Seguin at the dot

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    Good work marco.  Now find the thread after we watched him in the AHL and at the time of the trade.  I specifically supported trading him for whatever defensive piece was needed for the Cup run.  I was all for the Colborne for Kaberle trade and posted about it many times (which I'm sure you found)

    I'm not sure why you posted analysis of the Kessel trade right after it happened, but I'm a-okay with those comments.  Out with Kessel, in with Horton, Chara resigning, Seguin, picks, and the CUP.  Still love that trade.

    Couldn't find 'the bet' with Stanley in all that digging?

    Which account were you using when we had these discussions?  It would be easier to find your comments if we knew -- bruins8?  winthecup? stanjon? the other marco?  But don't worry, I wouldn't even bother looking them up.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    I just read an article on ESPN Boston where Ruff said Seguin is staying at center. Ruff wants to ride through the speed bumps with the faceoff woes and sees it being his best fit. Something tells me Ruff won't be putting him out there on defensive zone faceoffs, even though Seguin isn't really a threat at in-zone play, and probably scores about 80% of his goals on the rush. It's a shame the kid just doesn't want to work hard on the finer tunings of the game.

     
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  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    In response to TheGuyWithDaThing's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    I just read an article on ESPN Boston where Ruff said Seguin is staying at center. Ruff wants to ride through the speed bumps with the faceoff woes and sees it being his best fit. Something tells me Ruff won't be putting him out there on defensive zone faceoffs, even though Seguin isn't really a threat at in-zone play, and probably scores about 80% of his goals on the rush. It's a shame the kid just doesn't want to work hard on the finer tunings of the game.

    [/QUOTE]


    This is what had me most disappointed in all of this.  Through a lot of stuff released to the media, I was led to believe that he was hard working and had his head square on his shoulders.  The bio steel training camp videos, that he bought a used land rover for his first car.

    Then out comes stories like this confirming he drives a Maserati and shops at the expensive places

    http://www.examiner.com/article/tyler-seguin-featured-on-the-cover-of-the-improper-bostonian

    Very disappointed.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    [/QUOTE]

    You see there's the difference between you and I. I simply would have said sorry and yes I did think colborne was would become a good player instead you turn it around you ask me to find something and I did. These sre only forums in which are egos  play a huge part.  I also noticed that some posters would write their opinions and you would attack them label them. For a guy who seemingly is educated that's unacceptable not the bruins record like Stanley said .it is really forum bullying cuz I guarsntee you thst If you didn't have your colleagues you would not be as arrogant and quick to judge.

    [/QUOTE]

    I don't know what kind of man feels "bullied" on an internet message board but I'm getting an idea.  No one is going to hurt you marco, but if you don't like them laughing at your posts, then make your posts a little smarter.

    Here's the deal with Colborne, and like with many prospects I definitely went back and forth on this guy some before I got to see him play pro hockey.

    When he got drafted I liked it.  Big, raw, good skater, maybe slipped under the radar.

    When he showed up at DU I was disappointed.  Really skinny, didn't play physical.  Not that good.

    In his final year at DU I was much more impressed.  He put on a ton of weight, became a point per game player in the NCAA/WCHA.  Looked like a real good prospect.

    Went to rookie camp.  Looked good.  Read good things about him.  Still a perimeter player, but looked a little Thornton-ish.  Good hands good passing.  My hopes probably peaked here.

    Played in the AHL and looked pretty mediocre.  Seemed to go back to being more of a perimeter player than he was in his last year of college.  Still liked him but not sure what he'd become.

    Early Spring 2011, was just fine with him being traded for a rental in Kaberle, who might help them win the Cup.  Seemed like more and more of a marginal NHL player.

     

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    Any subject involving Kessel. Thorton, or Seguin seems to bring on a donnybrook here.  Thortons a probable HOFer.  If 81 keeps pacing til he's mid. 30's, he will too.  To early to tell about Seguin.  Personally, my opinion is that he's the most useless of the 3.  Just my opinion.  Anyway, it doesn't matter if he scores 900 goals by the time he's done.  If the Bruins stay in the leagues top 5 or 6 over the next few years.

