PC Presser

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to JWensink's comment:

     



    Nite

     

    Holy Sh1t ...I never said "increase" the offer- never

    For the last time - I'm sayin that If you want Jarome Iginla and you're going up against Pitt which is where everyone should have expected him to prefer, especially the GM who gets paid the big bucks to deal with this kind of tricky high level negotiations ...you don't go in with Matt Bartkowski and a prospect because that is just too easy to have another offer in the same ballpark that would give the Flames and Iginla a publicly reasonable excuse to turn down. That's exactly what happened. Was Bostons offer better - probably. I actually think that it just sucked less than the Pitt offer, and that provided the hole that the weasels ran thru. They never should have been given that opportunity- IMO. I said he should of went in initally with an offer they couldn't publicly walk away from without humiliation  - he didn't and got torched. Everything beyond that is just an opinion and without any factual basis, because it's hypothetical - and that goes both ways.

     



    And you still don't get what actually happened. 

     

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Bookboy007's comment:

    Oooooohhh, sorry dez.  The correct answer was "actual moron...actual moron...yeah".

    In all the back and forth about hypothetical offers and whatnot, it occurs to me that I have no idea why any NHL general manager would accept the deal they got for Iginla with a week to go before the deadline.  Fleeceder was not obligated to send Iginla anywhere that day, and the only pressure I see from Shero would be that he might go make another move that would mean the pick was no longer available.  But I have to think Shero would also rather have Iginla than whatever his plan B might have been (Jagr?).




    That's a great question.  It seems too simplistic that Feaster is just simply that dumb.  I really think his position was hopelessly reduced, and compromised by his superiors, and he just wanted rid of a problem, that moving forward was only going to get wierder for him personally.

    If he hadn't  already made a deal and promised the goods...yeah, hold off.  Another reasonable option is the fact that Iginla started playing hardball by threatening to stay.  Since we know now, he's being shipped out because the team is done with him, as opposed to granting an opportunity, that changes the beans.  Many thought there was great potential Jerome would sign with Calgary after his little fling, but that appears to be a joke.  Probably no love lost between Iginla and the Flames.

    Perhaps most importantly, Feaster had a sudden, huge credibility issue to deal with.  After agreeing to a deal, and advising all parties, he was forced to do the unthinkable.   That would have compounded tenfold, by going back to them and saying, "I lied about the timetable too.  I guess you'll have to wait another week."

    Everything can easily be summed up...sealed away and put to bed with the simple assumption that Feaster is an idiot.  That's almost certainly true to a point, but nowhere near the whole story.

    The 3 pressers speak volumes.  If it were all Feasters shenanigans and incompetence, PC woulda never went to such extremes to protect him.  He certainly wouldn't have been a loose canon, but he would have simply stated "we were told we had a deal, then they reneged".    If he got screwed over by Feaster(and he would have known that), it was clueless to not just point out the facts, and let everyone else run with it.  PC isn't clueless.  The flames never disputed anything coming from the B's camp, and it's a sure bet that anything even slightly debatable would have been leveraged from Calgary's end.

    The only thing that makes zero sense, is that Iginla looked over the deals, and management allowed him to make the call....and that's where some here get sideways.  That's just too stupid to even consider.  Nothing more than plain old propoganda.  It couldn't possibly have hapenned that way....but it did deflect some things over to Iginla.  He didn't examine the trades and make a decision which one was the best....or good enough.  He merely excercised the legality(which was never dealt with) of choosing exactly where he ended up.  When pushed, the Calgary management group even basically admitted that in subsequent interviews.  Iginla agreed to go to 4 teams, but never signed off "legally".  When informed where he was going, he hid behind the legality and pronounced Pittsburgh or nowhere.

    With Bowmeister(spelling) being the big fish, and that organisations credibility on the line, they were probably wise to get rid of the problem.  It's not like they were going to land much back anyway.  If this thing had not gone so public....if they hadn't given the Bruins their word...I don't think there's any question they would've waited.  

