In Chiarelli We Trust?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:

     

    No brainers or not, the pick still had to be made. Should he be not given credit for picking the right player.

    P.S. Not all BDC posters wanted Hamilton. A case of no-brained opinions ? 



    Agreed.  I think he should be credited with good picks there, even if the oportunity to screw it up was limited.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

     


    I hear what your saying Chowda, but what about these picks?

     

     2007:Hamill, Cross, Reul, Goulet, Ostrcil, Knackstedt

    2008: Colborne,Sauve, Hutchinson, Arniel,Tremblay,Goggin

    2009: Caron,Button,MacDermid, Randall,Sexton..

    Thats his draft picks from over 5 years ago. How many of those are you confident will be ready to contribute at the NHL level soon? I'm not judging him from 2010 on, but thats 17 picks from 3 consecutive drafts., I think there should have been some return by now. You?

     



    "Latest picks" are the words I used.

    People tend to want to talk about the first few years of PC's drafting because they didn't turn out so good for various reasons. Book has some good ideas on why ( sometimes he can be right ). Should those years be talked about solely in the way he's drafted ? Shouldn't it be based on his overall body of work in the draft ? I think so.

    Not to sling any mud at other posters ( oh heck , why not ? ), but that's like starting a thread on how the Bruins are not a very good hockey team, based on two weeks of play, while forgetting that they still have one of the best records in hockey because of the rest of the games they've played. 






     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to Chowdahkid-'s comment:

    In response to kelvana33's comment:

     


    I hear what your saying Chowda, but what about these picks?

     

     2007:Hamill, Cross, Reul, Goulet, Ostrcil, Knackstedt

    2008: Colborne,Sauve, Hutchinson, Arniel,Tremblay,Goggin

    2009: Caron,Button,MacDermid, Randall,Sexton..

    Thats his draft picks from over 5 years ago. How many of those are you confident will be ready to contribute at the NHL level soon? I'm not judging him from 2010 on, but thats 17 picks from 3 consecutive drafts., I think there should have been some return by now. You?

     



    "Latest picks" are the words I used.

    People tend to want to talk about the first few years of PC's drafting because they didn't turn out so good for various reasons. Book has some good ideas on why. Should those years be talked about solely in the way he's drafted ? Shouldn't it be based on his overall body of work in the draft ? I think so.

    Not to sling any mud at other posters ( oh heck , why not ? ), but that's like starting a thread on how the Bruins are not a very good hockey team, based on two weeks of play, while forgetting that they still have one of the best records in hockey because of the rest of the games they've played. 



    Yeah, I think the body of work is looking better and better as time passes.  If the first three years were sub-par (and in fairness to kelv, they were), then the next three years have been a redemption of sorts.  They've got a drafted home-grown guy in the blueline now, a few drafted NHL forwards in the lineup, and a promising looking crop of prospects in the junior leagues.

     

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    So far, Chiarelli has the Hamilton pick to stand on.  No credit for the Seguin pick as a BHab could have made that one.

    The Hamill pick was miserable.  There were so many better players to choose, and he chose that dud.

    Most of his choices have either been bad or haven't turned into anything.  Yet?  Maybe.  It'll take a couple of years to see the real body of work.  As of right now, Chiarelli is a draft day bust.

    When it comes to trades, he's done pretty well.  I think he did well telling Burke to hit the bricks on the Kessel/Kaberle deal and then ended up lucking out that Toronto was as bad as they were for the next two years.  It was a good trade that worked out great.  Last year's deadline deals were so disappointing.  They really soured my view on him as a great GM, especially after what he put together for the 2011 run.  Add in Boychuk and Seidenberg, and you're looking at high quality trading.

    For free agency, he's been above average.  No one can really ring him up after bringing in Cedfano and Savard out of the gate.  Yeah, I know Gorton was on the books, but those were Chiarelli's deals.  Pouliot was a joke.  Pandopho is worse.

    So, I'd say he's done a good job.  Not great, not poor.  Good.  He's had one great deadline, one miserable deadline.  Let's see what he does to fix this group of laggards and get us excited for another real Cup run.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bostonfan191646. Show bostonfan191646's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    So far, Chiarelli has the Hamilton pick to stand on.  No credit for the Seguin pick as a BHab could have made that one.

