SI's top ten power forwards of all time

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from G4ck5. Show G4ck5's posts

    Re: SI's top ten power forwards of all time

    In response to dannycater's comment:

    John Le Rocket Wensink, 30 goals....I don't buy the premise anymore. Neely was in a class by himself. There was a fear factor about Neely (they keep throwing Lucic into that, but I don't think players really fear Milan, and that's not to say Milan isn't a very good fighter and power checker). There was one power forward. His name was Cam Neely.



    I pretty sure he was voted by his fellow NHL players as one of the most scariest players to play against last year, and over 85% of them said they wouldn't fight him because he is so strong and an animal.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from JWensink. Show JWensink's posts

    Re: SI's top ten power forwards of all time

    Lucic def belongs. We might not fully appreciate what he brings as B's fans, because there is nobody like him that we face. Just imagine Lucic in a Habs, Flyers or Leafs jersey terrorizing the Bruins. He is that nasty and that much of a nightmare for everyone else. The guy is a category all by himself. Thank god he's in Boston.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: SI's top ten power forwards of all time

    The parameters were pretty clear if you read the intro - he makes a distinction between "powerful" forwards - guys who played a power game like Messier or Howe or LeClair - and "power forward".  The power forward is a guy who can change the game with a fight, a hit, or a goal with almost equal effectiveness.  That's not LeClair, it sure wasn't Kerr (his back wouldn't take it), and while Verbeek is every bit the same as Clark, the difference (I think) is weight class.  Look at who he fought the years he fought a lot (and incidentally, he only fought 4 or more times in a season three times in his career) - Sylvain Turgeon?  Joe Mullen?  Don Sweeney?  Alex Mogilny?  Esa Tikkanen?  Not heavyweights.  He fought a few bouts with guys like Ryan Walter, who was capable and very strong, and Ladouceur, who was okay.  And he fought Scott Stevens, which I wouldn't do for all the tea in China.  Clark fought Probert. In 1986-87, he fought 29 times including bouts with Probert, Basil McRae, Kordic, Neil Sheehy (golden gloves winner, as I recall), Tiger Williams and Willi Plett.  And like Lucic, Clark hit hard.  Verbeek hit, and hit effectively, but often the damage he did was from the extra-curriculars and not the hit itself.

    Also important for Lucic's case - he almost never loses.  He fights guys like Orr and Rosehill less and less because he's a first line winger who will score 30 one of these seasons - and makes some pretty dynamic plays like the pass to Seguin today.  But he can go with anyone, and when he wins, is there a guy in the league whose fights are more energizing?

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: SI's top ten power forwards of all time

    If the parameters are so clear, they should have included era (like modern, only) and maybe mentioned things that some posters are just making up, like winning % in fights.

    Still if the parameters are hits, fights, and goals -- it makes it really hard to compare Lucic to long-time power forwards when he has less than 100 goals and less than 600  penalty minutes.  Really hard.

    Bill Guerin has over four times as many goals and twice as many fights for example.

    We can all get excited about the guy we watch every night (I do too), but 5 full seasons of work and less than 100 goals usually doesn't put you on a best-of-all-time list.  No matter what the parameters are.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: SI's top ten power forwards of all time

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    If the parameters are so clear, they should have included era (like modern, only) and maybe mentioned things that some posters are just making up, like winning % in fights.

    Still if the parameters are hits, fights, and goals -- it makes it really hard to compare Lucic to long-time power forwards when he has less than 100 goals and less than 600  penalty minutes.  Really hard.

    Bill Guerin has over four times as many goals and twice as many fights for example.

    We can all get excited about the guy we watch every night (I do too), but 5 full seasons of work and less than 100 goals usually doesn't put you on a best-of-all-time list.  No matter what the parameters are.



    People weren't too worried about Guerin on a night-to-night basis. 

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: SI's top ten power forwards of all time

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

    Still if the parameters are hits, fights, and goals -- it makes it really hard to compare Lucic to long-time power forwards when he has less than 100 goals and less than 600  penalty minutes.  Really hard.



    So, it will be easy when he scores six more goals and gets 18 more PIM? Really easy?

    C'mon, Fletch.  If he had 142 goals and 690 PIM, you'd probably say it's hard to compare him when he was less than 150 and 700. 

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: SI's top ten power forwards of all time

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    In response to Fletcher1's comment:

     

    If the parameters are so clear, they should have included era (like modern, only) and maybe mentioned things that some posters are just making up, like winning % in fights.

    Still if the parameters are hits, fights, and goals -- it makes it really hard to compare Lucic to long-time power forwards when he has less than 100 goals and less than 600  penalty minutes.  Really hard.

    Bill Guerin has over four times as many goals and twice as many fights for example.

    We can all get excited about the guy we watch every night (I do too), but 5 full seasons of work and less than 100 goals usually doesn't put you on a best-of-all-time list.  No matter what the parameters are.

     



    People weren't too worried about Guerin on a night-to-night basis. 

     



    Well they should have been worried about his scoring, particularly when he had a 40 goal season.

    I think we're at a difference-of-opinion impasse here.  No matter how much we like fighting and toughness, the ability to score goals still has to be the number one factor in rating all time best power forwards.

    I love Lucic and he may well be on this list some day, but for a guy who has only played 5 seasons, and averaged less than 20 goals per, it seems premature to me.  I would take Guerin's 300+ more goals over Lucic being more fearsome, but I get that this isn't my list and the guy can put whomever he wants on there.

    There are a lot of people pointing to Rask's early career statistics as being the best in the history of the NHL.  But even the homers here aren't going to put the guy on a best -of-all-time list until he does it for a lot longer.  That's my reaction to Lucic being on a best ever list after 5 years too.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: SI's top ten power forwards of all time

    Fletcher,

    How about leaving the stats behind and discussing the player?

    Guerin wasn't a feared player...ever.  Yeah, he'd go, but he wasn't a bad mother. 

    This isn't about the best goal scorers or top snipers.  It the combination of heavy hitting, fighting, fear and offesive production.  Guerin scored goals and got into some scraps.  Lucic does it all.

     

Share