Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    With the continuing delay,  in Brad Marchand signing, we should look towards all the participants, particularly Arnott, Marchand's agent, who is also Kessel's agent. From all reports, Marchand wants to play for the Bruins, and , as with some young players has been convinced to leave the negotiations to his agent. Some reports, during the Weber negotiations, indicated that Arnott is noted for taking a hard line. Well. in Chiarelli, he is up against a fair, but tough GM., and Arnott  may be the delaying factor. Anyone have ny other info ? We do know that he advised Kessel to go for the dough.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    bogie!  C'mon man!

    1. Any agent's job is to get his client the best deal possible - dollars, term, situation.
    2. Delay is the only leverage an RFA without an offer sheet or arbitration rights has.
    3. No one has lost anything yet.  There is no pressure to sign Marchand for the Bruins and no pressure for Marchand.
    4. Marchand wanting to stay in Boston doesn't mean his agent should grovel to the Bruins for whatever they're willing to give Marchand for the priviledge of playing in Boston.
    5. Term is a huge factor in this deal.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    Bergeron, Lucic, Krejci, Chara, and Thomas all got done with plenty of time to spare.  Why is this one different?

    Book, I disagree that it's not a problem at all.  When a team is getting ready for the season, they need to know who they have.  Right now, there is a roster spot open for Marchand.  If they can't get him under contract, and Jamie Arniel is forced to play instead, that is a problem. 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

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    Generally I agree with Book, yet, after one excellent season as a rookie, Marchand needs to find time to leverage his agent for a deal.  Badhab said it best, "there are a lot of one year wonders" in the NHL.  Time for Brad to sign a short term deal and put another good season together.  
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand:
    [QUOTE]Bergeron, Lucic, Krejci, Chara, and Thomas all got done with plenty of time to spare.  Why is this one different? Book, I disagree that it's not a problem at all.  When a team is getting ready for the season, they need to know who they have.  Right now, there is a roster spot open for Marchand.  If they can't get him under contract, and Jamie Arniel is forced to play instead, that is a problem. 
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    That's still a long way away, and it presumes Marchand is willing to lose salary to make his point.  I don't think you'll see him choose to miss games.  He might go as far as missing a week of camp or something like that, and that would be a problem because he's a second year player not a ten year vet, but until we get to that point, it's not a problem.  I think they know they have him because no one is stepping up with an offer sheet.  It's just a question of when.  And a second line of Peverley and Seguin with Bergeron might just look good enough to bring home the folly of waiting to long after the steel hits the ice.
     
    How about I meet you half way - NO IMPACT is too far, but too early to worry, and highly unlikely to be a falling sky.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    PS.  Only Krejci's deal was done when he was an RFA.  Bergeron, Chara, Thomas were all extended before their earlier deals ended.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand:
    [QUOTE]PS.  Only Krejci's deal was done when he was an RFA.  Bergeron, Chara, Thomas were all extended before their earlier deals ended.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    P.S.  That's plenty of time to spare.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from nitemare-38. Show nitemare-38's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand : That's still a long way away, and it presumes Marchand is willing to lose salary to make his point.  I don't think you'll see him choose to miss games.  He might go as far as missing a week of camp or something like that, and that would be a problem because he's a second year player not a ten year vet, but until we get to that point, it's not a problem.  I think they know they have him because no one is stepping up with an offer sheet.  It's just a question of when.  And a second line of Peverley and Seguin with Bergeron might just look good enough to bring home the folly of waiting to long after the steel hits the ice.   How about I meet you half way - NO IMPACT is too far, but too early to worry, and highly unlikely to be a falling sky.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]
     Hey Book? Just trying to refresh my memory. Was Arnott the agent that Bryon Dafoe had fired during his Negotiations back in 2000; or was Arnott the agent Dafoe got after he fired his agent?
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    Arnott is winning, If I were a professional hockey player I would want him as my agent for sure! Agents get fired all the time because they don't hold their own hard line for their client or fold in negotiations.

    Good for Brad for thinking he's worth more! I hope he gets paid accordingly, Other than NAS, Does everyone on here think Marchand accomplished his first full season objectives as an NHL player ? 20+ goals ? CHECK Agitated opposing players to the point were many took dumb penalties ? CHECK Pressure playoff performer ? CHECK Cup ? CHECK