    The Hamill pick was miserable.  There were so many better players to choose, and he chose that dud.

    Most of his choices have either been bad or haven't turned into anything.  Yet?  Maybe.  It'll take a couple of years to see the real body of work.  As of right now, Chiarelli is a draft day bust.

    When it comes to trades, he's done pretty well.  I think he did well telling Burke to hit the bricks on the Kessel/Kaberle deal and then ended up lucking out that Toronto was as bad as they were for the next two years.  It was a good trade that worked out great.  Last year's deadline deals were so disappointing.  They really soured my view on him as a great GM, especially after what he put together for the 2011 run.  Add in Boychuk and Seidenberg, and you're looking at high quality trading.

    For free agency, he's been above average.  No one can really ring him up after bringing in Cedfano and Savard out of the gate.  Yeah, I know Gorton was on the books, but those were Chiarelli's deals.  Pouliot was a joke.  Pandopho is worse.

    So, I'd say he's done a good job.  Not great, not poor.  Good.  He's had one great deadline, one miserable deadline.  Let's see what he does to fix this group of laggards and get us excited for another real Cup run.



    with the exception of lucic, i think he's done a phenomenal job at re-signing his own players at below market value. Recent examples of such, bergeron, chara, seidenberg, krejci, marchand.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    Kobasew, Seidenberg, Ference, Boychuk, McQuaid and Recchi were great trades, not just good. I don't expect anything good soon becuase Chiarelli had said there is no trade market right now last week on the radio, confirmed by Mckenzie and Lebrun.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    As recently as a year ago, you wouldn't have said there were a lot of great options in 2007, but that class is starting to fill in.  I remember thinking there were two other options for the 8 pick and then some reaches - Couture, who went 9th, and Cherepanov who everyone said could go from 4-24 depending on the Russian factor.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

     


    with the exception of lucic, i think he's done a phenomenal job at re-signing his own players at below market value. Recent examples of such, bergeron, chara, seidenberg, krejci, marchand.

     

     



    I love PC as a GM, but I really think these re-signings were no brainers after winning a championship & it's anyone's guess how the players (Bergeron excluded) may have asked for if they didn't already win a cup. So I can't give PC credit on re-signings when it's the players that agreed to the deal he offered. However, I do give him Kudo's for helping creating an environment that makes players want to come to Boston & stay in Boston. He's fair, stays loyal as much as he can & I think the whole way he conducts himself overall puts him in the Ken Holland realm. I do question some of his draft decisions, but if you have a player who wins a scoring championship in the WHL;  he's available to take in the draft 8th overall; you're the GM of team that you're trying to re-build you'd be foolish not to take him. The thing I'm most impressed with is how quickly he turned this franchise around. IF ANYONE on here tries to tell me they expected Boston to be this good, this fast after the 06-07 season? I'll call them a bare faced liar! And I'm glad PC is the GM & NOT YOU, because Lucic is the best PF in the game & you're crazy if you think other wise!

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrrGOAT2. Show No4BobbyOrrGOAT2's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    Just wish he had brought in Hort one year earlier, when we gave Kess to TO, might have made the diff against Phi.

    This had been my biggest wonder why he didn't do this earlier, it was an obvious need, a no brainer.

    Tho glad Kess didn't go for Kab as was expected.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    So far, Chiarelli has the Hamilton pick to stand on.  No credit for the Seguin pick as a BHab could have made that one.

    The Hamill pick was miserable.  There were so many better players to choose, and he chose that dud.

    Most of his choices have either been bad or haven't turned into anything.  Yet?  Maybe.  It'll take a couple of years to see the real body of work.  As of right now, Chiarelli is a draft day bust.

    When it comes to trades, he's done pretty well.  I think he did well telling Burke to hit the bricks on the Kessel/Kaberle deal and then ended up lucking out that Toronto was as bad as they were for the next two years.  It was a good trade that worked out great.  Last year's deadline deals were so disappointing.  They really soured my view on him as a great GM, especially after what he put together for the 2011 run.  Add in Boychuk and Seidenberg, and you're looking at high quality trading.

