Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]Kinda funny that the OP criticizes Edmonton fans for picking Hall about 100%, yet essentially every poster here just knows Seguin is the better player. I still see Hall as a better skater and sniper or not, many of Seguin's goals have depended on a dish from a linemate.  Hall still looks a little better at taking it to the next by himself. Its simply too soon to make any valid comparison.
    Posted by SoxFanInIL[/QUOTE]

    this is borderline incoherent. Additionally, it's clear that you didn't watch the videos, Seguin has almost 10 more gorgeous individual efforts than Hall. You just made that up about seguin's line-mates.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from BTownExpress. Show BTownExpress's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Taylor might never get what Tyler got last year: his name on the Cup.  What that has done for Tyler is unbelievable..already seen the game 7 bit in the opposition's home arena..big stuff.

    Remember: guys like Marshy ansd Seggy have a barometer like Bergy.  That is a big bonus!

    EDIT: Bergy has been great since he was 18 (in the NHL), as well..a bit more experience; did the foreign language barrier thing..knows the deal.

    Oh, and Hammy (i.e., Hamilton) will get to follow Chara.  This is another reason why they (i.e Chara/Bergy) got the extensions- they make other players more valuable.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from 49-North. Show 49-North's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    As always, I'll provide the outsider's viewpoint on this somewhat pointless debate.

    I've seen lots of TH, and he's definitely the real deal.  The difference between TH and TS is that TH has been on the #1 line for a while now, so he faces the 'shut down' d-pair and the best opposing defensive forwards.  That hasn't been the case with TS, though it may start happening now. 

    They are both fantastic talents, as evidenced by the Taylor or Tyler debate which preceded the draft.  I think the consensus (borne out by results) was that the Oilers or Bruins would be pleased with either player, and it was simply a matter of 'fit'.  If the Oilers can keep this core of young superstars-in-waiting together for the next 5-7 years, and can get an alpha-D-man or two, watch out -- we could be talking dynasty again, especially when the Oilers open their new building, and improve their revenue stream.

    The comparison of playoff achievement is currently moot, for obvious reasons.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]As always, I'll provide the outsider's viewpoint on this somewhat pointless debate. I've seen lots of TH, and he's definitely the real deal.  The difference between TH and TS is that TH has been on the #1 line for a while now, so he faces the 'shut down' d-pair and the best opposing defensive forwards.  That hasn't been the case with TS, though it may start happening now.  They are both fantastic talents, as evidenced by the Taylor or Tyler debate which preceded the draft.  I think the consensus (borne out by results) was that the Oilers or Bruins would be pleased with either player, and it was simply a matter of 'fit'.  If the Oilers can keep this core of young superstars-in-waiting together for the next 5-7 years, and can get an alpha-D-man or two, watch out -- we could be talking dynasty again, especially when the Oilers open their new building, and improve their revenue stream. The comparison of playoff achievement is currently moot, for obvious reasons.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]
    Perhaps that would explain why they're winning so much this year. If the kid line is facing the top checkers, then Smyth, Horcoff and Hemsky should get more room to move. I'll be interested to see which line CJ decides to match up against Chara.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]As always, I'll provide the outsider's viewpoint on this somewhat pointless debate. I've seen lots of TH, and he's definitely the real deal.  The difference between TH and TS is that TH has been on the #1 line for a while now, so he faces the 'shut down' d-pair and the best opposing defensive forwards.  That hasn't been the case with TS, though it may start happening now.  They are both fantastic talents, as evidenced by the Taylor or Tyler debate which preceded the draft.  I think the consensus (borne out by results) was that the Oilers or Bruins would be pleased with either player, and it was simply a matter of 'fit'.  If the Oilers can keep this core of young superstars-in-waiting together for the next 5-7 years, and can get an alpha-D-man or two, watch out -- we could be talking dynasty again, especially when the Oilers open their new building, and improve their revenue stream. The comparison of playoff achievement is currently moot, for obvious reasons.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]


    Sorry I understand your point, but I don't buy the comparison really. Try to think of it this way: If we are to take Taylor Hall being as being one of the best players in this league, specifically on offense, then he should simply be better than those defending him.