    I'm surprised and disappointed how some of the regulars get their panties in such a knot over these discussions.  Many slot these 3 players in the same hole when they shouldn't.  Sure they were all gifted offensively, but there were different scenario's surrounding their move.  IMO, Kessel wasn't really traded.  The notion PC took Burke to school is nonsense.  The Bruins didn't really want to move Kessell.  They lost the hammer with an RFA, and Burke forced PC's hand.  The loss of 81, without an immediate replacement hurt the B's bigtime the following year.  I think that's pretty obvious, but many will argue.

    Management screwed up in their assessment of Thortons leadership qualities, and that pretty much punched his ticket out of town.  Lots of great players aren't captain material, (Orr is one example)and shouldn't be harshly judged because they just want to play the game, and not have to deal with all the jerks in the media, as well as assorted other consulate responsibilities. 

    Never been a big fan of Seguin, and have had lots to say about his pond skills.  I think Cherry would consider him like Kent Nillson(spell/), the best practice player in the league.  The B's invested heavily in him though(promotionally), and must have felt the need to smear him somewhat to validate themselves before trading him.  I don't like that at all.  Most here bought it.  Had they planned on keeping him, they were well within their right to publicly try and shake him up. Going public a few days before he was dealt...., is bush   I really like PC, so I prefer to think the deal came together after he made those comments.

    I understand those who may think the Bruins have some kind of disdain for high end offensive players.  It doesn't seem to be one-way players, because there are plenty of one-way darlings on the team.  Those with a great defensive game, but no ability to put the puck in the net.

    I get that some people will think that way.

    But what throws that logic right out the window, is just a teensy bit of elementary curiosity.  In reality, the Bruins DO score.  They're always in the upper echelon of the league, in fact CJ's bruins have been near the top of the league on occasion.  They're always going for top spot defensively, and although you can't win 0-0 games, knowledgable hockey people understand the importance of tight team defense.

    The B's teambuilding strategy is working.  That's indisputable.  They progressed competitively post Joe Thorton as well as post Phil Kessell.  The only justification for any belly-aching would be if they regressed.

    I'm glad Kessel and Thorton are doing well.  Like Ray Bourque, I'll be happy if they both win a cup some day, as long as they don't beat the Bruins in doing that.  I hope Seguin does well.

    The inability to at least be somewhat objective about those 3 former Bruins, does not make one a bigger, better, smarter Boston Bruin fan.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    In response to marco0863's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     


    You see there's the difference between you and I. I simply would have said sorry.



    Go ahead.  You were wrong in 2011 and you were wrong about the bet.  Two apologies for you.  I will accept them graciously.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    dez supported trading Colborne too.  He deserves an apology from marco.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Any subject involving Kessel. Thorton, or Seguin seems to bring on a donnybrook here.  Thortons a probable HOFer.  If 81 keeps pacing til he's mid. 30's, he will too.  To early to tell about Seguin.  Personally, my opinion is that he's the most useless of the 3.  Just my opinion.  Anyway, it doesn't matter if he scores 900 goals by the time he's done.  If the Bruins stay in the leagues top 5 or 6 over the next few years.

    I'm surprised and disappointed how some of the regulars get their panties in such a knot over these discussions.  Many slot these 3 players in the same hole when they shouldn't.  Sure they were all gifted offensively, but there were different scenario's surrounding their move.  IMO, Kessel wasn't really traded.  The notion PC took Burke to school is nonsense.  The Bruins didn't really want to move Kessell.  They lost the hammer with an RFA, and Burke forced PC's hand.  The loss of 81, without an immediate replacement hurt the B's bigtime the following year.  I think that's pretty obvious, but many will argue.

    Management screwed up in their assessment of Thortons leadership qualities, and that pretty much punched his ticket out of town.  Lots of great players aren't captain material, (Orr is one example)and shouldn't be harshly judged because they just want to play the game, and not have to deal with all the jerks in the media, as well as assorted other consulate responsibilities. 

    Never been a big fan of Seguin, and have had lots to say about his pond skills.  I think Cherry would consider him like Kent Nillson(spell/), the best practice player in the league.  The B's invested heavily in him though(promotionally), and must have felt the need to smear him somewhat to validate themselves before trading him.  I don't like that at all.  Most here bought it.  Had they planned on keeping him, they were well within their right to publicly try and shake him up. Going public a few days before he was dealt...., is bush   I really like PC, so I prefer to think the deal came together after he made those comments.

