So why was Tyler benched?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from CafardoSaysTradeBrady. Show CafardoSaysTradeBrady's posts

    So why was Tyler benched?

    Anyone know?

    There were long stretches last night that looked just like the long stretch of su.k that recently took place, yet Tyler sat unused for almost the entire 2nd and 3rd period.

    Sending a kid out once every 20 minutes is the best way to make sure he never gets a feel for the game and overthinks every move. Self-fulfilling sabotage from a coach who can not adjust his system to the skills he has available (unless you think his team's only skill is goaltending and luck. I disagree).

    Where's that link with the ice time again? 



     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?


    I get mine off of the box score section of ESPN.
    http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=301228020

    His development is stunted, that is for sure.  I focused on him preseason and he was improving by leaps and bounds.

    What's going on with Tyler, I have no idea.

    3 things are 100% sure in my mind.
    1) Only player publicly disciplined this year by being benched 2 games.
    2) He's not put in a position to use his speed, no passes to him on the move in the neutral zone.
    3) Virtually no pp time, IMO he is built for the PP.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    Idk whats going on with this its been going on all season. He should be on the PP thats for sure. Perhaps they want to stop him from reaching bonuses?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from CafardoSaysTradeBrady. Show CafardoSaysTradeBrady's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    In Response to Re: So why was Tyler benched?:
    [QUOTE]I get mine off of the box score section of ESPN. http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=301228020 His development is stunted, that is for sure.  I focused on him preseason and he was improving by leaps and bounds. What's going on with Tyler, I have no idea. 3 things are 100% sure in my mind. 1) Only player publicly disciplined this year by being benched 2 games. 2) He's not put in a position to use his speed, no passes to him on the move in the neutral zone. 3) Virtually no pp time, IMO he is built for the PP.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    ^^ This. All of it. 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from bandgbleeder. Show bandgbleeder's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    Actually Savard and Horton got sat for over seven minutes. Lucic and Seguin traded shifts with Recchi & Bergeron. Seguin played a little over a minute less than he normally does. And he's 12th in time on ice for rookie forwards.

    In Response to So why was Tyler benched?:
    [QUOTE]Anyone know? There were long stretches last night that looked just like the long stretch of su.k that recently took place, yet Tyler sat unused for almost the entire 2nd and 3rd period. Sending a kid out once every 20 minutes is the best way to make sure he never gets a feel for the game and overthinks every move. Self-fulfilling sabotage from a coach who can not adjust his system to the skills he has available (unless you think his team's only skill is goaltending and luck. I disagree). Where's that link with the ice time again? 
    Posted by CafardoSaysTradeBrady[/QUOTE]
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from SupportLocal81. Show SupportLocal81's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    Thinking that Claude is using him sparingly so that his team has the best chance to win (IMHO and obviously something that can be debated). He is caught in a catch 22 in that Tyler is going to be a terrific player but isn't there yet and that with the way the team has been playing.. needs to reduce the risks a bit.. Tyler, despite his upside, is still a liability on the ice... I understand that his development will suffer somewhat because of this and his ice time will probably increase as he gets more experience over the course of the year.  It's part of his learning curve as he gets acclimated to the NHL.
     

    Every survival kit should include a sense of humor. ~ Author Unknown
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    b&g - thanks for that.  The impact of "rookie romance" can be really nefarious.  And it is romance, no matter how much people want to deny it.  It's the same mental space people fall into when they cheat on their wives/girlfriends (husbands/boyfriends) - the thrill of the new outweighs more or less known quantities like what Ryder or Savard can deliver.

    If you look at these uber talented rookies from a coach's perspective, you have to think about winning games first, second, last, and always.  Pat Burns defended his handling of Joe Thornton by saying he had 17 other skaters working their butts off to get the team wins the only way that team could, and if he couldn't trust Thornton not to hurt the team when he was on the ice, he couldn't play him.  Scotty Bowman had a ratio of how many additional goals against/losses you could count on for each rookie in the lineup.

    Coaches are hired and fired on wins, not development.  Seguin has to earn his coach's trust if he's going to get the ice time people want him to get.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chappy28. Show Chappy28's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    What's really annoying is how his line especially does nothing but dump and chase.  He's probably the one guy on the team that you want carrying the puck with a full head of steam into the zone and time after time unless its a 2 on 1 they dump it in.  A complete waste of talent.

