Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    Too many lines to quote, so here's the link:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-puck-daddy/stop-hockey-fights-off-opening-draw-embarrassing-trending-145308542--nhl.html#more-48945

    I see absolutely no reason why officials should allow staged fighting in any capacity. Seems like such an easy way to cut down the useless fights.

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bisson1. Show Bisson1's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    I don't understand the point of having non NHL calibre players staging fights with other non NHL calibre players. All they do is eliminate eachother, might as well dress someone who can play hockey and let these guys run wild in the AHL.

     

    How guys like Jody Shelly, John Scott, Tom Sestito, Kevin Westgarth, Eric Boulton, Brian McGratten, etc. have NHL jobs is beyond me.

     

    I don like fights that serve a purpose every once and a while though. McQuaid beating the sh*t out of Torres after his cheap shot was nice, as was Seidenberg pounding on Armstrong. Some staged fights are okay, like the one we will see Saturday between Dustin Brown and Shane Doan.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    Simple solution...Turn the TV off & don't watch until all the violience has stopped.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    I don't really have a problem with the staged fights themselves - if one goon wants to pound another goon, have at it.

    My problem with it is strategic - a lot of these guys are simply a waste of a roster spot, as they can't contribute beyond their fists. At least guys like Probert and Tiger Williams, likely the most feared fighters of their eras, could help the team win. Williams got 241 career goals. You want an enforcer on your team? Great - find one with some skill to go with it, otherwise you're just shortening your bench.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    If they think it is bad now I wonder how the 70's and 80's would go over.....

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    In response to jmwalters' comment:

    If they think it is bad now I wonder how the 70's and 80's would go over.....



    No kidding!!! I miss the old donny brooks! 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    LOL!!! The Bruins-Habs, Nords-Habs, Philly-Habs line brawls in the 80's in particular were classics. There is just not enough hate going around nowadays.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    In response to jmwalters's comment:

     

    If they think it is bad now I wonder how the 70's and 80's would go over.....

     




    But a lot of the guys who were tossing up majors in the 70's and 80's could also play. Williams was almost as dangerous with the puck as he was his fists. How many majors does Dale Hunter have to go with his 1020 points? John Scott's got 5 points in 5 seasons...

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    In response to red75's comment:

    In response to jmwalters's comment:

     But a lot of the guys who were tossing up majors in the 70's and 80's could also play. Williams was almost as dangerous with the puck as he was his fists. How many majors does Dale Hunter have to go with his 1020 points? John Scott's got 5 points in 5 seasons...

     



    True but many couldn't as well. Just like today. For every Scott and Orr there is a Prust or Lucic who can play. In truth, this has not changed as much as you are implying.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from mxt. Show mxt's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    It might sound stupid but make it a rule that each player must be on the ice a minimum of say 8 minutes (or so many shifts) per game. That might force teams to sit the guys that have no business on the ice other than to fight.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    But my point isn't about change, it's about strategy. Strategically it's better to have a fighter with skill, rather than willfully shortening your bench with a one-trick pony like Scott or Orr.

    From a point of trying to win a game the team is better served by having someone lower down on the depth chart who can toss them, but still stand upright on his skates and pass a puck. If you're a coach and you're looking down your bench who would you rather see - Adam McQuaid or Joe Finley?

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    In response to red75's comment:

    But my point isn't about change, it's about strategy. strategically it's better to have a fighter with skill, rather than willfully shortening your bench with a one-trick pony like Scott or Orr?

    From a point of trying to win a game the team is better served by having someone lower down on the depth chart who can toss them, but still stand upright on his skates and pass a puck. If you're a coach and you're looking down your bench who would you rather see - Adam McQuaid or Joe Finley?




    I completely agree with you. I am simply suggesting that it is not necessarily thecomposition of the players that have changed as much as both the rules and overall game tactics/strategy.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    In response to mxt's comment:

    It might sound stupid but make it a rule that each player must be on the ice a minimum of say 8 minutes (or so many shifts) per game. That might force teams to sit the guys that have no business on the ice other than to fight.




    Might be something to consider but personally I love the fact that Buffalo feel compelled to use up a roster spot on the likes of Scott. I give the Bruins a competitive advantage.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    Um, that's been my point pretty much since the beginning of this thread - look back at my first post. There's always been goons who can't play - but it has been and always will be a bad strategy.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    I suggested before that the league could have a rule in place regarding a minimum amount of ice team for each player taking a roster spot. For instance, if a team dresses a player with under 5 minutes of ice time for 2 games in a row, then they lose that roster spot (but still have to pay the player) for 2 games. The theory being, if a team can't find at least 5 minutes of ice for the guy, then they don't really need him or the roster spot. A minimum amount of ice time rule would force GM's and coaches to be far more particular about what type of player they want to put in the lineup. Stipulations could also be made to the rule to address the need to ease in 1st year players.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    Yes Red it was but I am simply repsonding to your reply to my first comment where you suggest that most goons back in the day were better hockey players, rather than "one-trick  ponies."

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    In response to jmwalters's comment:

     

    Yes Red it was but I am simply repsonding to your reply to my first comment where you suggest that most goons back in the day were better hockey players, rather than "one-trick  ponies."