    I understand those who may think the Bruins have some kind of disdain for high end offensive players.  It doesn't seem to be one-way players, because there are plenty of one-way darlings on the team.  Those with a great defensive game, but no ability to put the puck in the net.

    I get that some people will think that way.

    But what throws that logic right out the window, is just a teensy bit of elementary curiosity.  In reality, the Bruins DO score.  They're always in the upper echelon of the league, in fact CJ's bruins have been near the top of the league on occasion.  They're always going for top spot defensively, and although you can't win 0-0 games, knowledgable hockey people understand the importance of tight team defense.

    The B's teambuilding strategy is working.  That's indisputable.  They progressed competitively post Joe Thorton as well as post Phil Kessell.  The only justification for any belly-aching would be if they regressed.

    I'm glad Kessel and Thorton are doing well.  Like Ray Bourque, I'll be happy if they both win a cup some day, as long as they don't beat the Bruins in doing that.  I hope Seguin does well.

    The inability to at least be somewhat objective about those 3 former Bruins, does not make one a bigger, better, smarter Boston Bruin fan.

    [/QUOTE]

    Good post.

     
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  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    Not much of an apology.

     
  13. This post has been removed.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

     

    SteveGM - re: Thornton.  Don't forget that Thornton was in a scoring slump when they traded him.  And it was pretty clear that MOC thought it wasn't just a slump, but that Thornton's career was going into a nose dive.  That's why the trade happened so fast, they thought he was damaged goods and wanted to unload him as fast as possible.  This was another massive oversight of the MOC management team.

     

    IMO no player is untradeable, every player has a price where trading him is worth doing. 

     

    Another point that seems to be lost on people here is where your club is at relative to these young players.  You can build around them and take time if you are not a cup contender.  If you are a cup contender you need playoff studs NOW.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from Davinator. Show Davinator's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    It's cute the way you two keep congratulating each other.  

    "You know when we got  jagr I said to my friends he would not score a goal in the playoffs"

    No offense, but there's a few things in that sentence I'm not buying...

    Kitch, didn't you make a few predictions during the Toronto series?  Wanna talk about those?

    Seguin is still fun to watch and I wish him the best (not tomorrow though).  That said, noticing that Dallas made the same controversial move to put him on the wing, a month into the season, is worth noting.  It isn't riping him at all.  Just reminding the nellies here that screaming for him to play center might not have made sense.

    [/QUOTE]


    I guess Claude was correct to leave him at wing after all.

    He probably saw him taking faceoffs in practice and tried working with him to improve, but Seguin hadn't improved enough to make the switch for the odd game.

    Too bad -  I wish him success in Dallas but hope he doesn't bite the Bruins in the @zz.

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    In response to stevegm's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Any subject involving Kessel. Thorton, or Seguin seems to bring on a donnybrook here.  Thortons a probable HOFer.  If 81 keeps pacing til he's mid. 30's, he will too.  To early to tell about Seguin.  Personally, my opinion is that he's the most useless of the 3.  Just my opinion.  Anyway, it doesn't matter if he scores 900 goals by the time he's done.  If the Bruins stay in the leagues top 5 or 6 over the next few years.

    I'm surprised and disappointed how some of the regulars get their panties in such a knot over these discussions.  Many slot these 3 players in the same hole when they shouldn't.  Sure they were all gifted offensively, but there were different scenario's surrounding their move.  IMO, Kessel wasn't really traded.  The notion PC took Burke to school is nonsense.  The Bruins didn't really want to move Kessell.  They lost the hammer with an RFA, and Burke forced PC's hand.  The loss of 81, without an immediate replacement hurt the B's bigtime the following year.  I think that's pretty obvious, but many will argue.

    Management screwed up in their assessment of Thortons leadership qualities, and that pretty much punched his ticket out of town.  Lots of great players aren't captain material, (Orr is one example)and shouldn't be harshly judged because they just want to play the game, and not have to deal with all the jerks in the media, as well as assorted other consulate responsibilities. 

