The Kelly problem

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    The Kelly problem

    I think it's time the guy gets his own thread.  Chris Bourque has been dissected and reassembled ad nauseum.  Speculation about who else is available has gone on for weeks.  Peverley's numbers are almost identitical to Kelly's (RP has one more point and he's -8 where CK is -7), but it sure is starting to look to me like RP is wearing Kelly's hair shirt.

    The last two games have been the worst in terms of Kelly's line being on for goals against.  CK was -5 vs. Mtl and Was.  And a lot of the goals against have been goals where the Bruins are out-worked or beaten to the puck in the defensive zone.  Or on the rush.  There's no excuse for a line that has 5 goals in 20 games (combined) to be giving up odd-man rushes because they got caught on the wrong side of the puck.  What are they doing?  Taking a calculated risk? That should be an easy calculation - should I drift a little lower in case I can score if I can just get the puck in open space?  NO.  Even in the games where Kelly has points, he's ended up a minus twice.  He's finished the game as a plus player three times all year.

    Now, a lot of this looks like beating up Kelly with a bad stat, but what I'm seeing from him on the ice is the usual lack of offensive awareness compounded by a lack of confidence.  He knows he needs to score at least a little and I think it's affecting his defensive game.  The guy's a coach's pro, a 32 yr old vet, but what do you do? 

    I think you let it ride.  Kelly was 0-2-2 and -3 in his first 20 games in Boston, but he finished the year with three points in the final four games, had six in the first round against Montreal that year, another four against the Tampans, and a respectable 13 in 25 playoff games on the way to the Cup.  He's played his way out of deep dark holes before.  As painful as I think it has been lately, I think he gets the chance to do it again.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    The problem with placing blame on a defense-first center from the third line is that he can't be everywhere at the same time. Seems to me the majority of problems with this line come off the wing - guys losing puck battles, guys not slowing down the other team enter the zone, guys not getting back into position. And let's not mention the bajillion times Ference and McQuaid fail to win battles behind their goal line and the puck ends up in front of the net.

     

    Nope, -8 for RP and aimless skating shifts by CB are bigger problems. Kelly is third in the blame pie for that line.

     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from MeanE. Show MeanE's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Kelly & Peverley are certainly not earning their $3.0 & $3.2 Million dollars.  At least little Ray is only making $550K.  Is it a slow start again? Or is Kelly coming back to earth after a great stanley cup run and season last year, because his stats now are looking more like his career stats with Ottawa, instead of the career year he had last.  If PC can upgrade and package one in a trade, I wouldn't be upset.  Not sure that CK will earn his $3 a year until 15-16 or if Peverley will earn his $3.25 until 14-15.

     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from DrCC. Show DrCC's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Some numbers:

    Taking Kelly as the representative of the third line, and Campbell as the fourth, this is how things compare to last season:

    Kelly's line: -2.1 goals for /60 minutes, +0.3 goals against/60

    Campbell's: even on goals for, +1.5 on goals against/60. 

    As rough as the defense has been when Kelly's line is on the ice, it's really not much worse than last year.  They just aren't scoring at nearly the same pace.  That can't all be Pouliot, can it?

    I'm not sure which problem is bigger, the un-scoring 3rd or scored-against 4th.

     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from kelvana33. Show kelvana33's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    They need to get going. How much of it is tied to Bourque being on the wing there for a while? Who knows, but Kelly and Peverley have been a dissapointment, and this is where I'd like to see Chiarelli be pro active at the deadline. Forget about Alfredsson,Iginla etc..Get a 3rd line winger that will help these two, move Paille back to the fourth line.

     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Whether the problem is Bourque or Kelly or Peverley or all of them in combination the fact remains that this line is no longer trustworthy in almost any situation. It was telling that after the tying goal (courtesy of Bourque being caught completely flatfooted in the neutral zone) the 4rth line played more shifts then they did....a message from CJ. One thing is for certain, something needs to be done and I am not talking about Pandolfo.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Do you realize how much energy it takes to prevent yourself from being sucked into the event horizon of a blackhole.  He has had a blackhole on his left side most of the season.  He has been busting his buttox trying to play his defense and Bourque defense.  Either he is sick of it or more likely he has been told he needs to generate more offensively. 

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Kelly and Peverley did well last year and the year before.  They are robots, so you have to look for the difference.  This is all Chris Bourque's fault.

    Honestly, here's a different way to look at this:

    Remember when Marchand played way below his level and skated with Thornton and helped him to his thunderous 10 goals?  Maybe Pouliot and Ryder did the same for Kelly and Peverley.  If a good third line winger is a Level 10, then maybe Pouliot and Ryder were at Level 14, while Bourque is at Level 8.

