The next Chara/Myers?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    The next Chara/Myers?

    From ESPN Insider.

    The biggest prospect in the 2011 entry draft, Jamieson Oleksiak, is arguably the most intriguing.

    This guy is 6-foot-7 (maybe 6-foot-8), north of 240 pounds, and plays defense at Northeastern; where he lands and when he goes in the draft will be interesting because it might indicate a trend in the league -- are teams going to put a greater premium on extreme height in propects? Think about Zdeno Chara or Tyler Myers in this regard.

    Usually the word "raw" is attached and a long, gradual development curve is presumed when you're talking about guys this tall; Chara and Meyers debunked that, but it's still the prevailing notion.

    In one junior season after leaving Europe, Chara was unpolished on D -- but a force without the puck. Myers' improvement was even more dramatic; he struggled at the world juniors in Jan '09 but four months later he might have been the best D in major junior, leading Kelowna to the Memorial Cup final.

    So where does that leave us on Oleksiak?

    He's more comparable in stature to Chara -- both at 18 were tall and thick; but for reasons of hockey background Oleksiak is better compared to Myers. Both grew up with the North American game and both played for the US at the Ivan Hlinka summer tournament. (Myers ended up playing U20 for Canada and Oleksiak would seem to be eligible to do the same with Toronto as his listed birthplace.)

    Here's one scout with two recent viewings of Oleksiak:

    "The key questions you have to make for a player like this are: Can he turn? How does he handle speed? At this stage Oleksiak is probably a little behind where Myers was on that count -- Myers was painfully skinny but he was a good if not fluid skayer -- but Oleksiak isn't that far behind. Myers will probably have an advantage in the north-south speed but that's not the big part of this evaluation. This kid will be a first-rounder and Myers's success will help him. How much? If you said the second ten (of the draft) you'd have a good chance of him being in that range."

    If he's not Myers, can Oleksiak be Hal Gill? Gill was effective in the NHL pre-lockout with the new rules/enforcement on obstruction. But after a couple of rough season Gill figured out how to adapt; in body type and skills set Gill might be a better role model for Oleksiak than Myers.

    The aforementioned scout said that Oleksiak made a good choice in going to Northeastern:

    "A player with that sort of frame needs to build strength and fill out. It's hard for major junior kids to do the gym work in season but college kids can with just games on weekends. The Northeastern program is good for getting kids to the gym year-round. You can see that (Oleksiak) has made real progress from one year (in the USHL) to the next (as a freshman) on conditioning."

    Oleksiak is, by height and physical maturity, a different case -- and someone who passed over Myers might not want to make the same mistake again. If there's anything hurting him, it's the notion that a second-pairing defender -- which might be his upside -- can be found on the cheap in free agency and shouldn't be a high first-round guy. Regardless, though, his stock is certainly trending up.

