timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrVmax. Show MrVmax's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]Here's a question for the older folks? Whatever happened to Ross Brooks? The guy was a 36-38 yr old rookie in 72-73. Tied an NHL record of 14 consective wins, which I believe Gillies Gilbert did as well. He retired in 76, but his numbers were all respectable. Did he get injured to cause the retirement?
    Posted by nitemare-38[/QUOTE]
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from MrVmax. Show MrVmax's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    Found this info on Ross Brooks, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Brooks

    Thanks Wikipedia.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from jman4. Show jman4's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    Show me the money

    Where are the playoff wins ?

    Where are the cup wins ?

    I really like Tim, but not be best ever the way I see it

    Go B's 
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from biggskye. Show biggskye's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

       A player does not need to be on a cup winning team, to be considered a great player.
    Is Matt Cooke a better player that Gilbert Perreault, Marcel Dionne, Cam Neely, to name a few, because he has a ring, and they don't?
    TEAMS WIN CUPS, NOT INDIVIDUAL PLAYERS.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    From a purely sensational, show-stopping point of view, Thomas is certainly one of the best in B's history. But I do agree with others that he is going to have to go far in the playoffs to solidify a high ranking in all-time goalies. He is in a goalie age era for hockey where a bad GAVG is 2.5.

    I'm absolutely sick and tired of the Gerry Cheevers' bashing that goes on constantly from people who obviously never watched him in a lot of big games. Cheesie had some remarkable, absolutely fantastic big-time playoff wins and performances even in defeats. He had smaller pads, a lousy fiberglass mask (the best ever for appearance with the famous stitches), and played among the elite players in NHL history during a time where only elite players made it to the NHL.

    Are the players better today? Sure from a physical standpoint, speed, agility. But overall, half of the league's current players never would have made it into the NHL. There were no room on the rosters.

    Cheevers was to me a big-game goalie. He understood playoffs was where he had to play at his best, and that's when he played at his best.

    Pete Peeters monster season of 82-83 was ridiculously good at a time where goalies were lucky to be recording 3.00 GAVG. For one year, he was a rock for the B's. Dafoe was acrobatic too, and phenomenal in his 10 shutout year, and he reminds me of Thomas now.

    I can't vouch for Brimsek, Tiny Thompson, great goalies in their own rights.

    Bottom line, I can't make greatest goalie statements for TT at this time. He's a great, great goalie, having some phenomenal years (2 years ago) and now. But he's also had some major meltdowns and famously bad performances, like in Washington a few years back. He's had some soft playoff games too. I would like to see him perform his magic in the playoffs before we anoint him King of the Crease in Boston.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from scooter244. Show scooter244's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    Just short the Conn Smythe.  With that I will anoint him. 
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]Lets not even get into the Bs system which is very goalie friendly. Byron Dafoe had some success under a goalie friendly system with Pat Burns as well.
    Posted by Newfiebullet[/QUOTE]

    That's  like saying Hasek had success in Buffalo once he left Chicago because of the system.

    It works both ways.

    Dafoe also did well, post Burns.  2001-2002 and 2003-2004 to be  more specific.

    At the end of the day, goalies here will be judged by the Cup, not strong regular seasons and consistency. 

    I think we can all agree on that statement.  This is why Thomas is no better than Andy Moog, other than winning a Vezina.  Same with Dafoe, in recent years.

    Heck, Dafoe came in 2nd place in Vezina voting in '98/'99 to a HOFer in Hasek.  He also was the backbone of the resurgence in 1997/'98 when he beat out Jim Carey in that early season road trip on the West Coast.

    In the end, he'll be the scapegoat for those teams, but he was very good.

    Dafoe was a victim of horrendous personnel management and an outdated defensive philosophy via Mike O'Connell.  He was behind the slow footed, mediocre D Men who acted as turnstiles.  How many 2 and 3 save plays did we see where the D Men either didn't clear anyone out or didn't clear the puck?