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from huntbri. Show huntbri's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    I agree SanDog but the problem may be that he wants to be paid as a proven talent who just played a major role in a Stanley Cup Championship.  The problem is that he has been a key performer for less than one year so there is a possibility that he might never play up to that level again.  I think he will continue to be a very good player but one decent year and a great play-offs is not proof that he will be a consistent performer.  If the Bruins had lost 1st round he probably would have been happy to get $2M a year.  He deserves more for what he has done but he may be looking for $4M  in the range of a player like Erik Cole and I think that is a lot to ask for based on one good year.  Now given a choice I would take Marchand over Cole, but Cole has proven that he is a consistent player while Marchand has not.  From the start I have said I would like to see them sign him to do a 4 year deal at between 3 and 3.5 per season.  I hope they can get it done but my feeling is that they are going to end up with a 1 or 2 year deal because they are too far apart on the average salary per year to agree on a longer term deal done.  My guess is the Bruins would go a little north of to $3M per year to get him signed but Marchand and his agent are sticking closer to $4M and that is a pretty big gap to close.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from crono420. Show crono420's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    Marchand should sign 3 year 11 million today. Lets get the season started

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    Book, my point was " who is driving the bus"? As Sandog indicates, Arnott may well be a solid agent, but, is he telling Brad " let me handle This ', and, is Brad an active participant or a 22 year old following along? Was the Kessel negotiations, which left Chiarelli with no alternative, a good representation? or an Agent looking to cash in?  Same question in Brad's case. Skilled Agents should get as much as the market will bear, but, is Arnott a practical/honest representative in this case, or an opportunist??
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from OatesCam. Show OatesCam's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    I agree that some agents push their clients to get maximum dough more than others, and that Arnott is one of those agents.  Would you want to have one of those agents?  It depends.  At this point in their respective careers, whose career would you rather have, Phil Kessel's or David Krejci's?  The approach of their agents is a big factor in where each of them are today.  I agree that Arnott is probably the reason a deal isn't done yet.  It's not a big deal, but it will start to become one come September.  It's foolish though, with the amount of cap space the Bruins have, no one will offer an offer sheet to Marchand.  Very different situation than with Phil Kessel.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Wheatskins. Show Wheatskins's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    Sandog:

    Dmr today, R6 (6:30pm post) #7
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from KennyBizz. Show KennyBizz's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    Right on SanDog.  Chia is in a tough spot, I mean its a unique situation with BM's playoff run and avg regular season, he's 23 and on the rise, no question.   Honestly tho- do the Bean's win the cup without BM?!!?.. IMO...No.   I don't think BM will be at camp if Chia doesn't blink and with Arnott across the table... this will drag on for quite some time. Some poeple feel you can't base a contract on what he has done, The Beans won the cup and BM was a huge part of that; his contribution was more then anyone would have thought and he wants the salary to match that.  Go get it BM.   
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

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    In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand:[QUOTE]Sandog: Dmr today, R6 (6:30pm post) #7Posted by Wheatskins[/QUOTE]

    Hopping in my car Vvvvooommmm thanks Wheat!
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou. Show shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    I would pay Brad Marchand $3.5 million (per year) over 2 years.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from samsonov. Show samsonov's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    who blinks first!
    I think PC might here as he will want March in training camp from the start!  Not sure Brad would care that much about camp when the last game he played he had 2 goals and an assist in game 7 of the stanley cup final!
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand:
    [QUOTE]who blinks first! I think PC might here as he will want March in training camp from the start!  Not sure Brad would care that much about camp when the last game he played he had 2 goals and an assist in game 7 of the stanley cup final!
    Posted by samsonov[/QUOTE]

    Brad would care when he started missing paychecks.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand


    As fans, we look at this all bass ackwards.  Although no short statement ever covers off anything...the truth is....it's pretty much all about the money.  GM's, and agents, and players spew out all kinds of rhetoric...but when you get to the NHL, it's a "job", a short term job, and "cashing in" is important.
    After preliminary discussions with the player, the agents are supposed to "drive the bus".  That's why players pay them good money.  Trying to find a villan here...is juvenile. 
    It's negotiation.
    Arnott would be an incompetent fool, to not attempt to leverage BM's popularity in the market, plus the fact he played a key role in a championship.  It is very, very possible, that BM's stock will never, ever, be higher than it is now, and it's the agents job...to exploit that.
    PC 's job is much tougher.  First we have the expiring cba, and more importantly, PC has to determine in his own mind whether BM's performance during the latter part of the season, and an outstanding playoff, was a blip on the screen, or a player coming into his own.  PC would be an idiot, not to argue small sample size. 
    As far as the cult status thing, Arnott is surely exploiting that too...and again, PC is probably countering with "ya know Wade, we can fix that pretty quick too.  We can get the city to turn on him like a dime.  What do you think will happen if we start talking to the paper about unrealistic demands?  You think the city will still be in love with this guy?"
    This is a toughie for PC, and a career maker for Arnott.  An agent that can boast a 400% or so pay raise in one year, is an agent that will get the attention of most players. 
    It's been written that negotiations are more stuck on term, than dollars.  That makes sense.  Arnott is wisely attempting to dictate current perceived value(which is very high)into earnings way down the road, leading to ufa status.
    PC's leverage, is the waiting game.
    Most hockey insiders considered Marchand a marginal NHLer less than a year ago.  At that time, if PC suggested a 3 year extension for 700 k per year, both Arnott and BM would have done flips and twists.  Nobody in hockey would have made that offer 12 months ago.  Simply because BM didn't necessarily project full time employment.
    Here's the question.  Is BM a player coming into his own?  Moving forward, is he an NHL second liner?  Is he a career 20 plus goal guy?
    Or.
    Has he simply done what most NHLers have done.  Play incredibly well,... over his head, for a short period of time, only to fall back to earth for the remainder of his career.
    Regardless, he's due for a nice raise.  No one would argue that.  I don't see how any logical hockey fan though, would want to tie up much for this guy long term.  Especially when he's rfa(meaning you don't really need to)
    That's why I don't think we're seeing offer sheets.  What's this guy really worth, not this upcoming season, but in 2012-13?  Just too hard to tell.  Right now there is just too much emotion, not enough data, to look too far into the future.
    Johnny MacKenzie, John Wensink, Stan Jonathon....loved em....but how much were they worth?  How long was their tenure in Boston?
    I'd be very surprised if the B's wouldn't happily pay Marchand 3.5 for 1 year.
    I think that's very generous.  I think 6.0, for 2 years is even more generous, and that's about as far as I'd go.  If BM plays even to current standards, 1 more good year will set him up for a great multi year, and...undoubtedly, his price will go up.  If I'm PC, that's ok.  He's still ufa, and I don't mind paying for a proven commodity.  Having an under performer on the team is certainly problematic for any GM.  Having an underperformer with 2 or 3 years remaining on a contract, is absolute suicide.
      Me thinks there is at least a 40% chance we've seen the best of Brad Marchand, so i'm not gonna bet the farm on those odds.
    Having said that, I don't blame BM nor his agent for attempting to get as much as they can.  It's a ruthless business, there is little loyalty from either side, and they both understand and exploit that.  If Gretzky can get shipped out of town, it's pretty naive for the rest to not take all they can get.  Especially, when the marginal ones are done before their friends get out of university.
     
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou. Show shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand:
    [QUOTE] First we have the expiring cba, and more importantly, PC has to determine in his own mind whether BM's performance during the latter part of the season, and an outstanding playoff, was a blip on the screen, or a player coming into his own.  PC would be an idiot, not to argue small sample size.
    Posted by stevegm[/QUOTE]

    Here's the problem. It wasn't just the "latter part of the season and the playoffs". He did it all year, from Game 1. Jumped off the page as one of the more impactful players game in and game out. Does things no one else on the team can do, and no one else on the Bruins has done for many years.

    You let him go, you declare "mediocrity is back in vogue in Bruins-land", and you give me lots more free time to use on more productive ventures, because Brad Marchand is one of the reasons Bruins hockey was fun to watch this year. You need guys like him with competitive fire who really, really hate to lose. You must have players who can find ways to produce through adversity or you will go 4 decades without winning. 

    Folks either see the difference, or they don't, and if they don't, they argue for keeping Bledsoe and trading Brady, and letting Brad Marchand walk after being a central piece in the first Stanley Cup in 39 years, maybe getting a handful of Zach Hamill's and the like in exchange. Brad Marchand may never be Tom Brady, but the debate is the same. There are a few players who really make a difference when it matters and those players help their teams win championships.