    If I was Julien, I'd give the kid the green light to take the defender one on one anytime he gets some space and guarentee it would produce more goals than it costs us
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from CafardoSaysTradeBrady. Show CafardoSaysTradeBrady's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    In Response to Re: So why was Tyler benched?:
    [QUOTE]b&g - thanks for that.  The impact of "rookie romance" can be really nefarious.  And it is romance, no matter how much people want to deny it.  It's the same mental space people fall into when they cheat on their wives/girlfriends (husbands/boyfriends) - the thrill of the new outweighs more or less known quantities like what Ryder or Savard can deliver. If you look at these uber talented rookies from a coach's perspective, you have to think about winning games first, second, last, and always.  Pat Burns defended his handling of Joe Thornton by saying he had 17 other skaters working their butts off to get the team wins the only way that team could, and if he couldn't trust Thornton not to hurt the team when he was on the ice, he couldn't play him.  Scotty Bowman had a ratio of how many additional goals against/losses you could count on for each rookie in the lineup. Coaches are hired and fired on wins, not development.  Seguin has to earn his coach's trust if he's going to get the ice time people want him to get.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    Nope. It's about recognizing a unique talent and utilizing it. That simple. What the Bruins do without Tyler is 
    1. hold on for dear life
    2. hope Thomas stands on his head
    3. hope they get a lucky break and assume they'll never miss an opportunity to score

    It's exactly the formula that allows a team to appear competitive but never really have a chance to win a championship. It's the prevent defense every time you get a lead. It's uninspired and uninspiring.

    When Tyler plays, the entire team plays better. He makes everyone a step faster, and puts constant pressure on the defense. If that's considered a negative in your system, then your system is stupid.

     

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from GNPBruins. Show GNPBruins's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    Perhaps its because Claude is a bully.  Only picks on the youngsters ala Kessel a couple of years back and now Sequin.  I understand once awhile, but you mean to tell me throughout his tenure as coach, Weidman, Ryder, Ference, Wheeler and others didn't deserve to sit?
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Newfiebullet. Show Newfiebullet's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    Actually Seguin, Savard & Horton got benched late in the game.

    Seguin looks like he is playing scared & given CJ's handling of him I don't blame him. CJ is more worried about the kids defence then actually allowing him to play to his strenghts. CJ should be giving him more rope as the kid is only 18 yrs old.

    As for Savard, regardless of his struggles early offensively, he has to start playing stronger in his zone defensively. If he is not capable then move him to left wing. It looks to me like they got Looch doing Savard's down low work & it is not working.

    As for Horton. He just looks disinterested most nights & I can easily see why Florida ran out of favor with him. Not very good with the puck either. As much heat as Ryder takes he has one less point then Horton & seems to get more involved most nights then Horton. Horton is talented but I am really questioning his intensity & work ethic.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    It really depends on Seguin's personality.  It is a matter of whether or not he can take the benching as a learning technique.  If he does not like that scenario then he maybe immature.  IMO he should play more often.  Yet, this fan will not compare his development with other 18 year olds either.  To Pin point the exact development of eighteen year old hockey players is just plain stupid.  The coach needs to be more consistent by sitting Horton et al along with the benching of Seguin.  

    I am still wondering how the Bs won last night other than the fact the team scored more goals than the Lightning.  
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from bandgbleeder. Show bandgbleeder's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    Against teams without such a scary offense, letting Seguin run out the leash is fine, against a team like the Lightning who put up three goals on the best defense and goaltending in the NHL, that's a bit unadvisable, Especially playing on the road where the other team has the last change.

    In Response to Re: So why was Tyler benched?:
    [QUOTE]Actually Seguin, Savard & Horton got benched late in the game. Seguin looks like he is playing scared & given CJ's handling of him I don't blame him. CJ is more worried about the kids defence then actually allowing him to play to his strenghts. CJ should be giving him more rope as the kid is only 18 yrs old. As for Savard, regardless of his struggles early offensively, he has to start playing stronger in his zone defensively. If he is not capable then move him to left wing. It looks to me like they got Looch doing Savard's down low work & it is not working. As for Horton. He just looks disinterested most nights & I can easily see why Florida ran out of favor with him. Not very good with the puck either. As much heat as Ryder takes he has one less point then Horton & seems to get more involved most nights then Horton. Horton is talented but I am really questioning his intensity & work ethic.
    Posted by Newfiebullet[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    If you really think TS makes that much of a positive difference right now, you're watching a different game.  I'll buy that everyone plays better - they have to to cover for the kid.

