Something smells funny Re : Marchand

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    Ok Marchand is this summer's Seguin topic thread, if the man wants a contract in the 3m to 4m range, then the management should walk the line and wait.  He has had one very good season and yes playoff.  But as Book stated and NAS hinted, the contract should be in the 2m to 3m range only... three years maximum. I am growing tired of the "love child" Marchand fandom.  He deserves credit undoubtedly, but he is no Sanderson yet....try string a few years together then do the "big talk" of contracts.  
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from thedauber1. Show thedauber1's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    folks, lets keep in mind that wheeler outscored him last year, and he just signed his 3rd contract for 2 years/5.1. i'm guessing brad signs something like that
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand:
    [QUOTE]folks, lets keep in mind that wheeler outscored him last year, and he just signed his 3rd contract for 2 years/5.1. i'm guessing brad signs something like that
    Posted by thedauber1[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely. Wheeler is a good comp. Obviously Wheels never had a playoff run like Marchand, but he also has more proven time in the NHL backing him up. Makes sense.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou. Show shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand : Absolutely. Wheeler is a good comp. Obviously Wheels never had a playoff run like Marchand, but he also has more proven time in the NHL backing him up. Makes sense.
    Posted by asmaha[/QUOTE]

    there's no real comparison between the two, IMO (you know, unless we're playing the "I'm Bruins GM and I need to lower the price for this guy" game). Marchand is a much better player with a much better attitude. some guys just have an inner drive and others do not. Brad does, Blake does not. I remember only one play that Blake ever made that was "above and beyond" expectations. ironically, I think it was on a play where he set up Marchand for a goal. Blake was falling down near the blue line and from his back (I believe) still found a way to get the puck over to Marchand (I believe) who immediately scored.

    Other than that, Blake was just kind of there, while Brad was more like " that's my puck, thanks. i'll take it back now. thank you. going around you now. good bye. thank you. time to deke now and oooooohh.... sssccoooorrreeeee!!!!!!"

    Brad's faster, carries the puck MUCH better, has a better shot, forechecks about as well if not better, and passes better.

    no comparison (although I'll admit that they both turn the puck over in similarly... what's the right word... inopportune ways).

    the only issue here is time served. if Marchand proves to be a one-year wonder, gets his money and then shuts it down I will be absolutely shocked. you really can usually tell the personalities that are eager to get complacent (media shyness being one red flag), and so far Brad is showing all the signs that he's the kind of player whose pride won't allow him to be "that guy".

    we shall see.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from thedauber1. Show thedauber1's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand : there's no real comparison between the two, IMO (you know, unless we're playing the "I'm Bruins GM and I need to lower the price for this guy" game). Marchand is a much better player with a much better attitude. some guys just have an inner drive and others do not. Brad does, Blake does not. I remember only one play that Blake ever made that was "above and beyond" expectations. ironically, I think it was on a play where he set up Marchand for a goal. Blake was falling down near the blue line and from his back (I believe) still found a way to get the puck over to Marchand (I believe) who immediately scored. Other than that, Blake was just kind of there, while Brad was more like " that's my puck, thanks. i'll take it back now. thank you. going around you now. good bye. thank you. time to deke now and oooooohh.... sssccoooorrreeeee!!!!!!" Brad's faster, carries the puck MUCH better, has a better shot, forechecks about as well if not better, and passes better. no comparison (although I'll admit that they both turn the puck over in similarly... what's the right word... inopportune ways). the only issue here is time served. if Marchand proves to be a one-year wonder, gets his money and then shuts it down I will be absolutely shocked. you really can usually tell the personalities that are eager to get complacent (media shyness being one red flag), and so far Brad is showing all the signs that he's the kind of player whose pride won't allow him to be "that guy". we shall see.
    Posted by shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou[/QUOTE]

    there within 3 points of each other and were RFAs in the same year...sure, no comparison then
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou. Show shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand : there within 3 points of each other and were RFAs in the same year...sure, no comparison then
    Posted by thedauber1[/QUOTE]

    I'm curious, would you trade Brad for Blake straight up? 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    Kind of a false distinction, steve.  The Bruins decided Kessel wasn't worth $5+ based on all the factors you name.  You don't pay a one dimensional goal-scorer who goes on holidays for long stretches that kind of cake.  You take a huge risk giving that coin to a guy who isn't in shape and doesn't take care of himself because that's a recipe for him ending up on the sideline or losing the wheels that make him however special he might be.  So both sides are true: Kessel is gone because he was a lazy, disgruntled little sob who seemed fundamentally uncoachable but who was offered crazy money elsewhere.