    Ovechkin/Crosby/Stamkos/Sedin/Toews/even good players on bad teams like kessel/Spezza/kovalchuk/Rick Nash etc, all face the best "shut down" lines every night, and they get it done regardless. Sure, some nights are tougher than others, but if Hall isn't doing the job then it should be noted as such. You can't play the "he has potential" argument any more, plenty of players have broken through their second season, and there is just too much talent in Edmonton to excuse it.


     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from bluefox70. Show bluefox70's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?


    Injury aside, Taylor is way better than Tyler. Its not even arguable.  Hall was on pace for 30 goals as a rookie, back checking and was hitting.

    Tyler was benched last year when the games got tough.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]Injury aside, Taylor is way better than Tyler. Its not even arguable.  Hall was on pace for 30 goals as a rookie, back checking and was hitting. Tyler was benched last year when the games got tough.
    Posted by bluefox70[/QUOTE]
    How is your assertion relevant regarding who is the better player today? I saw Seguin playing in the 7th game of the Stanley Cup Finals. Do games get bigger than that? What were these "tough" games that Hall was featured in? Enlighten us please....
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:[QUOTE]In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player? :  Reminds me a lot of former Cap, Leaf, North Star, Ranger and Coyote Mike Gartner who routinely used to rocket down his wing, get played off to the side by the D, circle the net and either take a sharp angle shot or pass it back to the point.  Seguin seems to be making better use of those around him at this point which to me gives him an added dimension. Posted by RichHillOntario[/QUOTE]

    I think Hall will work out his current inabilities/inefficiencies eventually way too smart a hockey sense for him. If we are comparing to toady who is better it is Seguin even if you through in last year.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BruinsIn4. Show BruinsIn4's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player? : How is your assertion relevant regarding who is the better player today? I saw Seguin playing in the 7th game of the Stanley Cup Finals. Do games get bigger than that? What were these "tough" games that Hall was featured in? Enlighten us please....
    Posted by dezaruchi[/QUOTE]

    Don't you just love it when you see blocked posters comments because of a reply? Dez, bf70 needs to be on your block list.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player? : this is borderline incoherent. Additionally, it's clear that you didn't watch the videos, Seguin has almost 10 more gorgeous individual efforts than Hall. You just made that up about seguin's line-mates.
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    This whole thread is incoherent, how about waiting until there is more of a sample before people decide who is better. Hall had his season cut short last year, Seguin had sporadic playing time and we are not even 20 games into their next season. I can go to Youtube and get 10 times the number of videos of Samsonov hist first 2 years in the league. Does that make him a better player than Seguin?











     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from LUCICmilan17. Show LUCICmilan17's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Not sure who is better but right now I can say without a doubt jeff skinner as of today is the best player from that draft.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player? : This whole thread is incoherent, how about waiting until there is more of a sample before people decide who is better. Hall had his season cut short last year, Seguin had sporadic playing time and we are not even 20 games into their next season. I can go to Youtube and get 10 times the number of videos of Samsonov hist first 2 years in the league. Does that make him a better player than Seguin?
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]


    Its fun to speculate, i mean, the "absolute snipe meter" wasn't meant to be an exact science. If you read my post, you'd see that part of my problem is that people just assume that THall is the better player, and I think there is evidence to the contrary that needs to be considered by Oilers fans. 

    But anyway, nice try on the Samsonov camparison, but no. Samsonov in no way resembled Tyler Seguin his rookie season, despite the fact he scored much more. First of all, Samsonov was a wing. Second, he was ridiculously undersized. Third, he wasn't even close to as fast as Seguin. Granted, the guy had world-class edges, but he couldn't actually break it to the net because it lacked the size, power, and elite speed to create space in the dangerous areas. Yea, Samsonov had some pretty goals, but he is not/never was in the same league in terms of speed and shooting and hockey sense. 