    For free agency, he's been above average.  No one can really ring him up after bringing in Cedfano and Savard out of the gate.  Yeah, I know Gorton was on the books, but those were Chiarelli's deals.  Pouliot was a joke.  Pandopho is worse.

    So, I'd say he's done a good job.  Not great, not poor.  Good.  He's had one great deadline, one miserable deadline.  Let's see what he does to fix this group of laggards and get us excited for another real Cup run.




    yah, well, I liked the Hamilton pick a lot and was shocked he was still left when the Bruins got him

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    So far, Chiarelli has the Hamilton pick to stand on.  No credit for the Seguin pick as a BHab could have made that one.

     



    I don't know that you can give him zero credit for Seguin.  He made the trade to get the pick, he kept the pick in face of all kinds of (alleged) trade offers, and then he took the right guy.  

    Other GMs have screwed up scenarios like that.  I agree that just about everybody takes Seguin there, or Hall, but if you're going to evaluate his draft picks you've got to evaluate them all.  No need to weed out easy picks, its still part of the record.  Especially when Chiarelli was directly responsible for aquiring the pick in the first place.

    The most underrated trade was perhaps the Seidenberg one.  Its hard to state how much this has paid off and still does.  Seidenberg was critical to the Cup run and has been the #2 D-man since he was acquired.  And they gave up nothing to get him.  A fleecing.

    Chiarelli is a lot better than good.  We've been spoiled.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    I think you just have to be consistent in how you define the record.  If you look at the whole record, including Seguin and Hamilton, then I think you look at the whole record, including late rounds when it often seems like a monkey flinging its own feces at a draft board could pick more winners.  Guys drafted outside the first round since 2007 (now nearly six freaking years ago - these guys are now 24) have played all of 12 NHL games: MacDermid - 8; Spooner - 2; Rico -1; Arniel - 1.  Rico and Arniel?  Their time as legit prospects may well be done.  Arniel for sure - he's a Berlin Solar Bear.

    So what?  Well, in 2007, 10 teams found players in rounds 2-7 who have since played more than 100 NHL games, and Montreal, San Jose, and LA found two.  Back the number down to 75 for the next year (one fewer year to accumulate games played) and you get 17 players for 9 new teams.  So in those two years, you've got almost 2/3 of the league finding players who are contributing.  Some of them are core guys like Jamie Benn, some of them are key second tier guys like Alex Martinez or Adam Henrique, and some of them are fringe guys and injury fill-ins - but teams are getting value out of those players.  San Jose has gotten a lot of value.  LA has gotten a lot of value.  So it's not just the Islanders who needed bodies to replace empty jerseys.

    The numbers go down after that because later picks usually take longer to develop - or they'd be picked earlier.  So my point is that, while it's unreasonable to expect Chiarelli to have hit the jackpot numerous times after the first round, not getting so much as 10 games out of any player drafted since 2007 puts him in with the have-nots.  So you balance that with not screwing up the Seguin and Hamilton picks.  Worth noting that Hamilton, as of now, looks like the last of that year's can't miss prospects now, and most prospect ratings now have him ahead of guys like Huberdeau, Strome, Scheifele and Zibanejad who went before him in the draft.

    On the other hand, I'm more inclined to look at what he can get done between picks 10 and 90.  Those are the guys you hope can be developed into real players provided they have the talent base.  So no credit for Seguin and Hamilton, really, but also no mention of the fact that Dennis Reul was once Bruins property. 

     

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    Last point - his draft misses have not been near misses.  Yes, if Tommy Cross keeps developing he'll be an NHLer - just in time to apply for AARP.  Sauve, Hutchinson, Button - 1 game between them and that ending after what, 1:47 of ice time with an injury?  They aren't being held back by a young roster where it's a fight to get a chance.  They just aren't that good.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    Book, you speak too much sense for us empassioned fans....lol!

    Drafting aside, the way I look at it is like this. Has PC consistently supplied the pieces necessary to allow this team to compete at a high level? On the whole, yes. Although I do agree with NAS that last year's deadline aquisitions were almost comically pitiful to the point that only true homers could think Rolston,Zanon, and Motteau were going to put this team over the top.