     




    True, but I also said "a lot" not most, but I can see that I implied more than I meant. I do however think if you look back at the majors leaders of at least the 80's vs the leaders of the current league, you'd see more guys who could contribute something - even CementHead got 153 points in about 500 games (granted a trained monkey could maybe have gotten that many points playng with Gretzky)- vs. the majors leaders of today. I think you'd see fewer of the guys getting 5 in the box actually getting points or helping out in other ways like the PK.

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    In response to red75's comment:

    In response to jmwalters's comment:

    True, but I also said "a lot" not most, but I can see that I implied more than I meant. I do however think if you look back at the majors leaders of at least the 80's vs the leaders of the current league, you'd see more guys who could contribute something - even CementHead got 153 points in about 500 games - vs. the majors leaders of today. I think you'd see fewer of the guys getting 5 in the box actually getting points or helping out in other ways like the PK.

     



    Good point. Although if I were riding shotgun with 99 in his prime I might be able to score 20 too....lol.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    heh, yeah I edited it ;)

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    lol.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    Regardless of how anyone feels about this is irrelevent. You're right in everything that you said Red. The Probert's, William's, Hunter's & O'Reilly's could do both. However, you also have to remember that this NHL has never been more business savvy. And you protect your assets that you have. Lucic & McQuaid are two of the toughest in the league & both have certainly put themselves in the "best fighters" catagory. It's been said on here by numerous posters (myself included) how they don't want Lucic fighting the Jon Scotts. Why is that? Well there's NEVER going to be 30 coaches that won't try to sneak this goon into the lineup to take on a Lucic & Lucic & the Bruins take the chance of him breaking his hand on a no name call up. 

    So, this person who wrote this article doesn't have a clue! You can't put your stars out against the other teams goons to try & score early! You really want to take that chance? What if the goon decided he wanted to take a knee out? Or concuss someone? Sure he'd be disiplined by Shanny, but that doesn't bring your star back. If the road team decides that they want to start something. As a good coach you respond by placing the exact same calibe/type players that are on the ice. 

    Just like CJ did here.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-6NEfAoNVs

     

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    I think it would be pretty easy to curb staged fighting. Just step in and stop it. Problem solved. If two guys want to go for a legit reason in the flow of the game, then fine. If it's off a faceoff or clearly premeditated, stop it before any "momentum" comes from it and eject both guys.

    We all agree fighting has it's place...but the gist of the article is about situations where it really serves no purpose.

    Paired with this has to be a ruling from officials that when a guy makes a cheap shot and someone jumps on him to send a message/protect his teammate, the guy who made the initial cheap shot is the instigator - not the guy pouncing. Would also solve a lot of issues.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    In response to asmaha's comment:

    I think it would be pretty easy to curb staged fighting. Just step in and stop it. Problem solved. If two guys want to go for a legit reason in the flow of the game, then fine. If it's off a faceoff or clearly premeditated, stop it before any "momentum" comes from it and eject both guys.

    We all agree fighting has it's place...but the gist of the article is about situations where it really serves no purpose.

    Paired with this has to be a ruling from officials that when a guy makes a cheap shot and someone jumps on him to send a message/protect his teammate, the guy who made the initial cheap shot is the instigator - not the guy pouncing. Would also solve a lot of issues.



    Asmaha. I think that leaves too much at the discretion of the refs.  Every questionable hit is alraedy scrutinized enough without the refs then having to decide if it's worthy of being punched in the for it.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    But in a way nite, those fights against Dallas sort of back my point. Campbell and McQuaid can play, and even Thornton can contribute more than most of the other goons in the league. I get your point about watching out for your assets, but let's say you pack in a number of players with ability both with the puck and with their fists (like the Bruins have) and one of your players does get hurt in a scrap, if you've gone for depth at both skill and toughness then you could better weather it if and when someone busts a hand.

    The use of the pure talentless goon is one way to strategize about avoiding fighting injuries to assets - building a team with depth is another strategy for dealing with it. It's just my personal opinion, but I think the second strategy is going to win you more hockey games, and that's the ultimate goal.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Interesting read on fighting in the NHL

    In response to red75's comment:

    But in a way nite, those fights against Dallas sort of back my point. Campbell and McQuaid can play, and even Thornton can contribute more than most of the other goons in the league. I get your point about watching out for your assets, but let's say you pack in a number of players with ability both with the puck and with their fists (like the Bruins have) and one of your players does get hurt in a scrap, if you've gone for depth at both skill and toughness then you could better weather it if and when someone busts a hand.

    The use of the pure talentless goon is one way to strategize about avoiding fighting injuries to assets - building a team with depth is another strategy for dealing with it. It's just my personal opinion, but I think the second strategy is going to win you more hockey games, and that's the ultimate goal.



    Nice post Red.

    I think your second strategy is certainly the way to go. The unfortunate thing is that not all 30 teams have what the B's have. I guess using that Dallas game was a bad example, because the Dallas's players were also guys that can play a little. But I think the article is way off. As far as calling out Torts & Babcock, because of how they responded shows his mentality is void when it comes to this kind of thing. A coaches job is to do what he thinks is best for his team. If that means throwing a guy out there to scrap, or intimidate early. So be it. I don't think that's a staged fight. I think that's a way for a road team to get pumped up, because if I'm not mistaken all of these fights that the writer speaks of were started, because of the road teams starting line up no? So, unless the league comes up with a rule that the NHLPA needs to agree with. We're going to have to live with it. 

     

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