     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Not-A-Shot. Show Not-A-Shot's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    Valabik is pretty tall.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from I-Like-Hockey. Show I-Like-Hockey's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    In Response to The next Chara/Myers?:
    [QUOTE]From ESPN Insider. The biggest prospect in the 2011 entry draft, Jamieson Oleksiak, is arguably the most intriguing. This guy is 6-foot-7 (maybe 6-foot-8), north of 240 pounds, and plays defense at Northeastern; where he lands and when he goes in the draft will be interesting because it might indicate a trend in the league -- are teams going to put a greater premium on extreme height in propects? Think about Zdeno Chara or Tyler Myers in this regard. Usually the word "raw" is attached and a long, gradual development curve is presumed when you're talking about guys this tall; Chara and Meyers debunked that, but it's still the prevailing notion. In one junior season after leaving Europe, Chara was unpolished on D -- but a force without the puck. Myers' improvement was even more dramatic; he struggled at the world juniors in Jan '09 but four months later he might have been the best D in major junior, leading Kelowna to the Memorial Cup final. So where does that leave us on Oleksiak? He's more comparable in stature to Chara -- both at 18 were tall and thick; but for reasons of hockey background Oleksiak is better compared to Myers. Both grew up with the North American game and both played for the US at the Ivan Hlinka summer tournament. (Myers ended up playing U20 for Canada and Oleksiak would seem to be eligible to do the same with Toronto as his listed birthplace.) Here's one scout with two recent viewings of Oleksiak: "The key questions you have to make for a player like this are: Can he turn? How does he handle speed? At this stage Oleksiak is probably a little behind where Myers was on that count -- Myers was painfully skinny but he was a good if not fluid skayer -- but Oleksiak isn't that far behind. Myers will probably have an advantage in the north-south speed but that's not the big part of this evaluation. This kid will be a first-rounder and Myers's success will help him. How much? If you said the second ten (of the draft) you'd have a good chance of him being in that range." If he's not Myers, can Oleksiak be Hal Gill ? Gill was effective in the NHL pre-lockout with the new rules/enforcement on obstruction. But after a couple of rough season Gill figured out how to adapt; in body type and skills set Gill might be a better role model for Oleksiak than Myers. The aforementioned scout said that Oleksiak made a good choice in going to Northeastern: "A player with that sort of frame needs to build strength and fill out. It's hard for major junior kids to do the gym work in season but college kids can with just games on weekends. The Northeastern program is good for getting kids to the gym year-round. You can see that (Oleksiak) has made real progress from one year (in the USHL) to the next (as a freshman) on conditioning." Oleksiak is, by height and physical maturity, a different case -- and someone who passed over Myers might not want to make the same mistake again. If there's anything hurting him, it's the notion that a second-pairing defender -- which might be his upside -- can be found on the cheap in free agency and shouldn't be a high first-round guy. Regardless, though, his stock is certainly trending up.
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    Interesting Post DC.  I think that with the big guys, once they get it they're golden. To this point Valabik hasnt quite gotten it yet but look at Chara. A role model for that type of defenseman.

    Then again to have Hal Gil listed as someone who should be his role model it might make me doubt if the skill level of a chara/myers would be there. Any indication on where in the first round hes expected to go?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from shuperman. Show shuperman's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    Yonkman is 6 6 as well and brutal.  Height is fine if you can skate like Myers or be a physical beast like Chara or even a solid stay at home type like Gill.  Lots of tall guys...but height doesnt get you in the NHL
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Tuckerw3. Show Tuckerw3's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    Looks like in mock drafts they have him going around 18th so you bring up an interesting point because he seems like the type of a player that you maybe trade down to get
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from islamorada. Show islamorada's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    In Response to The next Chara/Myers?:
    [QUOTE]From ESPN Insider. The biggest prospect in the 2011 entry draft, Jamieson Oleksiak, is arguably the most intriguing. This guy is 6-foot-7 (maybe 6-foot-8), north of 240 pounds, and plays defense at Northeastern; where he lands and when he goes in the draft will be interesting because it might indicate a trend in the league -- are teams going to put a greater premium on extreme height in propects? Think about Zdeno Chara or Tyler Myers in this regard. Usually the word "raw" is attached and a long, gradual development curve is presumed when you're talking about guys this tall; Chara and Meyers debunked that, but it's still the prevailing notion. In one junior season after leaving Europe, Chara was unpolished on D -- but a force without the puck. Myers' improvement was even more dramatic; he struggled at the world juniors in Jan '09 but four months later he might have been the best D in major junior, leading Kelowna to the Memorial Cup final. So where does that leave us on Oleksiak? He's more comparable in stature to Chara -- both at 18 were tall and thick; but for reasons of hockey background Oleksiak is better compared to Myers. Both grew up with the North American game and both played for the US at the Ivan Hlinka summer tournament. (Myers ended up playing U20 for Canada and Oleksiak would seem to be eligible to do the same with Toronto as his listed birthplace.) Here's one scout with two recent viewings of Oleksiak: "The key questions you have to make for a player like this are: Can he turn? How does he handle speed? At this stage Oleksiak is probably a little behind where Myers was on that count -- Myers was painfully skinny but he was a good if not fluid skayer -- but Oleksiak isn't that far behind. Myers will probably have an advantage in the north-south speed but that's not the big part of this evaluation. This kid will be a first-rounder and Myers's success will help him. How much? If you said the second ten (of the draft) you'd have a good chance of him being in that range." If he's not Myers, can Oleksiak be Hal Gill ? Gill was effective in the NHL pre-lockout with the new rules/enforcement on obstruction. But after a couple of rough season Gill figured out how to adapt; in body type and skills set Gill might be a better role model for Oleksiak than Myers. The aforementioned scout said that Oleksiak made a good choice in going to Northeastern: "A player with that sort of frame needs to build strength and fill out. It's hard for major junior kids to do the gym work in season but college kids can with just games on weekends. The Northeastern program is good for getting kids to the gym year-round. You can see that (Oleksiak) has made real progress from one year (in the USHL) to the next (as a freshman) on conditioning." Oleksiak is, by height and physical maturity, a different case -- and someone who passed over Myers might not want to make the same mistake again. If there's anything hurting him, it's the notion that a second-pairing defender -- which might be his upside -- can be found on the cheap in free agency and shouldn't be a high first-round guy. Regardless, though, his stock is certainly trending up.
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    Thanks for the info dc.

