Re: Thoughts from Montreal
posted at 3/13/2011 10:29 PM EDT
In Response to Re: Thoughts from Montreal
[QUOTE]So you're from New-Brunswick ? hahaha, I'm from Bathurst. Where are you from in NB ? Ok, maybe I owe you a little more attention to the points you've been bringing. First off, you dismiss cultural issues as if they were irrelevant. Culture historically defines what is acceptable and unacceptable among a given group of humans. "Don't you dare make this a cultural issue", you said... Was that a threat ? lol... You said : "In Montreal, the uproar was laughably childish [...] In fact Montreal's response to the rest of hockey world is a akin to that of a high spirited retarded nephew." I've heard and read tons of similar comments. And you all seem to agree on that. And most of us think otherwise. How do you explain that if not stemming from the fact that such a behavior or such a reaction is considered unacceptable in one culture, whereas in the other, no one seems to realize that it is. Your culture is reacting to us in a way that we didn't expect, and we reacted in a way that you guys would have never allowed yourself. Firm beliefs, on both sides, that the others are a bunch of idiots is partly and directly linked to culture. And the more different the culture, the more relevant these issues are. I was in Haiti after the earthquake, and I had a good laugh observing some of the other medical teams (most of the help came from the US) try to put their logic in the heads of Haitians. You're english-canadian, and others on this board are Americans, you've spent most of your life as "the ruling majority"... it might be harder for you to relate to the experience of having to deal with other cultures... I don't know... Seems like you don't want to admit this for some reasons. If logic worked the same way in every languages, we wouldn't be having this discussion. You're deeply convinced that Montreal's reaction was wrong, and you don't realize that your reaction is culture specific and tied to your set of beliefs. You're also deeply convinced that your way of thinking should have been followed by the whinning baby frogs. We don't agree with you. How do you solve that ? It would be convenient to you that we took out cultural issues, 'cause then, without a doubt, we'd be wrong. But here, we're right. See ? There's no way out of this. And all your blah blah comes from your own overreaction to us, except for the fact that you're givin' it your best shot in making this a logical issue. Oh... and the same is true for us. We haven't been taking into account that what we've been doing might not be well perceived outside our border. And that whole culturally bound reaction to each other has been taking center stage since the incident. "Another undeniable Universal Truth..." If you're stuck with that notion of "Universal Truth", than I'm losing considerable time here. You keep saying the league is moving forward. I know what the NHL has been doing over the last few years. I KNOW they have put some things in place. I KNOW, ok ? Stop bringing that up over and over. I'm saying they haven't done anything significant. Nothing they've done, 'till now, has had significant results on players security. And the business of hockey has never been healthier than now. Honestly, do you really think they will do anything significant that would represent a risk of losing money ? The very fact that we've been talking so much about it represents money. There's no talking way out of this. Morbid voyeurism is not limited to the non-frenchies... I haven't said that ! It's a real problem here as well. "Yes...you'll try things that "won't come to my mind"....you've proven that all right...but that comment, intended to be condesending to me...and quite becoming to you...glares additional light on your lack of self awareness, as well as like minded people on this issue." You're just being paranoid there when you say that it's meant to be condescending to you and becoming to me. I'm quite self aware, as that comment was meant to take into account that we're different cultures and the things we've done wouldn't have come to your mind as a thinkable way of behaving. I didn't say superior... It meant different. You're being a little thin skinned there... I told you before what's the point you're missing. You think this problem can change in a rational, logical, civilized way. I'm saying there's absolutely no way it's going to change like that, but you don't want to hear that. The day it changes, it will be emotional... it will be a sad day... It hasn't gone far enough now... I thought it came close, but I'm beginning to think it didn't. The more you do what you idealize as being the right thing to do, the more you put money in owners pockets and the less likely you are to help. There are two ways out of this : (1) this problem is linked to diminished profits, which for now it isn't (Air Canada's try was quite weak and they didn't back their words with actions yet) ; (2) a player's death, with the accompanying horror, crying families, disgust, and all that... But now... nothing... unless Geoff Molson has the guts to tell the NHL his brewery wants its 750 million $ back. But days are passing by, and I don't think anything significant will happen... It would be against logic.
Posted by Wedgy-Dunlop[/QUOTE]
I don't "dismiss" cultural issues. You're merely attempting to further muddy the water here...cuz you're having no success otherwise.
Calling 911 over a hockey call is irresponsible in any culture. Assuming a wishy washy government(from any jurisdiction) will make things better, is a stupid idea that could, and has been put forth by both cultures, so it's not "culture specific", and again, dumb in the context of either culture.
Your assumption that French Canada sees no problem with shenanigans, and the rest of the English world does...is also incorrect. It's not a French English thing. It's not a cultural thing. It's merely the creation of hysteria by illogical blind sports homers. Taken a step further...the only francophones that potentially support you are Hab fans. Many Francophones disagree with you, and many English Hab fans agree with you, so that pretty much eliminates the culture card.
Most cultures have an issue with murder. If a person jumps off a cliff... vs gets pushed off ,,...there's a difference. Yes...they're both dead....but you deal with both situations differently. Your thoughts up to this point, suggest you have a hard time understanding that very basic differentiation.
And no..I wasn't making a threat. You know that ! I was merely pleading for sensibility. The crux of your original argument has been decimated, and introducing culture as any kind of validation doesn't fly. Not because I don't understand cultural nuances....but because I do.
The overall fiscal health of the NHL has no bearing whatsoever with what we're talking about here. What ever posessed you to bring that up now? Why would increased player safety hurt their bottom line? If done right...it could quite possibly increase things.
You bring up colorful examples of potential death in the game. Please write down your thoughts on these, if you would be so kind.
I mentioned in detail Savards latest 2, very serious concussions. That speaks directly to your self proclaimed passion. They don't involve Hab players, so it should make you even more objective. What didn't the league do correctly there? What do you think should have happenned?
What if, when diving for a puck, a player became nearly decpaitated by a skate(maybe 2)...and agonizingly died in a squirting pool of blood in front of 20,000 people. It could happen, almost surprising it hasn't yet. In any event....what would you do regarding this most terrible example of violence ?