    I can't think of really any transitional/skating defensemen that played in front of Dafoe, post Bourque.  What. Sergei Gonchar for 2 months in late 2004? How many clearing passes or outlet passes failed in front of Dafoe under the Ftorek and Mike Sullivan?

    Too many to count.  That was the reason for the collapses to Montreal in those series.

    Peter Popovich, Sean O'Donnell, Hal Gill, Kyle McLaren, etc. Not really the bulk of a D Men group you'd want skating in front of you in this era's NHL.

    I mean, look at the 2001/2002 roster. How on earth did they even get such a high seed?

    http://espn.starwave.com/nhl/rosters/bos.html

    In terms of technique/style, I think Thomas is an anamoly while Dafoe is a little more traditional in the techincal sense.  He was quick and could get to post to post very well.  Thomas is good at this, too, but Thomas is also bigger/plays bigger.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]From a purely sensational, show-stopping point of view, Thomas is certainly one of the best in B's history. But I do agree with others that he is going to have to go far in the playoffs to solidify a high ranking in all-time goalies. He is in a goalie age era for hockey where a bad GAVG is 2.5. I'm absolutely sick and tired of the Gerry Cheevers' bashing that goes on constantly from people who obviously never watched him in a lot of big games. Cheesie had some remarkable, absolutely fantastic big-time playoff wins and performances even in defeats. He had smaller pads, a lousy fiberglass mask (the best ever for appearance with the famous stitches), and played among the elite players in NHL history during a time where only elite players made it to the NHL. Are the players better today? Sure from a physical standpoint, speed, agility. But overall, half of the league's current players never would have made it into the NHL. There were no room on the rosters. Cheevers was to me a big-game goalie. He understood playoffs was where he had to play at his best, and that's when he played at his best. Pete Peeters monster season of 82-83 was ridiculously good at a time where goalies were lucky to be recording 3.00 GAVG. For one year, he was a rock for the B's. Dafoe was acrobatic too, and phenomenal in his 10 shutout year, and he reminds me of Thomas now. I can't vouch for Brimsek, Tiny Thompson, great goalies in their own rights. Bottom line, I can't make greatest goalie statements for TT at this time. He's a great, great goalie, having some phenomenal years (2 years ago) and now. But he's also had some major meltdowns and famously bad performances, like in Washington a few years back. He's had some soft playoff games too. I would like to see him perform his magic in the playoffs before we anoint him King of the Crease in Boston.
    Posted by dannycater[/QUOTE]

    Cheevers was a money goalie. For this reason alone, he's one of the best and remains the most tangible "best" since Brimsek in the early 1940s. Sad, but true.

    I admit I am confused as to why Sawchuk was ever allowed to return to Detroit.  I get he was a drunk, but so was Cheevers.

    Anyone know why he was let go from the Bruins in the late 50s? Jacobs didn't own the team then, so we know it wasn't money. haha

    Here's a guy who would have been beloved here if not for the "too many men" game in May of '79:

    Gilles Gilbert

    Very good goalie and a very good career. If that penalty never happened, he's a top 5 Bruins goalie.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history : I'm a HUGE Moog fan....but I gotta put Thomas ahead of him.  I don't recall Andy playing at THIS kind of level.  Other than that switch, I like your list.
    Posted by jalvis[/QUOTE]

    I agree, except I think the pre lock out ('94) era's game was way more wide open with much more of an open game and higher scoring, so Moog's stats, or really any goalie's stats in the 1980s and into the early 1990s, are misleading.

    Many goalies were left on their own in that era. Look at Grant Fuhr's numbers. Not so great.  But, he was great, especially when the playoffs rolled around.

    Moog was fantastic from '89/'90 right through '92'/'93 when Sinden dealt him away because, what else is new, he was due a new contract and Moog was a player rep.

    Jon Casey couldn't hold Moog's jock strap, yet Sinden tried to sell everyone on that.   Moog was terrible in the '92/'93 1st round, but so was the whole team, not just him.  That was a typical Jacobs/Sinden scapegoat move.