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    In Response to Re: The next Chara/Myers?:
    [QUOTE]Valabik is pretty tall.
    Posted by Not-A-Shot[/QUOTE]

    Haha, I seriously thought of naming this post: The next Chara/Myers/Valabik
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from PheltSaucier. Show PheltSaucier's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    You had me until you brought up Hal Gill. Any player compared to Gill should impale himself.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    In Response to Re: The next Chara/Myers?:
    [QUOTE]You had me until you brought up Hal Gill. Any player compared to Gill should impale himself.
    Posted by PheltSaucier[/QUOTE]

    1) I did not write this article

    2) Gill is a cup winner, team leader, and solid stay at home d-man
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from KrayzieJoe. Show KrayzieJoe's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    I prefer a 6'1-6'4 D that can skate and move the puck
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    Got to agree with NAS. Both Valabik, Jurcina and many others have been given the Chara-esque tag since Zdeno's emergence. Everyone always try to emulate success....
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bogie6. Show bogie6's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    Tall and large is interesting, but look at the results. It Took Chara 5 or 6 years to become effective; Myers was a suprise as a rookie, but has not been that outstanding; Hal Gill finally started to play well in pittsburgh, and has continued to be solid in Montreal. Becoming effective on defense does take time, and capable, fast skaters have the advantage. It also helps to be very intelligent. Many big guys are physical, but make many mistakes in handling the puck. Guess i would rather have a Seabrook or Weber, or Bourque.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jmwalters. Show jmwalters's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    In Response to Re: The next Chara/Myers?:
    [QUOTE]Tall and large is interesting, but look at the results. It Took Chara 5 or 6 years to become effective; Myers was a suprise as a rookie, but has not been that outstanding; Hal Gill finally started to play well in pittsburgh, and has continued to be solid in Montreal. Becoming effective on defense does take time, and capable, fast skaters have the advantage. It also helps to be very intelligent. Many big guys are physical, but make many mistakes in handling the puck. Guess i would rather have a Seabrook or Weber, or Bourque.
    Posted by bogie6[/QUOTE]

    His slow development may have been less to do with him personally then the Isles attempt to make him into a goon. Is there any worse place to go as a rookie then there?....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    Yonkman and Gill were not drafted in the top 20 overall.  Valabik was drafted after one year of junior hockey (which turned out to be his best year).  We can all name tall guys who aren't good, but I think the point of this article is that Oleksiak is regarded highly enough by scouts that he is expected to be taken in the first round.  Scouts have had a much better look at him than they did at Valabik before the draft, so I am assuming that people believe he can skate and move pretty well.