    So, the score on PC's job so far is very good. That could change quite quickly, however, depending on what he does this upcoming deadline. Failure to bring anyone significant in and the lack of quality depth (a consequence of bad drafting) will almost certainly signal a short playoff run.

    By the way, I come back from a 3 day trip and these boards are almost totally taken over by trolls. What the hell happened?

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    PC and Feaster sitting next to each other ib leaf land tonight.  Welcome Sarich and Iggy soon.  

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to shuperman's comment:

    PC and Feaster sitting next to each other ib leaf land tonight.  Welcome Sarich and Iggy soon.  




    If PC makes that happen I will never make a dispraging word about him again, no matter the outcome....

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Last point - his draft misses have not been near misses.   They aren't being held back by a young roster where it's a fight to get a chance.  They just aren't that good.


                       "MacDermid - 8; Spooner - 2; Rico -1; Arniel - 1"

    Yes Arniel faded as did Sauve but Julien wants expierenced two-way centers like Peverley and Kelly. So when were those two given a chance ? During camp(s), that's it ?

    Only when injuries occured. Both Rico and long gone Jamie score 20 goals in their 1st full AHL season then get rejected for Caron who never sniffed at 20 goals. Contradictory for Chiarelli to draft them, tell them to earn their stripes ala Marchand in the AHL then here that Julien likes veterans and someone who didn't earn his stripes and was drafted after them.

    Perplexing is what it is, Chiarelli should trade his picks away if that's how he's going to treat them.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from No4BobbyOrrGOAT2. Show No4BobbyOrrGOAT2's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    2 positions could be filled now by any of the picks made in the last 10 years.  That of Panda and Thorn.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to No4BobbyOrrGOAT2's comment:

    2 positions could be filled now by any of the picks made in the last 10 years.  That of Panda and Thorn.




    And becuase Chiarelli consults Julien, MacDermid sits in favor of Thornton and Pandolfo mucks up the ice instead of Cunningham and Tardif or at least Sauve will get hurt trying.

    I would take the Hanson kid right now over Pandolfo but no, no NHL expierence says coach.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    I see it differently, SanDog.  I don't think either of them had earned squat, and when Arniel did get his one game, he was a disaster.  He was skating around without purpose and just flung the puck at the net randomly with his head down.  I thought Sauve would eventually get a shot, but both players have done much more to prove that they don't have NHL cred since their 20 goal season.  I was really surprised with Arniel going from 50 points and leading a bad Providence team in scoring to 24 points and playing his way out of a contract.  But he did it, and that's not because they didn't keep him in Boston in his second year as a pro.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    Put another way, SanDog - Cunningham has two 20 goal seasons in the AHL now.  Should they be giving him a shot?

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    When do Bruins 20 goal scorers in the AHL get shots when Julien wants Chiarelli to get vets...

    Did Marchand just get lucky that there was an opening ?

    It came down to Sauve and Caron at the begining of 2011-2012 season. One was coming off a 21 goal season in the AHL the year before and the other scores 13. I watched the pre-season games and Julien goes with the mucker...

    Trend ? Peverley was being shopped with no takers before Kelly get hurt. MacDermid sits for Thornton.

    When do the prospects get a chance ? in Boston only when injuries occur...

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to SanDogBrewin's comment:

    When do Bruins 20 goal scorers in the AHL get shots when Julien wants Chiarelli to get vets...

    Did Marchand just get lucky that there was an opening ?

    It came down to Sauve and Caron at the begining of 2011-2012 season. One was coming off a 21 goal season in the AHL the year before and the other scores 13. I watched the pre-season games and Julien goes with the mucker...

    Trend ? Peverley was being shopped with no takers before Kelly get hurt. MacDermid sits for Thornton.

    When do the prospects get a chance ? in Boston only when injuries occur...



    Really? That's news to me....

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

    Trend ? Peverley was being shopped with no takers before Kelly get hurt.

    Really? That's news to me....



    Let me know what is locked on you computer or what else you haven't seen on the internet i'm here to help.

     

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: In Chiarelli We Trust?

    Didn't mean to butt in on your conversation. I just really did not know Peverely was actively being shopped.

     

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