    Never been a big fan of Seguin, and have had lots to say about his pond skills.  I think Cherry would consider him like Kent Nillson(spell/), the best practice player in the league.  The B's invested heavily in him though(promotionally), and must have felt the need to smear him somewhat to validate themselves before trading him.  I don't like that at all.  Most here bought it.  Had they planned on keeping him, they were well within their right to publicly try and shake him up. Going public a few days before he was dealt...., is bush   I really like PC, so I prefer to think the deal came together after he made those comments.

    I understand those who may think the Bruins have some kind of disdain for high end offensive players.  It doesn't seem to be one-way players, because there are plenty of one-way darlings on the team.  Those with a great defensive game, but no ability to put the puck in the net.

    I get that some people will think that way.

    But what throws that logic right out the window, is just a teensy bit of elementary curiosity.  In reality, the Bruins DO score.  They're always in the upper echelon of the league, in fact CJ's bruins have been near the top of the league on occasion.  They're always going for top spot defensively, and although you can't win 0-0 games, knowledgable hockey people understand the importance of tight team defense.

    The B's teambuilding strategy is working.  That's indisputable.  They progressed competitively post Joe Thorton as well as post Phil Kessell.  The only justification for any belly-aching would be if they regressed.

    I'm glad Kessel and Thorton are doing well.  Like Ray Bourque, I'll be happy if they both win a cup some day, as long as they don't beat the Bruins in doing that.  I hope Seguin does well.

    The inability to at least be somewhat objective about those 3 former Bruins, does not make one a bigger, better, smarter Boston Bruin fan.

    [/QUOTE]

     One of the best post EVER! Steve ya gotta be a Maritmer bud! Good stuff!! Wink

    Hey NAS put that in your pie hole & smoke it eh! You New England bast ard! PWWWTTT! 

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from 50belowzero. Show 50belowzero's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    In response to BadHabitude's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    SteveGM - re: Thornton.  Don't forget that Thornton was in a scoring slump when they traded him.  And it was pretty clear that MOC thought it wasn't just a slump, but that Thornton's career was going into a nose dive.  That's why the trade happened so fast, they thought he was damaged goods and wanted to unload him as fast as possible.  This was another massive oversight of the MOC management team.

     

    IMO no player is untradeable, every player has a price where trading him is worth doing. 

     

    Another point that seems to be lost on people here is where your club is at relative to these young players.  You can build around them and take time if you are not a cup contender.  If you are a cup contender you need playoff studs NOW.

    [/QUOTE]

    I think the "no movement" clause in his contract extension kicked in as well precipitating the get him out of town now move.

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    "The B's teambuilding strategy is working.  That's indisputable.  They progressed competitively post Joe Thorton as well as post Phil Kessell.  The only justification for any belly-aching would be if they regressed."

    ^This could be a blanket response to half of the threads on the board.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from red75. Show red75's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    A question a bit more on topic, aimed at those posters here who spent a lot of time on the dot. Playing D the only faceoffs I've ever really taken were in shinny and it's not a skill I've worked on.  Given Seguin's skillset - hands, speed, coordination - what's he lacking that could be a factor in his low percentage? Ability to anticipate the drop? Or is it a style thing - not having the mechanics down? Physical strength for battling the other stick? What, given Seguin's other abilities would be an explanation for his weakness on faceoffs?

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    In response to NeelyOrrBourque's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    Hey NAS put that in your pie hole & smoke it eh! You New England bast ard! PWWWTTT! 

    [/QUOTE]

    How am I involved with that?

    Freakin' goalies.

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    In response to red75's comment:
    [QUOTE]

    A question a bit more on topic, aimed at those posters here who spent a lot of time on the dot. Playing D the only faceoffs I've ever really taken were in shinny and it's not a skill I've worked on.  Given Seguin's skillset - hands, speed, coordination - what's he lacking that could be a factor in his low percentage? Ability to anticipate the drop? Or is it a style thing - not having the mechanics down? Physical strength for battling the other stick? What, given Seguin's other abilities would be an explanation for his weakness on faceoffs?

    [/QUOTE]

    Played mostly wing but some center, and I can't figure it out.  I had a hard time figuring out why I won and lost faceoffs, to be honest.  One night you go 12-1 and the next night you go 1-12 and you could swear you're doing the exact same thing.  