    As for "giving him some rope" - Kessel got killed for trying to go one on one every time he got the puck - remember that wind-it-up and try to skate the length of the ice manouever he'd try every chance he got?  Remember how rarely it worked?  How often it led to turnovers and the rest of the team scrambling to cover?  Not to mention frustration on the part of the veterans, many of whom were clearly thinking "you know, if I was allowed to freelance and cherry pick behind my man instead of getting good position between him and the net, and if I took selfish chances on rushing the puck, I'd probably score more often than this bozo."

    Right now, Seguin isn't getting results.  If he's frustrated and sulky, well, that's no different from most slumping hockey players who are used to scoring.  Success in the NHL is about more than talent.  There's a reason Jimmy Carson, Joe Murphy, even Daigle didn't become big stars.  They had incredible talents, but each had his own weaknesses that made him more of a liability than his talent could justify.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BuzzardBoots. Show BuzzardBoots's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    In Response to Re: So why was Tyler benched?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: So why was Tyler benched? : When Tyler plays, the entire team plays better. He makes everyone a step faster, and puts constant pressure on the defense. If that's considered a negative in your system, then your system is stupid.  
    Posted by CafardoSaysTradeBrady[/QUOTE]

    Complete fantasy land... Wishful thinking becoming a reality.

    Seguin's defense is suspect, he has zero physical game, and he's trying to do too much with the puck when it finds him.  The NHL is not Juniors.  He can't just skate through a forechecker and two defensemen every time he gets the puck.

    People have to be patient.  Other rookies on crappy teams that have started their first season gangbusters eventually hit the wall (Tavares anyone?).  Hall is all over the place because Edmonton stinks.  They've got no one else to go to.

    The "Rookie Romance" diagnosis is dead on.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    I actually thought Julien coached one of his best games as he punished players for not playing hard in a tightly contested game, shortened his bench and double shifted the 4th line late in the game which in last nights game they deserved it as they pummeled Tampa with awesome forechecking.

    1) Only player publicly disciplined this year by being benched 2 games.
    2) He's not put in a position to use his speed, no passes to him on the move in the neutral zone.
    3) Virtually no pp time, IMO he is built for the PP.


    ^Cam or Peter where are you ^
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    I know the guy's young, but I don't believe any of this mental "the coach is stunting my growth" BS. Professionals get it. He's not crying himself to sleep every night and blaming lack of production on the coach.

    If Seguin wants more ice time, he needs to earn it. Take the body once in a while, win battles for the puck along the boards, use his speed when he doesn't have the puck to get open, and get back on D like everyone else. Right now, he does this lazy sweep check whenever anyone's around him, and hesitates to pick up speed until the puck is on his stick.

    No doubt he'll get there and be successful in all of this, but just because he's a top pick doesn't mean CJ needs to bow down to him and let him shirk all the responsibilities pros have in today's game. Simply put: her wasn't as good last night as Lucic, Recchi, Wheeler, Ryder, Marchand and Thornton...all wingers who deserved their ice time over him.

    What does it teach the guy if you keep sending him out there and don't get different results? Marchand demanded to be put on the ice because of his play, not his draft status.

    Look for him to bounce back...and stop with the excuses that it's anyone's fault but his own.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from captainbergeron. Show captainbergeron's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

       Your reason is clearly stated in the box scores BadHab provided.

    http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=301228020

       In his 11 minutes of playing time he had 0 shots, 0 hits, not even a take away. Compare that now to Monday's game...

    http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=301227026

       He now has played 15 minutes with 4 shots and 1 hit. He played the same amount as Ryder, Recchi, and Wheeler on Monday. The Tampa Bay game consisted of back to back penalties and Seguin is low on the depth chart to qualify for PP time and we know he is a liability on defense, so we won't be seeing time on the PK. Seguin has to earn his time it's not just going to be handed to him, because he played well in Juniors.