    When evaluating talent, and how good a player will be in the future, or how good a player currently is, you need to look at his skill set and project it into all of the different potential conditions that he will have to negotiate in the future. Sergie Samsonov did not have skills that were indefensible, he didn't have a lethal ability. Seguin; however, has several lethal abilities that are indefensible: Speed, shooting, hockey sense.These abilities scale no matter what condition Seguin will find himself in. Samsonov didn't have a skill set that was scaleable. He was like a closer with a really good fastball and no secondary pitches. Great, nice rookie season Sergie, but it wouldn't take much to shut you down. 

    I know the point you are trying to make, and its reasonable to want a larger sample size, but if you have a hard time telling the difference between Seguin and Samsonov, I don't know what to tell you, watch more hockey.

    Another thing I'm not surprised by, is how many people either don't see a diffence between the goals Seguin or Hall scores, or don't think it's important. In My opinion, the skill that Seguin displays when he scores a goal is representative of a higher talent level. The goals Seguin scores have a huge degree of difficulty, they aren't back-door garbage goals. 

    You can teach positioning, and as Seguin gets more ice time, he will start picking up his fair share of garbage goals. But what you can't teach is pure hockey skill, and Seguin has it and shows it off at a much higher rate than Taylor Hall.



    **quick note on skinner: He's a great player, he has amazing agility and goal scoring ability, but he isn't the same passer as Seguin. Jeff Skinner reminds me of a version of Sidney Crosby, that doesn't have elite vision and passing ability. Obviously, we all know that's still a heck of a player considering that Sid is the best player in the league bar-none.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player? : Its fun to speculate, i mean, the "absolute snipe meter" wasn't meant to be an exact science. If you read my post, you'd see that part of my problem is that people just assume that THall is the better player, and I think there is evidence to the contrary that needs to be considered by Oilers fans.  But anyway, nice try on the Samsonov camparison, but no. Samsonov in no way resembled Tyler Seguin his rookie season, despite the fact he scored much more. First of all, Samsonov was a wing. Second, he was ridiculously undersized. Third, he wasn't even close to as fast as Seguin. Granted, the guy had world-class edges, but he couldn't actually break it to the net because it lacked the size, power, and elite speed to create space in the dangerous areas. Yea, Samsonov had some pretty goals, but he is not/never was in the same league in terms of speed and shooting and hockey sense.  When evaluating talent, and how good a player will be in the future, or how good a player currently is, you need to look at his skill set and project it into all of the different potential conditions that he will have to negotiate in the future. Sergie Samsonov did not have skills that were indefensible, he didn't have a lethal ability. Seguin; however, has several lethal abilities that are indefensible: Speed, shooting, hockey sense.These abilities scale no matter what condition Seguin will find himself in. Samsonov didn't have a skill set that was scaleable. He was like a closer with a really good fastball and no secondary pitches. Great, nice rookie season Sergie, but it wouldn't take much to shut you down.  I know the point you are trying to make, and its reasonable to want a larger sample size, but if you have a hard time telling the difference between Seguin and Samsonov, I don't know what to tell you, watch more hockey. Another thing I'm not surprised by, is how many people either don't see a diffence between the goals Seguin or Hall scores, or don't think it's important. In My opinion, the skill that Seguin displays when he scores a goal is representative of a higher talent level. The goals Seguin scores have a huge degree of difficulty, they aren't back-door garbage goals.  You can teach positioning, and as Seguin gets more ice time, he will start picking up his fair share of garbage goals. But what you can't teach is pure hockey skill, and Seguin has it and shows it off at a much higher rate than Taylor Hall. **quick note on skinner: He's a great player, he has amazing agility and goal scoring ability, but he isn't the same passer as Seguin. Jeff Skinner reminds me of a version of Sidney Crosby, that doesn't have elite vision and passing ability. Obviously, we all know that's still a heck of a player considering that Sid is the best player in the league bar-none.
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    I am a bit surprised at how many people aren't getting this.