    I always thought that younger players have a harder time, but I don't know if that is backed up with statistics.  With experience I think you get used to how the ref will drop the puck, what your oppenent is going to try, your timing is better, etc. etc.  I think the refs let the veteran players cheat a little more too, consciously or not.  With Seguin, I think it was a combination of not being that strong, that experienced, and I agree with Wensink's 'compete level' issue as well.  Bergeron gets so low and is so aggressive, he looks like he might win it with his face.  Seguin looked like he just wanted to pull it back with quickness.

    Anyhow, those are some largely uninformed and un-reserached reactions to a question that should probably be answered by someone with more expertise...

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:
    [QUOTE]

     

    Played mostly wing but some center, and I can't figure it out.  I had a hard time figuring out why I won and lost faceoffs, to be honest.  One night you go 12-1 and the next night you go 1-12 and you could swear you're doing the exact same thing.  

    I always thought that younger players have a harder time, but I don't know if that is backed up with statistics.  With experience I think you get used to how the ref will drop the puck, what your oppenent is going to try, your timing is better, etc. etc.  I think the refs let the veteran players cheat a little more too, consciously or not.  With Seguin, I think it was a combination of not being that strong, that experienced, and I agree with Wensink's 'compete level' issue as well.  Bergeron gets so low and is so aggressive, he looks like he might win it with his face.  Seguin looked like he just wanted to pull it back with quickness.

    Anyhow, those are some largely uninformed and un-reserached reactions to a question that should probably be answered by someone with more expertise...

    [/QUOTE]

    Stength - look at those biosteel videos, look at the kid's physique - he certainly looks strong.  It's awful hard to look strong and not be strong.

    The 'compete level', if that means not putting some extra time in at practices taking face offs, then I believe it. 

    But I'm still mystified by it.  In loose puck situations where it's stick on stick, Tyler is very good at those situations.

    How can those skills not transfer to taking face offs?

    On natural talent alone he should be able to win some reasonable number, like 20% of them or something.  But only 1 out of 14 is Shawn Thornton awful.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    That 1-for-14 was one game.  That happens sometimes.

    His total FO% is 37%.  Which is still bad, but not ST bad.

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

    The hard work thing also comes in in terms of knowing your opponent, knowing the situation and anticipating what they want to do.  I think Seguin thinks it's all about the skills.  You can be cobra quick and still lose to a slower but smarter mongoose.

    As for Joe-PhilTy Thorkesguin.  I agree that each situation is unique.  The only cause to lump them together is ex-girlfriend syndrome.  In each case, they were high skill high draft picks with a lot - A LOT - of pub.  Probably fair to say that each was the most skilled forward on the team at the time of his trade. 

    I was surprisingly relieved that JT was dealt.  His game drives me mad.  Joe, you're 6'4" 220 with the balance and hands to take the puck to the net regularly.  Instead, you skate to the half-wall or the 'office' behind the net and look for someone else to go to the dirty area.  Sweet, feathery passes are not enough when everyone in the building knows you're looking to pass.  Perfect example of how "building around" the wrong guy no matter how skilled can kill you.  Kessel was also driving me nuts the year before he was dealt - looked like he had no hockey sense.  Looked like he was going to go the Russ Courtnall route - blazing speed, good shot, no sense.  He was better his last year, but still a craps shoot.  If he played the system, he looked better than when he tried to go on skills alone.  But I still totally supported PCs priorities: lock down DK, then get Kessel.  Kessel wanted big cash and to be the guy.  Bye.  Seguin, last year, was as frustrating as Kessel his second last year.  So much wasted effort, so much lack of compete.  Pond skills is a good way to capture it.  The lesson of the Thornton deal seems important here - freeing resources is as important as what you get in return.

    Can't really judge the Seguin deal for a few months.  Eriksson could struggle, they could find themselves lower in the playoff seeding, lower in GF and GA.  We'll see, I guess, but the idea that there's a real pattern here is pretty limited.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from NeelyOrrBourque. Show NeelyOrrBourque's posts

    Re: Seguin at the dot

     

    [/QUOTE]

    How am I involved with that?

    Freakin' goalies.

    [/QUOTE]

    Just bustin your chops...& stirrin the pot. You & Steve have had some battles & I was just havin some fun. 

     

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