4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN. Show COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN's posts

    4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    1. rondo is making a great case for not taking him out of close clutch games anymore by not only looking for his jumper but making them. the foul shooting thing is less of an issue unless we are up by 5 or so with a minute or less left.. can bring in a delonte at that point... if he is going to take the jumper and others play him then not driving to the hoop due to his free throw shooting fears is not so prominent..

    2. since the trade, pp is driving to the hoop much more. double digits in foul shots made in back to back games! all the spacing is helping his game...

    3. we better get murphy for bb is too up and down to be closing out games. want to to see kg at center and playing the toughest low post scorer (not named howard) with a resurgent murph at pf... with those bigger centers, we can go to bb with kg at pf...

    4. al jefferson still isnt quite at that elite level yet. great stats and improved foul shooting.. but with the money on the line, he choked and got intimidated against kg with that unforced travel and then again by bricking that foul shot that would have pulled them within one on a three-point play.
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    In Response to 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH:
    [QUOTE]3. we better get murphy [/QUOTE]

    Yes we better. Murphy increased our chances to Banner 18.

     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    5. Baby really stunk it up last night.  Just say no to the cheeseburgers!
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    CC - I agree with you on the first three points - but take issue with #4.  Al ate up the Celtic post defense.  He continuously made BB go for up fakes and found the 'blue sky' for his patented baby hook.  He made face up jumpers and was solid from the charity stripe(despite that last miss - I even recall Larry missing two consecutive free throws at crunch time - more recently LeBron missed against the Celts - so no real biggy there.)  I though Al was a beast - indeed he may have the best post up game in the league.  He has great hands for rebounding and for catching the ball in traffic.  But even here we did not need Perk to win - I an quite sure that Al wanted to win this one to show that the Celts had made a mistake trading both he and Perk.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from PACelt. Show PACelt's posts

    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    AL has never beaten the Celtics.

    PA
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    BB should have been at least dangled to see who the Cs can get...I'm quite tired of his limited basketball IQ. At the very least use that big body to clear space when rebounding, learn to use the bank shot and FINISH a drive. Rondo...I won't be too harsh on your last couple of games seeing that you're still in mourning (please get over it).
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

     On Big Al, it's been awhile since he wsa the focal point of an offense.  He started off in Minny as their guy, but then he got hurt and Love and Rambis came on board.  Rambis put in the triangle and it didn't suit Jefferson well.  Then in Utah his game didn't blend real well the Deron Williams.  I think Al's going to step up now and be relied on more. 
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    Baby had a bad night. Everyone has one once in a while.

    Jefferson was the focus of the offense because he played mostly against Krystic and not Perkins. Baby and KG also played Jefferson from time to time.

    It was more fun to watch Krystic on offense than Perkins.
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    In Response to Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH:
    [QUOTE]CC - I agree with you on the first three points - but take issue with #4.  Al ate up the Celtic post defense.  He continuously made BB go for up fakes and found the 'blue sky' for his patented baby hook.  He made face up jumpers and was solid from the charity stripe(despite that last miss - I even recall Larry missing two consecutive free throws at crunch time - more recently LeBron missed against the Celts - so no real biggy there.)  I though Al was a beast - indeed he may have the best post up game in the league.  He has great hands for rebounding and for catching the ball in traffic.  But even here we did not need Perk to win - I an quite sure that Al wanted to win this one to show that the Celts had made a mistake trading both he and Perk.
    Posted by mtrue[/QUOTE]there is a reson al has yet to make an all-star team! he is very good, just not great or elite. almost every time i see al, he has great stats and ELITE moves.. problem is with the money on the table he usually does what he did last nite... great date, but no eggs in the morning.. get my drift? perhaps he will get there but to me last year is his last chance! he may be another kg (nothing wrong with that), shaq or even lebron.. he needs a pierce, kobe or allen around to take those big shots as he is the third or fourth option designed to rebound! like melo or not, that guy will take and make that big shot more times than not!
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    comcon, you are one of the few to have any idea of how good Carmelo was in last shot situations. 

    82games.com accumulated the NBA results, over the 3 1/2 year period that ended mid-last season, of players' performance in every potentially game-winning last possession.   Carmelo was #1, shooting 75% in those situations. 

    By the way, our own Paul Pierce was #2, taking into account FTs made and missed, assists and turnovers, as well as shots made.  Paul was second in assists, one behind Steve Nash. Ray Allen's shooting earned him fifth place.