    SoxFanIL - I only know of ONE goal where Seguin got a tap in - a dish from a team mate - and he had to work for it, it wasn't an easy tap in.  I think you meant to say most of his goals were NOT a dish from  a team mate.

    BlueFox - benched when things got tough?  Like when he got benched in the playoffs and came back for TB?
    Plus, it speaks volumes about Seguin that he has improved so much since last year.
    Who cares about what Seguin did last year when we won the cup anyway?
    In any race, it's not how fast you start, but where you are at the finish.

    Yes, it is very early in both their careers.  I haven't seen that much of Hall.  I have seen a lot of Tyler.

    You cannot tell me that Tyler with the puck inside the offensive zone isn't a real scoring threat.  He gets people out of their seats.

    He still hasn't fully physically matured yet, even if he doesn't get bigger, he will certainly get stronger.

    If you don't see he's an immense talent, and his talent is trending upward, you are either ignorant or yanking my chain.

    If you don't see that *virtually* every goal he's scored has been a thing of beauty, a "pure snipe", sorry, you're ignorant.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BadHabitude. Show BadHabitude's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?


    The real relevant question, who's the better player, Hall or Nugent Hopkins?

    I'm impressed by the Nugent Hopkins kid.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Your asking today BadHab and so far RNH is a much better player. What a sniper been singing his praises all season as he always puts himself in the right position, gets garbage goals as well has a nose for it.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from SmokingJoe. Show SmokingJoe's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    I would say, right now, its a wash.  Tyler has certainly closed the gap.

    Tyler, is going to grow into his body and get even bigger/ stronger.

    I am very happy that we have tyler. 

    Both a great kids, but tyler is my choice, especially longer term because of size.
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]I would say, right now, its a wash.  Tyler has certainly closed the gap. Tyler, is going to grow into his body and get even bigger/ stronger. I am very happy that we have tyler.  Both a great kids, but tyler is my choice, especially longer term because of size.
    Posted by SmokingJoe[/QUOTE]
    We can say that neither team lost out with their pick. Both are great young players that should have solid careers ahead.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from DallasSmith. Show DallasSmith's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]As always, I'll provide the outsider's viewpoint on this somewhat pointless debate. I've seen lots of TH, and he's definitely the real deal.  The difference between TH and TS is that TH has been on the #1 line for a while now, so he faces the 'shut down' d-pair and the best opposing defensive forwards.  That hasn't been the case with TS, though it may start happening now.  They are both fantastic talents, as evidenced by the Taylor or Tyler debate which preceded the draft.  I think the consensus (borne out by results) was that the Oilers or Bruins would be pleased with either player, and it was simply a matter of 'fit'.  If the Oilers can keep this core of young superstars-in-waiting together for the next 5-7 years, and can get an alpha-D-man or two, watch out -- we could be talking dynasty again, especially when the Oilers open their new building, and improve their revenue stream. The comparison of playoff achievement is currently moot, for obvious reasons.
    Posted by 49-North[/QUOTE]
    I agree with a lot of your analysis except when you suggest that Tyler hasn't faced the checking line and top D on the other team.That may be the case but on the flip side it is only recently[the last 5 games or so]that Tyler has had the opportunity to play with two good[offensive] players in Bergeron /Marchand.Taylor certainly impressed tonight at times ,as others have mentioned,you couldn't go wrong with either player. 
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BsLegion. Show BsLegion's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    Verdict last nigh Seguin 1 Hall 0 ... nah that's not fair.
    Hall did look better than he did the other night in Montreal. 
    Last night, I call it a draw between the 2.