    I almost put Thomas above Moog, but I feel Moog could have won a Vezina and just didn't.  Belfour had that monster year in '90/'91 and couldn't be touched.  The year before, Roy won it and was on fire, but Moog was in the mix. Moog at least helped Boston into 3 Conf Finals and one Cup Final.

    Moog was as close to a money goalie as Boston has had since Cheevers or maybe Gilles, when you think about it.

    http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=3781

    I can totally see Thomas entering "money goalie" category this year, by the way. I think he is, he just needs to get another crack at it.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    Danny,
    2.5 is not a bad GAA, its mid pack.. perfectly acceptable as a starter..
    Red, your correct that thomas could play his way into the HOF, he doesnt even need a bower type run, simply a hasek run, to remain the starter on a strong team, and to win a couple cups. if he plays till 41 it could certainly happen, the issue is the game is different in the cap era where teams want to develop younger cheaper options. Look how many on this board want rask to play simply because "thomas is 36"..
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    Thomas reminds me of Mike Richter in that he seemed to get better with age.  Richter seemed to improve as time went by.

    Hasek would be the obvious choice for this kind of a thing, or someone else mentioned, Johnny Bower, but Thomas seems to be one of those goalies who gets more crafty as he ages.


     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from moogfan35. Show moogfan35's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history : I agree, except I think the pre lock out ('94) era's game was way more wide open with much more of an open game and higher scoring, so Moog's stats, or really any goalie's stats in the 1980s and into the early 1990s, are misleading. Many goalies were left on their own in that era. Look at Grant Fuhr's numbers. Not so great.  But, he was great, especially when the playoffs rolled around. Moog was fantastic from '89/'90 right through '92'/'93 when Sinden dealt him away because, what else is new, he was due a new contract and Moog was a player rep. Jon Casey couldn't hold Moog's jock strap, yet Sinden tried to sell everyone on that.   Moog was terrible in the '92/'93 1st round, but so was the whole team, not just him.  That was a typical Jacobs/Sinden scapegoat move. I almost put Thomas above Moog, but I feel Moog could have won a Vezina and just didn't.  Belfour had that monster year in '90/'91 and couldn't be touched.  The year before, Roy won it and was on fire, but Moog was in the mix. Moog at least helped Boston into 3 Conf Finals and one Cup Final. Moog was as close to a money goalie as Boston has had since Cheevers or maybe Gilles, when you think about it. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=3781 I can totally see Thomas entering "money goalie" category this year, by the way. I think he is, he just needs to get another crack at it.
    Posted by BBReigns[/QUOTE]


    BBReigns - thats 2 cup finals :)  And I dont feel it was sinden that moved him out as much as the fact that he didnt get along with Sutter, do you remember when Sutter had both Moog and Lemelin's bags left in the hall?  I agree that they tried hard to sell the move was a lateral move, but no way no how was it. We even had to give up Gord Murphy in that deal.   Regardless, I dont feel thomas breaks the top 5 of bruins great goaltenders , atleast not yet imo, I feel you need to have success in the playoffs to be included in that talk
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    BBR-
    I think hasek might be the better analysis, i agree with the ricther comparision strongly, but from memory dont remember a time when he was the best goalie in the game..  but his career may stake up similarly as having been a very good goalie, but not great.

    Hasek I think the ages are similar, the playing styles certainly are, and hasek was arguable the top goalie for a couple years..so the question is what does thomas do from here?
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

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    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history : BBReigns - thats 2 cup finals :)  And I dont feel it was sinden that moved him out as much as the fact that he didnt get along with Sutter, do you remember when Sutter had both Moog and Lemelin's bags left in the hall?  I agree that they tried hard to sell the move was a lateral move, but no way no how was it. We even had to give up Gord Murphy in that deal.   Regardless, I dont feel thomas breaks the top 5 of bruins great goaltenders , atleast not yet imo, I feel you need to have success in the playoffs to be included in that talk
    Posted by moogfan35[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, I sort of give Lemelin the nod for '87/'88 since Moog came over so late that season and Reggie wrestled the starting role away from Moog to lead the team into the postseason.