    No matter how you slice it or where you place the blame, the line is a disaster.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    "I project every year on how many goals these guys will score and I think we have guys that can score. But every year I look for depth, and I'll continue to look for depth."

    "But now scoring depth projects a higher line of player than a third- or fourth-line player," he said. "We're in a position where we can add earlier so we're just trying to create our search, and we're starting our search earlier. That doesn't mean we're going to make any moves earlier, but we're looking earlier."

    With the way the third line has performed this season after chipping in with 47 goals last season (when the line was primarily made up of Chris Kelly, Rich Peverley and the now-departed Benoit Pouliot), one would think Chiarelli would be looking for a scoring boost there. After a 20-goal season in 2012-13, Kelly has struggled out of the gate . Meanwhile linemates Rich Peverley (2) and Chris Bourque have combined for just three goals"

     

    I don't think PC thought that Peverley and Kelly would produce like they did last year but he also didin't think the curve would go down so hard either. Chiarelli will be forced to ride it out for awhile becuase no one is taking Kelly or Peverley's ( a top 6 forward anywhere) contract(s). Then PC will have to change the new element whether you believe the new ingredient has made it worse or not.

    That quote was from last month February 22nd. Glad PC stayed out in front because the 3rd line is not going to right itself with Pandolfo nor Bourque.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    It's mostly an impression, but blaming Bourque and Peverley just doesn't explain Kelly's man being the guy banging in rebounds, Kelly's guy screwing him into the ice on a 3 on 3, Kelly's guy being the open man.  And he has the worst offensive instincts

     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from heyoo. Show heyoo's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Sorry but when paille was on the ice with Kelly and pevs he looked a class above them. Maybe we should stop making excuses for them and just say we got hosed with their contracts and only hope they improve. I doubt we bring in anyone of the guys we are all drooling over bcs we don't have the pieces to make it happen. We haven't got anything big for trade bait that we would sacrifice for a playoff player. Cj is not trading spooner, knight, subban or koko for a month of service for Alfie or iginla. I think Caron is our best hope to get Kelly and pevs out of their funk. Maybe the bruins win a cup off of their top two lines and the third line becomes an after thought, here is too dreaming. 

     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from WalkTheLine. Show WalkTheLine's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Kelly seems to be in a funk for sure. Moving Flounder off of his left wing might help but CK needs to get his head straight as well. Give the guy an NHL LW and some time and he'll be fine.

     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Peverley is the best offensive player on that line - which isn't saying a lot, but he is a guy who can make things happen with his speed, make the right play offensively, and help more gifted players finish.  Kelly, on the other hand, routinely gets confused when he has the puck on an odd man rush and finds himself behind the net with no play and no shot.  It's incredible, really.  If he's that awkward in that situation the play is...give the puck up to the other guy early and let him do something with it.  Not Kelly.

    Would he be better if Bourque was Seguin or Marchand?  Sure, in theory.  But that line's scoring totals haven't come from bang-bang plays.  It's been Peverley breaking down the D with speed, and then a lot of havoc once they get the puck to the net.  Kelly's getting beaten to the puck at both ends.  Not good.  Again, I think they'll turn it around, but if anyone is expecting Clowe (or whoever) to come in and make this engine go again, you might want to get Kelly off the rail first.

    DrCC - The only problem with the year to year variance in the case of the 4th line is that they play so much less than the third, so an extra goal against or two can make it seem like a huge step change when we're really only talking one goal.  I'm relying on the old thinking here - you know how I love conventional wisdom - that if you're not scoring, you sure as heck better be doing your job defensively.  And they're not.

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Against Montreal, Bourque was in the press box.  Why didn't this line tear it up?  On multiple other threads, when the moved Paille to the third line and they scored, it clearly showed that Bourque was the problem.

    Against Montreal, no Bourque, but the third line was still junk.

    I like Chris Kelly.  I want him to break out of this deep hole.  If not, see ya and thanks.  I'll cheer for you when you come back.

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Granted, this line evolves around Kelly, but he cannot be  responsible for TWO positions. He never knows where Bourque will be, and Pevs has the same problem. The 4th line does know where Thornton will be, but, Thorny doesn't have the skills to compete against other lines effectively. Loyalty to a good "trooper" is Ok unless it contributes to poor performances

     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011. Show StanleyCuptotheBruinsin2011's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Meanwhile in Providence


    24 Ryan Spooner 44GP 10G 30A 40Pts             49 Jamie Tardif 47GP 26G 11A 37Pts

     

     

     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from lucdufour. Show lucdufour's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    How bout this?  Trade for a Grade "A" talent with prospects/draft picks.  Move Seguin to Center, his natural position and put him with whatever Grade "A STUD" talent that was obtained, and then have 3 lines of offense, and one line of checking.