     

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: PC Presser

     


    Nite

     

    Holy Sh1t ...I never said "increase" the offer- never

    For the last time - I'm sayin that If you want Jarome Iginla and you're going up against Pitt which is where everyone should have expected him to prefer, especially the GM who gets paid the big bucks to deal with this kind of tricky high level negotiations ...you don't go in with Matt Bartkowski and a prospect because that is just too easy to have another offer in the same ballpark that would give the Flames and Iginla a publicly reasonable excuse to turn down. That's exactly what happened. Was Bostons offer better - probably. I actually think that it just sucked less than the Pitt offer, and that provided the hole that the weasels ran thru. They never should have been given that opportunity- IMO. I said he should of went in initally with an offer they couldn't publicly walk away from without humiliation  - he didn't and got torched. Everything beyond that is just an opinion and without any factual basis, because it's hypothetical - and that goes both ways.

    [/QUOTE]


    So when you want something on ebay - and you want it bad, you put in the highest offer you can so that you know you won't be outbid?

    But this isn't ebay and it didn't happen like that.

    FACT: They negotiated for 2 weeks 

    FACT: PC and JF negotiated for 2 weeks - and JF accepted what they negotiated.

    You saying there should have been no negotiation - that PC should have made an initial offer that JF couldn't refuse?  

    Then that's like the ebay example I gave and if you do business like that you are out of money in a hurry or if you're a gm you're giving away assets unnecessarily.

    re: "an offer in the same ballpark"

    actually, the offers aren't in the same ballpark.  They are really not.  I played last night and one of the guys played for Northeastern and had about the same numbers as the Yale kid.  He was never invited to camp, his career ended with college.  The same could easily happen with the Yale kid.

    The world is LOADED with college players like that.  Look at Mark Fidler who played for BU and compare him to these prospects - or Vic Stanfield - Fred Stanfield's brother who also played for BU.

    "Prospects" in the true sense of guys who haven't achieved a pro contract and "prospects" in the sense of guys who actually have a pro contract - WORLD OF DIFFERENCE.

     

    WORLD OF DIFFERENCE

    A guy who plays pickup hockey with BadHab on Friday nights

    and 

    A guy who has played regularly in the AHL and has seen NHL games

    WORLD OF DIFFERENCE

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: PC Presser

     


    Nite

     

    Holy Sh1t ...

    For the last time - I'm sayin that If you want Jarome Iginla and you're going up against Pitt which is where everyone should have expected him to prefer, especially the GM who gets paid the big bucks to deal with this kind of tricky high level negotiations ...you don't go in with Matt Bartkowski and a prospect because that is just too easy to have another offer in the same ballpark that would give the Flames and Iginla a publicly reasonable excuse to turn down. That's exactly what happened. Was Bostons offer better - probably. I actually think that it just sucked less than the Pitt offer, and that provided the hole that the weasels ran thru. They never should have been given that opportunity- IMO. I said he should of went in initally with an offer they couldn't publicly walk away from without humiliation  - he didn't and got torched. Everything beyond that is just an opinion and without any factual basis, because it's hypothetical - and that goes both ways.

    [/QUOTE]


    I'm pretty much done here johnny w...in fact i'd like to swear off on this one, but you just keep coming back with stuff that screams for a response.  You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you keep bringing things up that shoot holes in it.

    You're the only one trying to protect your views with the hypothetical.  It's already been established that Iginla turned down the trade, not Feaster.  In order for your opinion to hold any water, one must believe that Jerome Iginla would have been motivated to choose Boston if the Flames got better players in return.  Jimmy the Greek couldn't  assign odds to a possibility so low.

    Now you talk about the "embarassement" factor.  Again...illogical reasoning.  There are several ways Calgary could have avoided embarrasement, and to think the best way is to throw that back in Bostons court is ridiculous.  The most obvious choice to have avoided humiliation, would have been to have Iginla sign off on the teams.  No chance at a problem if the legalities are covered.  Your theory of a stronger offering only drives up the possibility of "more" humiliation.

    In virtually every trade scenario, there are losers.  In almost every single case,  the details don't come out.  The reason this got so public had zero to do with the "pieces".  The reason it didn't happen, had zero to do with the pieces.  It was solely the result of some omitted paperwork.  That is unquestionably the #1 reason this didn't happen.  Your theory wouldn't crack the top 100.  