    Remember the pathetic Galley to Philly for Murphy?  Ugh. I have a feeling this thread will just make me start thinking back as to what could have been and thinking how many players Sinden dtiched because it was time to pay/extend their contracts.  Ugh.

    Agree, on Thomas. That's why I put him at #5 for now.  I almost put Gilles at 5, but I was too young to really remember him play.

    Gilles and Dafoe are picking up the rear on the top 5 list, but Thomas has to be breaking into it now, especially if he walks to another Vezina.

    I also think he's poised to lead the team into a Conf Final.


     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

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    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]BBR- I think hasek might be the better analysis, i agree with the ricther comparision strongly, but from memory dont remember a time when he was the best goalie in the game..  but his career may stake up similarly as having been a very good goalie, but not great. Hasek I think the ages are similar, the playing styles certainly are, and hasek was arguable the top goalie for a couple years..so the question is what does thomas do from here?
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]

    I think it was dangerous overpay Thomas, but if he leads the team to a Cup, then clearly it's irrelevant.

    For whatever reason, some players get better with age because they are intelligent and know how to offest some physical weaknesses with said intelligence/experience.

    We'll see.



     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from joeharley. Show joeharley's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    tim thomas is a very lucky goalie....he needs to play more stand up hockey and stop flounddering around on the ice like a fish out of water and stay on his feet to stay in position...he would be a much better net minder if he would go back to basic fundamental goal tending
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from bigvig. Show bigvig's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    I think a lot of people are missing the point:

    As far as ability, style, game, athletic ability, etc., Thomas is arguably the best goalie the Bruins have ever had.  I cant think of anyone who has matched Timmys athletic ability and ability to make a play on the puck, which makes him the best goalie in history.  Sure, there have been goalies who have done more for the Bruins (over MUCH longer careers) but that doesnt mean they were better goalies.  Now, Im not saying he is definitely the best they ever had, NOBODY can make a fair comparison since we have only been bruins since since what, the 50's a the earliest, and the different eras and styles there have been.  Ive only been following the Bruins since 1980, so thats all I have to go by, but in that time there hasnt been anyone as good.

    Saying that he hasnt won a cup, blah, blah, blah isnt a fair comparison.  That would be like saying Thornton was equally as good a forward as Kovalchuck because he had as many goals as him earlier this season.  People can have bad seasons and still be better/the best.  Timmy was hurt last year and had a bad year, yes.  That doesnt discount what he has done here before or since. 

    In the last 3 years he has been nominated to 3 straight All-Star games (back-to-back-to-back because there wasnt one last year).  He won BOTH in 2008 & 2009.  In 2009 he won the Jennings, Crozier AND Vezina trophies and in 2010 he won a silver medal in the Olympics.  He is also a shoe-in for the Vezina right now. 

    To say he isnt one of the best, let alone top 5 all time is really ridiculous and based solely on the fact that he has only played 295 games (started 284) and hasnt gone past the second round of the playoffs.  Thats pretty short-sighted when you consider what he has done in such a short time, and at such an older age.  The guy is phenomenal and has EASILY been the leagues best goalie since the 2008 season.
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from rolerhoky19. Show rolerhoky19's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    Joe,
    you dont get lucky for a career..
    He is not a butterfly goalie, rask is..
    And I would argue position cuts your risk it doesnt make you better.. the object is stopping the puck, thomas has done that better then anyone else in the league this year, did it better then anyone else 2 years ago as well,

