Souray vs Wiz

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Souray vs Wiz

    I said if healthy Souray would be the comeback player of the year and out pt Wiz.

    Souray- after 2 periods.  12 minutes.  1 assist.

    The Legend of Shuperman is growing.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from RichHillOntario. Show RichHillOntario's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]I said if healthy Souray would be the comeback player of the year and out pt Wiz. Souray- after 2 periods.  12 minutes.  1 assist. The Legend of Shuperman is growing.
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    shupe - Their careers have some similar parallels.  Didn't both parlay an outstanding season into hefty pay days?  Always thought Souray was solid but brittle big-time. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Souray vs Wiz : shupe - Their careers have some similar parallels.  Didn't both parlay an outstanding season into hafty pay days?  Always thought Souray was solid but brittle big-time. 
    Posted by RichHillOntario[/QUOTE]

    Souray is bad in his own end.  But he has a rocket and can anchor a PP because of it.  He also isnt shy to drop the gloves and is a monster. 
    Imagine Chara and Souray on a PP.  Better get life insurance b/c I wouldnt wanna be blocking those bad boys.  
    Souray is in a hidden market and I think he will have a pretty good year for them and likely get 10+ goals and 35-40 pts.  Not a bad investment in my eyes for what they paid him.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from user_3957105. Show user_3957105's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    Souray also made a name for himself in NJ as a tough SOB willling to drop with anyone back in the turn of the century (I always wanted to use that term incidentally). The offense came out of nowhere and surprised everyone.


    Wiz, completely different story...
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    thats on pace for what? 100 helpers?
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]thats on pace for what? 100 helpers?
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]

    This isnt MLB Kelv.  Good math though.

    Almost 20 minutes of ice, PP time, boomer of a shot lead to the game winner.  I say Souray gets the pt total I mentioned above.  He wants another contract.  He was embarassed sitting in the worst team in hockeys farm team. 

    Torres and Regher are starting to get a little jealous. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz



    Souray.  1 assist in his first game.

    Denis Reul 1 assist in his 5 ahl games.

    Souray: I don't know.

    Reul: I do know.  He certainly should do some vocational training other than hockey.

    1 game means zero.

    History means a lot.  Observing the individual means a lot.

    Reul.  Observed.  I will claim I am a better skater than he is.  I would contend several people I play with are better skaters.

    Souray.  History.  He's been a disaster.

    1 game means nothing.

    He has a LOT of history to overcome.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]Souray.  1 assist in his first game. Denis Reul 1 assist in his 5 ahl games. Souray: I don't know. Reul: I do know.  He certainly should do some vocational training other than hockey. 1 game means zero. History means a lot.  Observing the individual means a lot. Reul.  Observed.  I will claim I am a better skater than he is.  I would contend several people I play with are better skaters. Souray.  History.  He's been a disaster. 1 game means nothing. He has a LOT of history to overcome.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    How about after 2 games?  I didnt say he would be Bobby Orr.  I said he would out pt Wiz and if healthy would be comeback player of the year. 
    He is gonna get a lot of opportunities with zero pressure. 
    His contract was a dissaster and he was exciled from the team for messing with the locker room mojo.  You can't team someone to shoot 100mph.  He has always been excellent on the PP. 
    Not sure what the history you are talking about.  Redden signed a bad contract as well.  Doesnt mean he can't play in the league somewhere.  Not at that price but if he were a ufa he would be signed tomorrow. 

    In closing.  Read carefully professor.  I said he would be comeback player of the year if healthy and would out point Wiz under those rules. 
    2 games.  2 PP pts, 1 g 1 a.  18+ minutes of ice. 
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz : How about after 2 games?  I didnt say he would be Bobby Orr.  I said he would out pt Wiz and if healthy would be comeback player of the year.  He is gonna get a lot of opportunities with zero pressure.  His contract was a dissaster and he was exciled from the team for messing with the locker room mojo.  You can't team someone to shoot 100mph.  He has always been excellent on the PP.  Not sure what the history you are talking about.  Redden signed a bad contract as well.  Doesnt mean he can't play in the league somewhere.  Not at that price but if he were a ufa he would be signed tomorrow.  In closing.  Read carefully professor.  I said he would be comeback player of the year if healthy and would out point Wiz under those rules.  2 games.  2 PP pts, 1 g 1 a.  18+ minutes of ice. 
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]
    I remember someone else had also applauded the Souray signing....
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    I say Wizniewski is a much better player.  Does that matter for this discussion given that one guy has played 1/41 of the season and the other guy has yet to play a game?