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:

     

    actually, the offers aren't in the same ballpark.  They are really not.  I played last night and one of the guys played for Northeastern and had about the same numbers as the Yale kid.  He was never invited to camp, his career ended with college.  The same could easily happen with the Yale kid.

     (snip)

    WORLD OF DIFFERENCE

    A guy who plays pickup hockey with BadHab on Friday nights

    and 

    A guy who has played regularly in the AHL and has seen NHL games

    WORLD OF DIFFERENCE



    This is why I come here. 

    Bhab, honestly, you're the best.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to stevegm's comment:

     


    Nite

     

    Holy Sh1t ...

    For the last time - I'm sayin that If you want Jarome Iginla and you're going up against Pitt which is where everyone should have expected him to prefer, especially the GM who gets paid the big bucks to deal with this kind of tricky high level negotiations ...you don't go in with Matt Bartkowski and a prospect because that is just too easy to have another offer in the same ballpark that would give the Flames and Iginla a publicly reasonable excuse to turn down. That's exactly what happened. Was Bostons offer better - probably. I actually think that it just sucked less than the Pitt offer, and that provided the hole that the weasels ran thru. They never should have been given that opportunity- IMO. I said he should of went in initally with an offer they couldn't publicly walk away from without humiliation  - he didn't and got torched. Everything beyond that is just an opinion and without any factual basis, because it's hypothetical - and that goes both ways.




    I'm pretty much done here johnny w...in fact i'd like to swear off on this one, but you just keep coming back with stuff that screams for a response.  You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but you keep bringing things up that shoot holes in it.

    You're the only one trying to protect your views with the hypothetical.  It's already been established that Iginla turned down the trade, not Feaster.  In order for your opinion to hold any water, one must believe that Jerome Iginla would have been motivated to choose Boston if the Flames got better players in return.  Jimmy the Greek couldn't  assign odds to a possibility so low.

    Now you talk about the "embarassement" factor.  Again...illogical reasoning.  There are several ways Calgary could have avoided embarrasement, and to think the best way is to throw that back in Bostons court is ridiculous.  The most obvious choice to have avoided humiliation, would have been to have Iginla sign off on the teams.  No chance at a problem if the legalities are covered.  Your theory of a stronger offering only drives up the possibility of "more" humiliation.

    In virtually every trade scenario, there are losers.  In almost every single case,  the details don't come out.  The reason this got so public had zero to do with the "pieces".  The reason it didn't happen, had zero to do with the pieces.  It was solely the result of some omitted paperwork.  That is unquestionably the #1 reason this didn't happen.  Your theory wouldn't crack the top 100.  

    [/QUOTE]

    not exactly what he's saying, he contends that the offer should have been stronger - so strong "it couldn't have been turned down"

    but that's only with hindsight that you can say that because the offer was accepted.

    and he also doesn't accept that there is an enormous difference in the trade packages.

    The offers ARE NOT IN THE SAME BALLPARK.  The Penguins offer 2 guys who may never play professional hockey at any level and the Bruins offered 2 guys who are playing professional hockey.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

     



    This is why I come here. 

     

    Bhab, honestly, you're the best.




    Overly dramatic, but it's a valid point.  

    I could fill pages upon pages with draft picks who never play in the AHL or ECHL.

    And contrary to what Jwensink thinks, a roster AHL player is significantly more valuable than second round plus draft picks.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    All nighter I see LOL.

    Iginla was going to Pittsburgh no matter what !!!! 

    Bruins make better offer ,  Pens would have made better offer.  i.e. Bruins sweeten the deal and add Krejci ; Pens add Kennedy.   

    This is what happened ,  what would have happened.

    p.s. Krejci is much > than Kennedy but that's the formula Feaster and Pens were working on.

     

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    OK, I give ... you high hockey IQ types are too much for me...You're right ...I don't know how Calgary could have possibly walked away from a deal that had Matt Bartkowski in it.

