference goes beyond fair ball. TT's been called dumb, shallow, a bunch of other things..could care less. Maybe I'm too sensitive, but I just think the Nazi stuff is an impediment to sensible debate, and way, way over the top.    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE] If you think anybody here is calling TT a Nazi, you are far, far, more confused than even I thought.  That's a horrible accusation and you should be ashamed of it. Don't run away like that.  I get that this is a desperate move, but just choose to admit that you're wrong, without Nazi accusations.  That was the point of the whole thread to begin with.  C'mon steve, you're better than this.  Keep some level of decency here.  We all know TT is a good man, even if we disagree about his recent expressions.  Don't sink to this level.
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]


    Again fletch...you selectively omit and ignore all kinds of stuff. Please read my earlier post again. I said if "TT is a Nazi or thinks anybody else is." Just covering all the bases, cuz you're the one who pretty much introduced the Nazi slant.
    AND....you stated on page 2 of this circus...something about "Comparing Hitler to Obama"  umh...Hitler is Nazi, the one you say is doing the comparing is Tim Thomas.
    And oh...you haven't shared your version of the overall meaning of the "poem" yet.  I'm quite anxious to see that.
    And don't worry about the penalty box...you're still in the shower
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : Can we all agree it's a holocaust themed poem that is about speaking up?
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]


    Really like to Dez...but I can't.  too much in there about the unionisits, the communists, the catholics for the holocaust to get all the billing.  Good poems aren't created that way  there could be a poem about sun tanning on a cruise ship spouting a fun loving message.  To someone that watched a loved one die off the coast of Italy last month, that poem incites dread and tragedy.
    Regardless how someone chooses to take it...it's still a fun loving message/
    .
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking??? : Really like to Dez...but I can't.  too much in there about the unionisits, the communists, the catholics for the holocaust to get all the billing.  Good poems aren't created that way  there could be a poem about sun tanning on a cruise ship spouting a fun loving message.  To someone that watched a loved one die off the coast of Italy last month, that poem incites dread and tragedy. Regardless how someone chooses to take it...it's still a fun loving message/ .
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]
    Steve, I'm a simple man but to me the poem brought about images of Nazis and the holocaust even though I was able to get an overall meaning of not standing idly by while others are persecuted.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: I thought Thomas Was Done Talking???

    Ahem...I offer Mr. stevegm an olive branch.

    I have said everything I want to say about this, explained my point in great detail, and I think we've reached a conclusion here that I am happy with.  I don't even know what you're evolving point is about with the 'TT being called a Nazi stuff, but people are tired of our bickering and I'm sure we both have better things to do.

    So sorry for the frustrations and I offer you a cyber handshake.  Let's move on and up.

    If you choose to carry on here, you will be yelling at the wall, because I'm all done.  Chao.
     

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