    Souray might be a decent pick up for Dallas, who were very thin on D.  Otherwise...meh...
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]I say Wizniewski is a much better player.  Does that matter for this discussion given that one guy has played 1/41 of the season and the other guy has yet to play a game? Souray might be a decent pick up for Dallas, who were very thin on D.  Otherwise...meh...
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]
    Fletch, Souray seemed like a safe singning at 1.65m to play 3rd pair. This is provided he's given the right minutes. His shot and size are great for many situations but his age and loss of mobility make him a risk in many others.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz : Fletch, Souray seemed like a safe singning at 1.65m to play 3rd pair. This is provided he's given the right minutes. His shot and size are great for many situations but his age and loss of mobility make him a risk in many others.
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Agree on all counts Dez.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]I say Wizniewski is a much better player.  Does that matter for this discussion given that one guy has played 1/41 of the season and the other guy has yet to play a game? Souray might be a decent pick up for Dallas, who were very thin on D.  Otherwise...meh...
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    I don't think there is an argument whgo is the better player.  But for the money who would you rather have.  Again two games mean nadda.  But I said if put in the right situation Souray would do well and his pts would go up again. 
    I think Souray will get 40 pts and play a rugged style that he has always played with. 

    You look at Bergeron in TBay.  Very good PP dman and terrible in his own end.  I personally would rather Souray who played over 20 minutes last night and 18 in his 1st game.

    I wanted to keep an eye on Souray, Torres, Regher and Buffalo this year.
    So far Buffalo has been fantastic. 
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz : I don't think there is an argument whgo is the better player.  But for the money who would you rather have.  Again two games mean nadda.  But I said if put in the right situation Souray would do well and his pts would go up again.  I think Souray will get 40 pts and play a rugged style that he has always played with.  You look at Bergeron in TBay.  Very good PP dman and terrible in his own end.  I personally would rather Souray who played over 20 minutes last night and 18 in his 1st game. I wanted to keep an eye on Souray, Torres, Regher and Buffalo this year. So far Buffalo has been fantastic. 
    Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    If he gets 40 pts I would agree he's the comback player of the year - and maybe you could argue the decade.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz : If he gets 40 pts I would agree he's the comback player of the year - and maybe you could argue the decade.
    Posted by BadHabitude[/QUOTE]

    So you think he gets there?

    He will have exclusive PP time and 18-20 minutes a game.  38 pts away. 
    Stay tuned.  I say if healthy he gets it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz : I don't think there is an argument whgo is the better player.  But for the money who would you rather have. Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    I think there is a very good argument. Asking the Oilers ? Ah you would a resounding "No" to Souray on that question! Interesting though Souray was 30 when he finally broke 50 points in a season, Wiz on the other hand was 26 years young going on 27.

    So which player was better at the age of 26/27 ? Wisniewski better and we don't know yet how good James will be yet at the age of 30 but he's trending upwards starting at a younger age.

    James Wiz winner, winner chicken dinner...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz : I think there is a very good argument. Asking the Oilers ? Ah you would a resounding "No" to Souray on that question! Interesting though Souray was 30 when he finally broke 50 points in a season, Wiz on the other hand was 26 years young going on 27. So which player was better at the age of 26/27 ? Wisniewski better and we don't know yet how good James will be yet at the age of 30 but he's trending upwards starting at a younger age. James Wiz winner, winner chicken dinner...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    So you would be prepared to pay Wiz slightly less than Keith over Souray for very similar game?  Wiz is simply not that good.  Late bloomer yes.  Allstar? No way.  Souray was and should have never left montreal. 

    So back to the History lesson again.   He actually had a very good year in Edmonton as well in terms of pts.  He has scored over 20 goals twice.  Based on his averages alone on full seasons he is a lock for 35+ pts. 
    Did he sign a terrible contract?  Yes.  But he was gonna get that money somewhere.  His problem was being a locker room cancer.  I still think his game(what he had) is still there.

    For the money I would rather have Souray. 
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz : So you would be prepared to pay Wiz slightly less than Keith over Souray for very similar game?  Wiz is simply not that good.  Late bloomer yes.  Allstar? No way.   So back to the History lesson again.   Posted by shuperman[/QUOTE]

    And I provided the history as to where both players were at in progression before the age of 30. Wiz accomplished more in the midst of his prime, Souray accomplished his 50 point plus seasons at the end of his prime.