    The F'ng guy is a stud, and will help their blueline for yrs to come, What was I thinking of ??? Oh yeah ...and he's played in the AHL before, and has been called up to the NHL when half the teams roster was in the E.R. and there was nobody left who didn't suck worse. Maybe PC should call around to the other teams GM's before the deadline and tell them Bartkowski is going up on the block. Hey Iginla isn't coming but at least we didn't give up the future. Either that or the thought that a prospect just might turn out to be something instead of somebody who we KNOW sucks is better...nah that would mean criticizing our dear GM who just got punked into resigning a guy he doesn't even want in Boston. Yes. it was all Iginla and there is nothing PC could have done differently. I mean look at what happened ...they turned down Matt Bartkowski who has played at the professional level, just like Trent Whitfield and Byron Bitz.

    Some guys are super duper smart and write some real nice fancy things with paragraphs and everything spreading their supreme knowledge around from on high - yay !!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    OK, I give ... you high hockey IQ types are too much for me...You're right ...I don't know how Calgary could have possibly walked away from a deal that had Matt Bartkowski in it.

    The F'ng guy is a stud, and will help their blueline for yrs to come, What was I thinking of ??? Oh yeah ...and he's played in the AHL before, and has been called up to the NHL when half the teams roster was in the E.R. and there was nobody left who didn't suck worse. Maybe PC should call around to the other teams GM's before the deadline and tell them Bartkowski is going up on the block. Hey Iginla isn't coming but at least we didn't give up the future. Either that or the thought that a prospect just might turn out to be something instead of somebody who we KNOW sucks is better...nah that would mean criticizing our dear GM who just got punked into resigning a guy he doesn't even want in Boston. Yes. it was all Iginla and there is nothing PC could have done differently. I mean look at what happened ...they turned down Matt Bartkowski who has played at the professional level, just like Trent Whitfield and Byron Bitz.

    Some guys are super duper smart and write some real nice fancy things with paragraphs and everything spreading their supreme knowledge around from on high - yay !!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

     



    That's not the point at all.

    As a responsbile GM would you are telling me you would rather have NOBODY over Bartkowski?

    You would rather have your team skate with 5 d rather than have Bartkowski in the line up?

    Because that's the way this deal could EASILY shake out for Calgary - they get NOBODY and the 1st round pick, vs. Koko - who will play in the NHL virtually a lock. Bartkowski - a fill in defenseman and a first.

    And you're going to tell me these 2 offers are "in the ballpark"?  Not even close.

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: PC Presser

    In response to JWensink's comment:

    OK, I give ... you high hockey IQ types are too much for me...You're right ...I don't know how Calgary could have possibly walked away from a deal that had Matt Bartkowski in it.

    The F'ng guy is a stud, and will help their blueline for yrs to come, What was I thinking of ??? Oh yeah ...and he's played in the AHL before, and has been called up to the NHL when half the teams roster was in the E.R. and there was nobody left who didn't suck worse. Maybe PC should call around to the other teams GM's before the deadline and tell them Bartkowski is going up on the block. Hey Iginla isn't coming but at least we didn't give up the future. Either that or the thought that a prospect just might turn out to be something instead of somebody who we KNOW sucks is better...nah that would mean criticizing our dear GM who just got punked into resigning a guy he doesn't even want in Boston. Yes. it was all Iginla and there is nothing PC could have done differently. I mean look at what happened ...they turned down Matt Bartkowski who has played at the professional level, just like Trent Whitfield and Byron Bitz.

    Some guys are super duper smart and write some real nice fancy things with paragraphs and everything spreading their supreme knowledge around from on high - yay !!!!!!!!!!!!!

     

     



    And don't forget we know what a NTC is.

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: PC Presser

    Bartkowski's first year in Providence he was a -17, he's improved that to where he's even and his numbers have been going up.  He's only had 11 games, the jury is still out on Bartkowski.  Bartkowski is just 24 and defenseman take longer to develop.

    Trent Whitfield is 35 years old you know.  He became Bruins property only in 2009-10.  Yes, that is a player who clearly sucks and has no time left to show potential.

    Byron Bitz - and Craig Weller got us Seidenberg and Bartkowski.  If they can again flip Bartkowski for the same sort of thing I'd be happy with that.

     

    But hey, why take my word for any of this?

    An NHL GM did in fact accept the offer for Bartkowski, Koko and a first. 

    No matter what you or I think of Batkowski, Feaster said he wanted him.

     

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