    Line 1:   Lucic, DK, Horton

    Line 2:   STUD, Seguin, ????

    Line 3:   Marchand, Bergeron, Peverley

    Line 4:   Kelly, Campbell, Paille, Thornton, CBourque

    Lines 1-3 are interchangeable and you always match up Bergeron's line against the other team's best unit.  This would be a major shift for a team that is in first place, however, something needs to be done about the third line.  Yes, the easier thing to do is to just trade for someone to play on the third line, BUT you still have the Kelly issue at center.  I always liked Kelly, but I do think he already hit his peak last year and is now on in the midst of his decline. 

     

     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from inflamedcolon. Show inflamedcolon's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    In response to lucdufour's comment:

    How bout this?  Trade for a Grade "A" talent with prospects/draft picks.  Move Seguin to Center, his natural position and put him with whatever Grade "A STUD" talent that was obtained, and then have 3 lines of offense, and one line of checking.

    Line 1:   Lucic, DK, Horton

    Line 2:   STUD, Seguin, ????

    Line 3:   Marchand, Bergeron, Peverley

    Line 4:   Kelly, Campbell, Paille, Thornton, CBourque

    Lines 1-3 are interchangeable and you always match up Bergeron's line against the other team's best unit.  This would be a major shift for a team that is in first place, however, something needs to be done about the third line.  Yes, the easier thing to do is to just trade for someone to play on the third line, BUT you still have the Kelly issue at center.  I always liked Kelly, but I do think he already hit his peak last year and is now on in the midst of his decline. 

     




    I've been thinking about the idea of moving CK to wing and Seguin to center, I just don't think CJ will do so, at least not until the offseason.  If Kelly continues to play like this for the rest of the season I think he and his $4mil cap hit should be bought out this summer, using the cap space on others.

     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Let's be clear...Seguin at Center will REDUCE his scoring chances. At least in the short term while he locks into the responsibilities that come with that position under Julien.

    Why are people in such a hurry to put him there?

    If you're set on shaking it up to shore up some weaknesses at the moment, that's fine...

    Lucic-Bergeron-Seguin

    Marchand-Krejci-Horton

    Kelly-Peverly-Paille

    Thornton-Campbell-Bourque

     

    Bergeron could help get Lucic going more consistently each night, Marchand can finish Krejci's set ups just fine, take the pressure off Kelly a bit and let Peverly run pivot and put Bourque where he should be.

     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Kelly, Peverly need to step up, but I agree that they get all the time in the world (or in this case how bout 5 more games) to get it together. Peverly did score v. Montreal. I think both are valuable playoff performers. No offense to Shawn Thornton or Greg Campbell, but they only offer so much. They are not going to pick you up on offense, but they will in other areas. I think Campbell has been playing well, I wish he could score more though. 

     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    In response to Not-A-Shot's comment:

    Against Montreal, Bourque was in the press box.  Why didn't this line tear it up?  On multiple other threads, when the moved Paille to the third line and they scored, it clearly showed that Bourque was the problem.

    Against Montreal, no Bourque, but the third line was still junk.

    I like Chris Kelly.  I want him to break out of this deep hole.  If not, see ya and thanks.  I'll cheer for you when you come back.




    Looks like CJ and/or PC have spoken. Bourque is soon to be gone.....

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Bookboy007. Show Bookboy007's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Under no circumstances do you break up Bergeron and Marchand right now.

    Put Seguin with Lucic in Toronto.  That usually works.

     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from heyoo. Show heyoo's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    Why would you move seguin you would be breaking up the best line in hockey. Ill take my chances on trading for a one year filler and hope he turns it around for the third line. Next season the third line will have some great prospects fighting for the spot. Camara, spooner, knight if he can stay healthy, koko and Caron. 

     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from asmaha. Show asmaha's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    In response to heyoo's comment:

    Why would you move seguin you would be breaking up the best line in hockey. Ill take my chances on trading for a one year filler and hope he turns it around for the third line. Next season the third line will have some great prospects fighting for the spot. Camara, spooner, knight if he can stay healthy, koko and Caron. 



    Because I think Marchand's success has less to do with Bergeron than Lucic's and Horton's struggles have to do with Krejci. Just an opinion...

     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from SanDogBrewin. Show SanDogBrewin's posts

    Re: The Kelly problem

    $3M a piece on Kelly and Peverley, that they are allowed to work themselves out of this funk.

     

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