    Nice read.

    http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=600161&CID=7640138&CMPID=NHL2734-347905
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from TheGuyWithDaThing. Show TheGuyWithDaThing's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    It was nice to see Tyler score a goal that Taylor has made a name for himself on....driving to the net and getting a garbage goal.
    I think Tyler will finish the year ahead of Hall in virtually all categories.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from SomethingBrewin. Show SomethingBrewin's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    TYLER FREAKING SEGUIN!
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]It was nice to see Tyler score a goal that Taylor has made a name for himself on....driving to the net and getting a garbage goal. I think Tyler will finish the year ahead of Hall in virtually all categories.
    Posted by TheGuyWithDaThing[/QUOTE]

    You are 0 for 2 . First Murphy now this.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player? : Its fun to speculate, i mean, the "absolute snipe meter" wasn't meant to be an exact science. If you read my post, you'd see that part of my problem is that people just assume that THall is the better player, and I think there is evidence to the contrary that needs to be considered by Oilers fans.  But anyway, nice try on the Samsonov camparison, but no. Samsonov in no way resembled Tyler Seguin his rookie season, despite the fact he scored much more. First of all, Samsonov was a wing. Second, he was ridiculously undersized. Third, he wasn't even close to as fast as Seguin. Granted, the guy had world-class edges, but he couldn't actually break it to the net because it lacked the size, power, and elite speed to create space in the dangerous areas. Yea, Samsonov had some pretty goals, but he is not/never was in the same league in terms of speed and shooting and hockey sense.  When evaluating talent, and how good a player will be in the future, or how good a player currently is, you need to look at his skill set and project it into all of the different potential conditions that he will have to negotiate in the future. Sergie Samsonov did not have skills that were indefensible, he didn't have a lethal ability. Seguin; however, has several lethal abilities that are indefensible: Speed, shooting, hockey sense.These abilities scale no matter what condition Seguin will find himself in. Samsonov didn't have a skill set that was scaleable. He was like a closer with a really good fastball and no secondary pitches. Great, nice rookie season Sergie, but it wouldn't take much to shut you down.  I know the point you are trying to make, and its reasonable to want a larger sample size, but if you have a hard time telling the difference between Seguin and Samsonov, I don't know what to tell you, watch more hockey. Another thing I'm not surprised by, is how many people either don't see a diffence between the goals Seguin or Hall scores, or don't think it's important. In My opinion, the skill that Seguin displays when he scores a goal is representative of a higher talent level. The goals Seguin scores have a huge degree of difficulty, they aren't back-door garbage goals.  You can teach positioning, and as Seguin gets more ice time, he will start picking up his fair share of garbage goals. But what you can't teach is pure hockey skill, and Seguin has it and shows it off at a much higher rate than Taylor Hall. **quick note on skinner: He's a great player, he has amazing agility and goal scoring ability, but he isn't the same passer as Seguin. Jeff Skinner reminds me of a version of Sidney Crosby, that doesn't have elite vision and passing ability. Obviously, we all know that's still a heck of a player considering that Sid is the best player in the league bar-none.
    Posted by Olsonicator[/QUOTE]

    In no way shape or form did I imply Samsonov was as good as Seguin..I was refering to you judging players on individual highlight videos from Youtube to decide which one is better...Anyone with common sense and half a brain could have figured that out

    Skinner reminds you of Crosby, minus the elite vision and passing ability?
    Did Greg Hawgood remind you of Ray Bourque minus the god given talent?

    Your posts are uneducated drivel and they suck.
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from PAULICAS1975. Show PAULICAS1975's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    My answer is a tie so far. Hall had a better year last season then Seguin But Seguin won the Cup. This year I think Seguin is playing better then Hall. So, I this so far this season and last years is a tie. These 2 kids will be great hockey players. I just think its too dam early to say who is better.

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Olsonicator. Show Olsonicator's posts

    Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?

    In Response to Re: Taylor vs. Tyler: Who is the better player?:
    [QUOTE] Your posts are uneducated drivel and they suck.
    Posted by kelvana33[/QUOTE]


    lol, o.k. pal, feel free to ignore me then. good day.
     

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