       If anyone was benched yesterday it was Horton and Savard after the St. Louis game tying goal.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from CafardoSaysTradeBrady. Show CafardoSaysTradeBrady's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    In Response to Re: So why was Tyler benched?:
    [QUOTE]   Your reason is clearly stated in the box scores BadHab provided. http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=301228020    In his 11 minutes of playing time he had 0 shots, 0 hits, not even a take away. Compare that now to Monday's game... http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=301227026    He now has played 15 minutes with 4 shots and 1 hit. He played the same amount as Ryder, Recchi, and Wheeler on Monday. The Tampa Bay game consisted of back to back penalties and Seguin is low on the depth chart to qualify for PP time and we know he is a liability on defense, so we won't be seeing time on the PK. Seguin has to earn his time it's not just going to be handed to him, because he played well in Juniors.    If anyone was benched yesterday it was Horton and Savard after the St. Louis game tying goal.
    Posted by captainbergeron[/QUOTE]

    Take a look at David Krejci's line on that same page. 

    ;^)




     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from bluefox70. Show bluefox70's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?



    Hmm...... "benched" again? Maybe he had the flu again?  He isn't ready people! Lets hope he is in 2 years!
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from captainbergeron. Show captainbergeron's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    Krejci: 15:29 Even Strength, 3:20 PP time, 2:19 PK time, 1 hit, 1 GV

    Wheeler: 15:24 Even Strength, 0:32 PP time, 2:52 PK time, 3 Shots, 3 Hits, 1 GV

    Ryder: 15:27 Even Strength, 3:25 PP time, 0:00 PK time, 1 PPG (leads team with 7) 

    Trying to point out that these guys didn't play much better than Seguin and still earned more ice time. Lets now look at Seguin's line mates:

    Bergeron: 12:50 Even Strength, 3:20 PP time, 0:28 PK time, 1 Power Play Assist, 3 shots, 1 TK

    Recchi: 12:45 Even Strength, 3:04 PP time, 0:08 PK time, 1PPG, 1 Power Play Assist, 3 Shots, 2 Hits, 1 GV

    Seguin: 10:28 Even Strength, 0:00 PP time, 0:00 PK time

       As you can see Seguin's line mates were all taking care of business on the Power Play. Only playing 2 more minutes of even strength time, probably a reward for there performance on the Power Play. Seguin could have earned more ice time by bumping another player off another line, but who? Krejci, Ryder, & Wheeler are playing well together, Campbell, Thornton, & Marchand are playing really well together, and finally Savard and Horton for the most part were benched in the 3rd period. The only players for him to play with were Bergeron & Recchi.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from CafardoSaysTradeBrady. Show CafardoSaysTradeBrady's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    In Response to Re: So why was Tyler benched?:
    [QUOTE]Krejci: 15:29 Even Strength, 3:20 PP time, 2:19 PK time, 1 hit, 1 GV Wheeler: 15:24 Even Strength, 0:32 PP time, 2:52 PK time, 3 Shots, 3 Hits, 1 GV Ryder: 15:27 Even Strength, 3:25 PP time, 0:00 PK time, 1 PPG (leads team with 7)  Trying to point out that these guys didn't play much better than Seguin and still earned more ice time. Lets now look at Seguin's line mates: Bergeron: 12:50 Even Strength, 3:20 PP time, 0:28 PK time, 1 Power Play Assist, 3 shots, 1 TK Recchi: 12:45 Even Strength, 3:04 PP time, 0:08 PK time, 1PPG, 1 Power Play Assist, 3 Shots, 2 Hits, 1 GV Seguin: 10:28 Even Strength, 0:00 PP time, 0:00 PK time    As you can see Seguin's line mates were all taking care of business on the Power Play. Only playing 2 more minutes of even strength time, probably a reward for there performance on the Power Play. Seguin could have earned more ice time by bumping another player off another line, but who? Krejci, Ryder, & Wheeler are playing well together, Campbell, Thornton, & Marchand are playing really well together, and finally Savard and Horton for the most part were benched in the 3rd period. The only players for him to play with were Bergeron & Recchi.
    Posted by captainbergeron[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps your main point got lost in all the fonts, but I really just don't know what you're trying to say here.

    You said before that he sat because he played poorly, as evidenced by his line. Krejci had almost twice as many shifts, and had almost an identical line, plus a 35%ish faceoff percentage. So you were entirely wrong there.