    Hasek played a very similar style and was great at it.. Thomas gets by on athleticism, not luck, Rask plays positionally, needless to say, he gets beat at times where it looks like he put no effort into making a save, he was out of position, so he was beat.. Get there or not, thomas makes the attempt..
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]I think a lot of people are missing the point: As far as ability, style, game, athletic ability, etc., Thomas is arguably the best goalie the Bruins have ever had.  I cant think of anyone who has matched Timmys athletic ability and ability to make a play on the puck, which makes him the best goalie in history.  Sure, there have been goalies who have done more for the Bruins (over MUCH longer careers) but that doesnt mean they were better goalies.  Now, Im not saying he is definitely the best they ever had, NOBODY can make a fair comparison since we have only been bruins since since what, the 50's a the earliest, and the different eras and styles there have been.  Ive only been following the Bruins since 1980, so thats all I have to go by, but in that time there hasnt been anyone as good. Saying that he hasnt won a cup, blah, blah, blah isnt a fair comparison.  That would be like saying Thornton was equally as good a forward as Kovalchuck because he had as many goals as him earlier this season.  People can have bad seasons and still be better/the best.  Timmy was hurt last year and had a bad year, yes.  That doesnt discount what he has done here before or since.  In the last 3 years he has been nominated to 3 straight All-Star games (back-to-back-to-back because there wasnt one last year).  He won BOTH in 2008 & 2009.  In 2009 he won the Jennings, Crozier AND Vezina trophies and in 2010 he won a silver medal in the Olympics.  He is also a shoe-in for the Vezina right now.  To say he isnt one of the best, let alone top 5 all time is really ridiculous and based solely on the fact that he has only played 295 games (started 284) and hasnt gone past the second round of the playoffs.  Thats pretty short-sighted when you consider what he has done in such a short time, and at such an older age.  The guy is phenomenal and has EASILY been the leagues best goalie since the 2008 season.
    Posted by bigvig[/QUOTE]

    In the end, I don't necessarily disagree.   He's top 5.  No doubt.


     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from BBReigns. Show BBReigns's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]Joe, you dont get lucky for a career.. He is not a butterfly goalie, rask is.. And I would argue position cuts your risk it doesnt make you better.. the object is stopping the puck, thomas has done that better then anyone else in the league this year, did it better then anyone else 2 years ago as well, Hasek played a very similar style and was great at it.. Thomas gets by on athleticism, not luck, Rask plays positionally, needless to say, he gets beat at times where it looks like he put no effort into making a save, he was out of position, so he was beat.. Get there or not, thomas makes the attempt..
    Posted by rolerhoky19[/QUOTE]

    Agree. A zebra/tiger can't change his stripes theory. Who cares how the job gets done or what it looks like?

    Numbers don't lie.
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from dannycater. Show dannycater's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    Thomas still has to perform in the playoffs. When he does, if he does, I will put him in the pedestal. I think he's more accurately one of the top 5 goalies in B's history. I've gotten to see quite a few over the years--Cheevers, Peeters, Dafoe, Gilbert, Moog, Lemelin, Keans, Ranford, Raycroft, Casey, Riendeau, Daskalakis, Reece, Johnston.....but without seeing Brimsek and Tiny Thompson--and knowing how well regarded they are, I'd go with those 2 in any Top 5 argument...Success as a individual needs to transcend to the team. Can't be just a good reg. season goalie.
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]Too bad all the Thomas bashers have me on ignore, or they would demolish your stupidity!!!
    Posted by notacryingwino[/QUOTE]
    Yeah,he sure is lucky that everybody's got you on ignore.........lol.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from Kanes-Donuts. Show Kanes-Donuts's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    bruins would have won last nights if timmy thomas were in the net
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from dezaruchi. Show dezaruchi's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    In Response to Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history:
    [QUOTE]bruins would have won last nights if timmy thomas were in the net
    Posted by Kanes-Donuts[/QUOTE]
    Does your crystal ball also give you access to the winning lotto numbers?
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from Orrthebest. Show Orrthebest's posts

    Re: timmy thomas greatest goalie in bruins history

    Some intresting stats for those who want Thomas to play more.

    -The last 7 goalies to win the cup averaged 47 games played per season.
    -The only goalie to win the cup since the lockout with more games played than Thomas is on pace for is Fluery with 62.
    -The last goalie to win The Conn Smythe Trophy as playoff MVP only played 28 regular season games.
    -Last season only one goalie who played more than Thomas is on pace for made it out of the first round last season.

    The following is an interesting article and you can add Niemi with 39 regular season games to the list:
    http://slapshot.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/24/cup-winning-goalies-are-rested-goalies/
     

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