    Souray will never approach those numbers ever, ever again. There is every indication that Wiz will get to Souray's best years before he is 30 years old. Shup you have provided me no facts that can say Souray is a better player because James is easily the better player when they both were in their late 20s.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz : And I provided the history as to where both players were at in progression before the age of 30. Wiz accomplished more in the midst of his prime, Souray accomplished his 50 point plus seasons at the end of his prime. Souray will never approach those numbers ever, ever again. There is every indication that Wiz will get to Souray's best years before he is 30 years old. Shup you have provided me no facts that can say Souray is a better player because James is easily the better player when they both were in their late 20s.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    I already stated that Wiz currently is the better player.  I am not debating this at all.   I think you are missing my pt or ignoring it.  Here it is:
    - Souray if healthy will out pt Wiz this year.
    - Souray if healthy will get 40pts this year. 

    And I can post Souray's totals for his career but will simply state that when Souray plays a healthy season he is a lock for 35+ pts.  I don't care if he played in the minors b/c of a feud with the Oilers.  He is getting prime minutes this year and has already notched 2 PP pts in two games.  And I think if you take Sourays all star year it is very comparible to any top producing dman of the last 20 yrs. 
    Heck here is some evidence on history:
    03-04 63 games  15g/20a 35 pts
    05-06 75 games  12g/27a 39 pts
    06-07 81 games  26g/38a 64 pts(Wiz will never top this total or make an allstar team).
    08-09 81 games  23g/30a 53 pts.(Wiz will never reach 20 goal mark). 

    In fact the mighty Z has never come close to Sourays best year.  I think Sourays totals make the history lesson a moot pt. 

    And again, if you wanna play along San without jumping outside the topic I would love to have you over.  Now go get your ghetto-blaster and crank some Shoop!
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    Stop avoiding the question. Who was the better player at the age of 26 and 27 years old ?

    You have provided nothing that suggests Wiz can't accomplish Souray's two best years, nothing.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]Stop avoiding the question. Who was the better player at the age of 26 and 27 years old ? You have provided nothing that suggests Wiz can't accomplish Souray's two best years, nothing.
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    I can't.  Have you looked at his totals?  What evidence have you provided that he can reach them. 
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    2001-2002    Canadiens    34     3     5     8
    2003-2004    Canadiens    63    15    20   35

    2009-2010     Ducks           69     3     27     30
    2010-2011     Islanders       32     3     18     21
    2010-2011     Canadiens     43     7     23     30

    The math does not lie where the two players were at in the beginnings of their prime...
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    In Response to Re: Souray vs Wiz:
    [QUOTE]2001-2002    Canadiens    34     3     5     8 2003-2004    Canadiens    63    15    20   35 2009-2010     Ducks           69     3     27     30 2010-2011     Islanders       32     3     18     21 2010-2011     Canadiens     43     7     23     30 The math does not lie where the two players were at in the beginnings of their prime...
    Posted by SanDogBrewin[/QUOTE]

    The great thing about this is that I already have the history in stats on my side.  You have to hope he can all of a sudden turn into a 20 goal scoring dman when he has never notched more than 10 in a year.  Souray had 15 goals which if you wanna do the math is more than Wiz in all three yrs you provided. 

    But nice sample size to support your pt.  I will make a claim that he never scores 26 goals.  And he sure as heck is gonna have a hard time making an allstar team with Nash there.  And he may never play 82 games b/c he is basically under review for life with this latest suspension.

    BUT-  you have completely gone off course.  I said this year!  Not last!, not an allstar year for Souray.  Badhab indicated that his hirtory was bad.  I think he has put a pretty nice career together.  I think he has started this year well and his ice time on a not so great team is likely gonna remain.  Heck he could be a target for a playoff team if he manages decent numbers all year based on his contract. 
    If healthy! He will have a more productive point year than Wiz!  Let the season unfold. 
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    I will give that his stats are trending up just for arguments sake.  Which is a double edged sword if he doesnt beat Souray in pts this year. 
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Souray vs Wiz

    You lose and there is no benefit of the doubt. Wizniewski has accomplished more at a younger age than when Sheldon was at the same age. Then what do you do ? Keep throwing stats up when Souray was at the end of his peek. I can't compare Wiz at 30 plus because he hasn't reached that age. You are the one who doesn't get it.

    James isn't 30+ years old yet so Souray's points in that age range are irrelevant. Wiz by the time he was in his 2nd full NHL season had accomplished 81 points total versus Sheldon had a meek 43 points total.

    That's like me saying Arniel is better than Spooner because James has played better in the AHL. Stop ignoring the real points compared the ones that can't be compared yet.
     

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