    I was disappointed that he was cut from the US WJC team after going to the camp (final round of cuts I believe).  Haven't had a chance to watch Northeastern yet this year, so who knows...

     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from NOT2REGRET. Show NOT2REGRET's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    This kid isnt coming out of nowhere , people have been looking at him as a serious prospect for a while now. I agree that there is always a rush to compare to Z , as well there should be. If the trash doesnt get taken out people blame Z. Take him out of our line up and see how our D/team are. This guy is a difference maker , that gets picked b/c he's bigger. Giving up a goal is giving up a goal , it means no difference to me how "Z" or anyone D-man looks when the commit the mistake. They made it , it happened move on w/ it. Fact is people give this guy no respect ... at all ... Is this kid Z/Myers , who knows. His potential is there , if he works hard at building " hockey body" , out of his frame , keeps on skating and knows that his size is his biggest asset ... and not forget that he'll atleast be a player in league.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    Before any of you, apparently illiterate, morons message me, realize that I DID NOT WRITE THIS ARTICLE!!!!!!

    I am strongly considering not positing any other ESPN insider message on this board....you would think that in a town with the greatest universities in the world, the citizenry would be able to read and comprehend a post at a 5th grade level...
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    I don't know that Chara really Debunked the idea that players that tall are Raw, or take a long time to develop.. Drafted in 96 didnt play a full time season till 2000-2001.. And was traded..
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    Who thinks you wrote the article?  It seemed clear enough to me that you were passing along something from ESPN...
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    In Response to Re: The next Chara/Myers?:
    [QUOTE]Who thinks you wrote the article?  It seemed clear enough to me that you were passing along something from ESPN...
    Posted by Fletcher1[/QUOTE]

    Haha, I know. I thought, "From ESPN Insider" would be enough to get that point across, but apparently, no.

    In the entire time I have been registered, prior to this post, I've had 1 pm. Since this post, and direclty related ot this one, I've had 8 (actually 8!! 800% more!!) saying I am an idiot for comparing one tall player with another
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from Chowdahkid-. Show Chowdahkid-'s posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    In Response to Re: The next Chara/Myers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The next Chara/Myers? : Haha, I know. I thought, "From ESPN Insider" would be enough to get that point across, but apparently, no. In the entire time I have been registered, prior to this post, I've had 1 pm. Since this post, and direclty related ot this one, I've had 8 (actually 8!! 800% more!!) saying I am an idiot for comparing one tall player with another
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    Who started that comparison ?
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Fletcher1. Show Fletcher1's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    In Response to Re: The next Chara/Myers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The next Chara/Myers? : Haha, I know. I thought, "From ESPN Insider" would be enough to get that point across, but apparently, no. In the entire time I have been registered, prior to this post, I've had 1 pm. Since this post, and direclty related ot this one, I've had 8 (actually 8!! 800% more!!) saying I am an idiot for comparing one tall player with another
    Posted by dc-bruins-fan[/QUOTE]

    Ahhh, I see.  I've never gotten a pm here...didn't even know you could...weird.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from PINEwarmer. Show PINEwarmer's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    Like many B's fans, I never warmed to Gill in Boston. Agreed with prevailing belief that a guy that big should be crushing people into the boards all night. As one poster said, he has a Stanaley Cup ring, is considered a top notch shut down defensemen, and is still in the league after 13 seasons averaging 75+ games a season. I may not have appreciated his skills in Boston, but it's obvious that some GM's consider him a valuable asset. For a 8th round pick, he has had a fairly successful NHL career. The comparison was about how willing Oleksian was to work on developing his NHL game and that is a valid question about his future.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from dc-bruins-fan. Show dc-bruins-fan's posts

    Re: The next Chara/Myers?

    In Response to Re: The next Chara/Myers?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: The next Chara/Myers? : Who started that comparison ?
    Posted by Chowdahkid-[/QUOTE]

    Whomever wrote that article for ESPN. Me= messenger.
     

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