    Now you're saying that he's sitting because the other players are playing power play minutes? You're confusing a bunch of different things to defend the decision and it's difficult to respond to, but one obvious place to start is that you can't show your ability on the power play (ability which seems to be exactly the kind of skill Tyler has) unless you play on the power play. If you don't play on the power play because you aren't playing the kind of 5-on-5 that the coach wants, even if you're naturally suited to the power play, then you've just found a way to limit your team's effectiveness to try to force a player into a system that isn't a good fit, while failing to take advantage of the talent available.

    If he ONLY plays on the power play because that's where his talents fit best, that's fine. If other players WHINE ABOUT THAT because they think they've "earned" power play time with system-fitting defensive 5-on-5, then I will personally hold the tissue in front of their noses so they can blow. You don't play players on the power play because they play good defensive 5-on-5, you play them on the power play because they can score on the power play.



     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tom857. Show Tom857's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    Tyler is still a young player, who has a lot of upside, and has to grow into it. He's been prone to terrible give-aways and poor passes, and losing 1-on-1's. As someone else mentioned, he's 12th in the league for rookie TOI... they're playing him, and putting him in positions to play and learn and grow while minimizing him in situations where he can hurt the team. Thornton was getting like 6 minutes a game his rookie year, and was sat a bunch. I'd say he developed. Stamkos (a frequent comparison drawn to Seguin) took half a year or so to get going when he was playing a LOT because his team SUCKED and had no depth. Seguin is going to take a while, but he WILL develop. Don't worry so much.
    Now, if you want to argue he should be on the PP, I'll agree with you there... but who sits? Savvy, Lucic, Horton, Krejci, Bergeron, Recchi, Ryder? You obviously want Savvy and Krejci. Lucic is your top goal scorer. Recchi and Ryder make their money on the power play... as they both did last night. So, you're really left with Bergeron and Horton. Bergeron has earned his spot, keeps possession well, and frequently plays a point position, which I don't see Tyler doing... more of an "in the circles" guy like Stamkos... so that really only leaves you with Horton. Neither has produced as of late, so the arguement is really a toss-up... except I have a feeling they'd like to see their big money-making acquistion get off the schnide and get on a roll like he did earlier in the year, and they probably feel like if he can pop in a Savvy feed or two, that might happen, and he can be consistent for a good stretch... and that he's more likely at this stage to be consistent when he gets going than Seguin is. As such, until Seguin forces their hand with good play, I can understand not giving him the PP spot, although I think it would benefit him... maybe benefitting Horton at this point is the bigger benefit for the TEAM.
    As for "sitting players": Wheeler was sat last year. In the playoffs, too. Kessel was sat in the playoffs. Last year Claude and PC even said that if not for injuries, some of the passengers (like Ryder) would have sat. As for sitting Wideman... remember some of the nobodies they were calling up on D at the end of the year? Were they REALLY better alternatives to your best offensive defenseman, even though he was making mistakes? Probably not. This year, they actually have some more depth on D in the minors, so they might have been more likely to do it... except Wideman is gone. People were calling for Sturm to be benched... well, he's gone.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from captainbergeron. Show captainbergeron's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    You got it, I was trying to cram to much into a short post and my point got lost in translation, but Tommy617 nailed what I was trying to say about the Power Play.

    Most of my posts take place when I'm in the office at work and today I've been in and out all day. I rushed that last one and fumbled it. Sorry.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: So why was Tyler benched?

    In Response to Re: So why was Tyler benched?:
    [QUOTE]I get mine off of the box score section of ESPN. http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/boxscore?gameId=301228020 His development is stunted, that is for sure.  I focused on him preseason and he was improving by leaps and bounds. What's going on with Tyler, I have no idea. 3 things are 100% sure in my mind. 1) Only player publicly disciplined this year by being benched 2 games. 2) He's not put in a position to use his speed, no passes to him on the move in the neutral zone. 3) Virtually no pp time, IMO he is built for the PP.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    B-Hab, you're killing me.    You're love affair with Seguin is leading to Rmiller87 quality posts.

    His development is stunted?  Based on what?  Based on or based on whom?

    What the heck do you know about developing players?  I know nothing.

    If a player is playing hard, playing well, and playing right, he never misses a shift.
     

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