    No one would take Wheeler back for a pair of Marchand's socks (Stanley excepted), but that's not the way it usually works based on the arbitration model.  They'll look for guys with similar point totals and similar service time.

    Here are some guys at very close to the same age, most with a bit more NHL service than Mushmouth.  (Player - comparable stats - cap hit)

    Okposo - (pro-rates to about 42 points over 82 games) - $2.8M
    Berglund - 52p, 22g - $2.25M
    McBain - 30p on D - $850K (Still EL)
    Anisimov - 44p - $1.875M
    Frolik - 38p - $2.333

    Now, odds are you wouldn't trade Mushmouth straight up for any of these guys, but how big a factor do you make that out to be?  Do you pay a million more because you like his attitude and because he had a great playoffs?  Not likely.

    Average here, if you take out McBain, is a very Wheeler-like $2.32M.  I could see them pushing the number up to $2.5M for two years or even as high as $3M on a 3 or 4 year deal.  But I think the number will be close to what the arbitrator gave Wheeler last year adjusted for UFA Stupidity inflation.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou. Show shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand:
    [QUOTE]... Here are some guys at very close to the same age, most with a bit more NHL service than Mushmouth.  (Player - comparable stats - cap hit) Okposo - (pro-rates to about 42 points over 82 games) - $2.8M Berglund - 52p, 22g - $2.25M McBain - 30p on D - $850K (Still EL) Anisimov - 44p - $1.875M Frolik - 38p - $2.333 Now, odds are you wouldn't trade Mushmouth straight up for any of these guys, but how big a factor do you make that out to be?  Do you pay a million more because you like his attitude and because he had a great playoffs?  Not likely. ...Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    I agree with the whole post, except that in my eyes, the difference we are talking about is one of those rare differences that "makes" a difference. Marshmond is a difference maker. Are those other guys? You could make a case for a million bucks being a relatively cheap price for a playoff series. But I don't think it will be necessary. I think you have hit on the likely range, right around $3 mil per. 

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    I think the unknown factor here is the relationship between Marchand and management (PC & CJ). At least, it's unknown to me, not being a regular follower of the Bruins press; perhaps some of you can enlighten me on this. 

    There have been many cases in the past, where a player shows his value on the ice, but for some reason, is traded, or allowed to walk as a free agent.  In many of those cases, it's ego (player/agent begins to believe the press clippings) or chemistry (good on the ice, but not good 'in the room').  Perhaps Marchand's 'sandpaper' play is also evident in the way he deals with his teammates or coaches? 

    There must be some reason why he's still unsigned.  My guess (and really, it's just a guess) is ego, but it could just as easily be the other. 
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand:
    [QUOTE]I think the unknown factor here is the relationship between Marchand and management (PC & CJ). At least, it's unknown to me, not being a regular follower of the Bruins press; perhaps some of you can enlighten me on this.  There have been many cases in the past, where a player shows his value on the ice, but for some reason, is traded, or allowed to walk as a free agent.  In many of those cases, it's ego (player/agent begins to believe the press clippings) or chemistry (good on the ice, but not good 'in the room').  Perhaps Marchand's 'sandpaper' play is also evident in the way he deals with his teammates or coaches?  There must be some reason why he's still unsigned.  My guess (and really, it's just a guess) is ego, but it could just as easily be the other. 
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    49th.... it could be as simple as the cap going up to 64 million... just take a quick look at the ludicris free agent sigings this year.  If Marchand had two decent regular seasons and a great playoff then he would demand over 3 million. Otherwise he will have to be contented to compare his demands with Krejci and Bergeron contracts signed last year, imo he is not comparable at 3 million.  

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from beantowngm15. Show beantowngm15's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    Tweet from James Murphy:

    Marchand: 'We'll get something done' - Boston Bruins Blog - ESPN Boston
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    I agree 100% that Marchand has infinitely more value than Wheeler. Mine eyes doth see the light. However, the Wheeler comparison is exactly the type that will be brought up in negotiations - that's all I was saying. Book's numbers only reinforce the idea.

    Someone like Wheeler is brought up. Does Marchand deserve more? He did more with 240 minutes less, but also got PP and late-game time that Wheeler didn't. The eye test and intensity/intangible factor certainly means he should get more, but then Wheeler has been steady for a much larger sample size. Marchand made some amazing plays and only got better when the pressure was on, but he also had Bergeron and Recchi on his line as opposed to Wheeler's endless rotation of 3rd line mates in BOS and a transition to a new team that stunk. 