    I have picked a side and his name is Brad Marchand. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand : Here's the problem. It wasn't just the "latter part of the season and the playoffs". He did it all year, from Game 1. Jumped off the page as one of the more impactful players game in and game out. Does things no one else on the team can do, and no one else on the Bruins has done for many years. You let him go, you declare "mediocrity is back in vogue in Bruins-land", and you give me lots more free time to use on more productive ventures, because Brad Marchand is one of the reasons Bruins hockey was fun to watch this year. You need guys like him with competitive fire who really, really hate to lose. You must have players who can find ways to produce through adversity or you will go 4 decades without winning.  Folks either see the difference, or they don't, and if they don't, they argue for keeping Bledsoe and trading Brady, and letting Brad Marchand walk after being a central piece in the first Stanley Cup in 39 years, maybe getting a handful of Zach Hamill's and the like in exchange. Brad Marchand may never be Tom Brady, but the debate is the same. There are a few players who really make a difference when it matters and those players help their teams win championships. I have picked a side and his name is Brad Marchand. 
    Posted by shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou[/QUOTE]
    Very well stated. Many in the fan base share your feelings. It won't be popular with everyone but Brad is likely to end up somewhat overpaid and that suits me just fine. I don't suggest breaking the bank for him but a deal averaging around 3 per now seems likely(if not fair).
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand : Here's the problem. It wasn't just the "latter part of the season and the playoffs". He did it all year, from Game 1. Jumped off the page as one of the more impactful players game in and game out. Does things no one else on the team can do, and no one else on the Bruins has done for many years. You let him go, you declare "mediocrity is back in vogue in Bruins-land", and you give me lots more free time to use on more productive ventures, because Brad Marchand is one of the reasons Bruins hockey was fun to watch this year. You need guys like him with competitive fire who really, really hate to lose. You must have players who can find ways to produce through adversity or you will go 4 decades without winning.  Folks either see the difference, or they don't, and if they don't, they argue for keeping Bledsoe and trading Brady, and letting Brad Marchand walk after being a central piece in the first Stanley Cup in 39 years, maybe getting a handful of Zach Hamill's and the like in exchange. Brad Marchand may never be Tom Brady, but the debate is the same. There are a few players who really make a difference when it matters and those players help their teams win championships. I have picked a side and his name is Brad Marchand. 
    Posted by shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou[/QUOTE]


    Certainly entitled to your opinion shutur, but since this is all about discussion, as well as opinion, I'll have to disagree with almost everything you say above.
    Yes Marchand jumped off the page from game one, but not because of how good he was...but because of how colorful he was and his entertainment quotient, coupled with the fact that he wasn't expected to do really anything.  Fact is, he was the B's 8th best scorer, took way too many immature penalties, and had 2 game winning goals over an 82 game regular season.  You make it sound like he's Bobby Orr.  He had a much more impressive playoff, and was arguably as effective as anyone on the team.  Very few would argue that.  Why take it to another unworldly level?  There are countless examples, of  outstanding playoff performances, that were never ever repeated.  A few that come to mind include Bob Nystrom(islanders), Claude Lemieux(canadiens), Paul Henderson(team canada 72), Bob Baun(toronto)They all played over their head, and because it wasn't expected, made them immediate darlings of the fan base.  It didn't however sustain itself, or make them worth big contracts in subsequent years.  It's not a lock that maybe it won't happen to BM.  In fact, based on where he's been projected for a while now..it's almost as likely as not.
    This "mediocrity is back in vogue" without Marchand statement, is bold and dramatic, but it's also ridiculous.  Based on what you're suggesting, Marchand must be resigned at any cost.  Do you really believe that?  Are you aware of a salary cap?
    And, the fact that the B's won the cup....means little moving forward.  They came within a whisker of going out in the first round(Ryder arguably won that series for the B's).  Would Marchand be worth less if that happenned? C'mon.
    I appreciate you're a Marchand fan.  Me too, but he's just one cog in the wheel.  Potentially, a big one, but at this time...still not quite proven. 
    The fact he jumps out at you because of his antics doesn't change things.

    I think he'll be signed, but him and his agent are probably like many here.  They think he's priceless. Could be why it's taking a while to sort out.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsIn4. Show BruinsIn4's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    Great post Steve - I fully agree.  I trust PC won't fall into the over-value trap with Marchand.  3yrs at 3 mill. sounds right to me.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Is Arnott the culprit? or Marchand

    I can understand the angst that this situation is causing amongst B's fans. 

    My take? That PC had his list of priorities to get done this summer, and he's worked his way through them.  Arnott has also had his summer 'to do' list, and he's been working through them.  When Arnott calls PC, he might have responded "yep, I want to talk about Brad, but I've got a couple of front-burner issues right now, let's talk in a couple of weeks".  Then when PC calls, he gets sorta-kinda the same response from Arnott, who's right in the middle of negs with his other clients.  Then, someone goes to the lake for a week, someone takes in the R&D camp for a couple of days, and nobody connects.  Or maybe, there's an initial offer, and the above mentioned circumstances cause delays in the counter-offer, etc.

    I'm almost 100% sure this deal will get done by the end of the 1st week of Sept.  Cripes, the guy's 23, and he's already got a ring -- why wouldn't he want to stay, and possibly win some more? PC's seen the contribution this guy brings when it's crunch time, so why wouldn't he want him as part of the mix?

    The only things that might cause problems are: an offer sheet, which we likely would have seen by now, some unforeseen hardheadedness by either side (which is entirely possible), or something from "inside the room" that nobody here knows about (but has been hinted/rumoured on this forum by others).

    Relax, Bruins fans, as much as I'd like to see Brad sign with a team that has no chance of making the playoffs, and thus eliminating the chance that the Canucks will see him again in April/May/June, I'd be very surprised if he wasn't wearing the spoked B again next month in camp.
     

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