    The point is that a case can be made in many ways, and in the end it seems that the $2-$3/year range is where everything settles.

    Oh - and I want to see a McBain-McQuaid defensive combo in a few years. How do we make that happen?
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from perrysound. Show perrysound's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    Fernando Pisani anyone?
    He had 18 goals in 2005, and a killer playoff. A big reason why Edmonton got to the Finals. He got the big-ish contract, and that was the end of that. Don't do it!!!

    Love the guy, but need more proof. 


     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand:
    [QUOTE]I think the unknown factor here is the relationship between Marchand and management (PC & CJ). At least, it's unknown to me, not being a regular follower of the Bruins press; perhaps some of you can enlighten me on this.  Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]

    I take it as a sign that this is an interesting board when people like 49-North - whose choice of team can be tolerated because they're collegial contributors - stick around.  Kennedy.  LRH.  Red (Jetsfan@traitor.com).

    'course, that's the only sign this is an interesting board these days....[ba dum bump].  Anyone else ready for training camp?



     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from thedauber1. Show thedauber1's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand : I'm curious, would you trade Brad for Blake straight up? 
    Posted by shuturmouthwhenimtalkingtoyou[/QUOTE]

    what does that have to do with anything? wheeler is entering his 3rd contract, marchand his second. you don't pay for potential
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from stevegm. Show stevegm's posts

    Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand

    In Response to Re: Something smells funny Re : Marchand:
    [QUOTE]Kind of a false distinction, steve.  The Bruins decided Kessel wasn't worth $5+ based on all the factors you name.  You don't pay a one dimensional goal-scorer who goes on holidays for long stretches that kind of cake.  You take a huge risk giving that coin to a guy who isn't in shape and doesn't take care of himself because that's a recipe for him ending up on the sideline or losing the wheels that make him however special he might be.  So both sides are true: Kessel is gone because he was a lazy, disgruntled little sob who seemed fundamentally uncoachable but who was offered crazy money elsewhere. No one would take Wheeler back for a pair of Marchand's socks (Stanley excepted), but that's not the way it usually works based on the arbitration model.  They'll look for guys with similar point totals and similar service time. Here are some guys at very close to the same age, most with a bit more NHL service than Mushmouth.  (Player - comparable stats - cap hit) Okposo - (pro-rates to about 42 points over 82 games) - $2.8M Berglund - 52p, 22g - $2.25M McBain - 30p on D - $850K (Still EL) Anisimov - 44p - $1.875M Frolik - 38p - $2.333 Now, odds are you wouldn't trade Mushmouth straight up for any of these guys, but how big a factor do you make that out to be?  Do you pay a million more because you like his attitude and because he had a great playoffs?  Not likely. Average here, if you take out McBain, is a very Wheeler-like $2.32M.  I could see them pushing the number up to $2.5M for two years or even as high as $3M on a 3 or 4 year deal.  But I think the number will be close to what the arbitrator gave Wheeler last year adjusted for UFA Stupidity inflation.
    Posted by Bookboy007[/QUOTE]

    Not sure what you mean in that first paragraph Book.  I don't see any kind of false distinction.   I suggested PC would have signed him, if available at 3.8.  Wouldn't you agree that number is in the ball park?  
    If so, money was the sole issue, not all those other tangibles we both brought up.  At 3.8, all of a sudden, those negatives...aren't so negative.
    If PC doesn't want him at any price...whole different story.  My point isn't to debate the trade(we've had enough of that), just a fair example of how the biz works totally different than pre-cap, and how these monetary principals come down to every player in the league now.  One may feel Crosby is the finest overall player in the league right now.  There comes a point though, when every GM and every knowledgable fan, does not want him on their team.  That point is when salary exceeds perceived contribution.  It's not talent, it's not drive, and it's not likeability.  It's money. 
    It used to be, "do we want this player"...if yes, it then came down to the teams resolve in "ponying up".  Now, players are scratched on and off team wish lists, SOLELY.... on their salary, or particular ramifications to current payroll.
    The drafting process, is still is all about projecting talent....the most talent possible.  Building a great NHL team though....isn't.  Perhaps a teeny bit oversimplified, but today, it's all about squeezing the most cohesive talent, out of a specific amount of money.
     

Share