    Kobe Bryant was absolutely putrid, with the LOWEST shooting percentage of anyone with more than 8 such situations.  [Yes, you read that right.]  In addition, in something like 40 such situations, Kobe had a grand total of ONE assist.  Also terrible were "little shot" Chauncey Billups, and 1-16 Steve Nash. 

    [All the above figures are from memory, and may be off by a small amount.]
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    In Response to 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH:
    [QUOTE]1. rondo is making a great case for not taking him out of close clutch games anymore by not only looking for his jumper but making them. the foul shooting thing is less of an issue unless we are up by 5 or so with a minute or less left.. can bring in a delonte at that point... if he is going to take the jumper and others play him then not driving to the hoop due to his free throw shooting fears is not so prominent.. 2. since the trade, pp is driving to the hoop much more. double digits in foul shots made in back to back games! all the spacing is helping his game... 3. we better get murphy for bb is too up and down to be closing out games. want to to see kg at center and playing the toughest low post scorer (not named howard) with a resurgent murph at pf... with those bigger centers, we can go to bb with kg at pf... 4. al jefferson still isnt quite at that elite level yet. great stats and improved foul shooting.. but with the money on the line, he choked and got intimidated against kg with that unforced travel and then again by bricking that foul shot that would have pulled them within one on a three-point play.
    Posted by COMMUNIST-CONTRARIAN[/QUOTE]


    -1- Rondo missed about 6 straight jumpers before making what amounted to a foul shot - the strategy to ignore him will continue on.  At least make a subtle attempt to imagine they played a team that has been together for about a week.  Road trip - 11 ppg, 1 three pointer, 33% at the line..... imagine if he was an actual good point guard and he scored over 20 ppg, made 2 or 3 threes per game, got to the line 6 times per game and made 5 of them?  This idea that Rondo has somehow shaken his reputation as the worst finisher and shooter in the league is a joke - what it shows is that they continue to persevere in their thinking and the blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while.

    -4-  Jefferson is still not quite at the elite level yet - um after 7 years it is not going to happen, not sure if you noticed that each and every year players that are better keep getting drafted - there is a rookie of the year that ensures that he never gets to the elite level, there is also a guy in Portland that is head and shoulders above him.  Jefferson is the absolute epitome of the overall mentality of this board - everyone on this board views him as a perennial all-star and in his 7th year he has never made an all-star game (and will never make an all-star team) and has never played on a playoff team and now that Utah has traded Williams, he likely will never play on a playoff team.  Elite players carry teams to the playoffs, Big Al carries bottles of Jack, Jim, and Johnny.

     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    Well, Rondo must have MADE 8 shots in a row prior to that because he shot
    9-16 for the game.  You really should read a box score before you start typing.

    I love your constantly repeated criticism that Rondo is the worst finisher and shooter in the league.  And yet he somehow manages to shoot 50% - one of the top shooting percentages by a guard in the NBA.  Did the same thing last year, ending up with the second highest shooting percentage of all the guards. Odd, isn't it?

     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    In Response to Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH:
    [QUOTE]comcon, you are one of the few to have any idea of how good Carmelo was in last shot situations.  82games.com accumulated the NBA results, over the 3 1/2 year period that ended mid-last season, of players' performance in every potentially game-winning last possession.   Carmelo was #1, shooting 75% in those situations.  By the way, our own Paul Pierce was #2, taking into account FTs made and missed, assists and turnovers, as well as shots made.  Paul was second in assists, one behind Steve Nash. Ray Allen's shooting earned him fifth place. Kobe Bryant was absolutely putrid, with the LOWEST shooting percentage of anyone with more than 8 such situations.  [Yes, you read that right.]  In addition, in something like 40 such situations, Kobe had a grand total of ONE assist.  Also terrible were "little shot" Chauncey Billups, and 1-16 Steve Nash.  [All the above figures are from memory, and may be off by a small amount.]
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]comrade, i did a post on this.. pp was actually #1 based on frequency. melo has the best percentage but had only taken about half the shots pp had! from a pure jump shot view (mid range and further).. paul was #1, melo was second.. ginobili was third... wade was fifth.. believe dirk was fourth.. kobe is way down there.. he just has the benefits of volume and frequency! the perception far exceeds the reality!
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

     That 50% shooting percentage is deceptive in that most of his baskets come from lay-ups. I actually like the guy alot, because the way he quaterbacks the team and sets up the open man, but to suggest that he is a great shooting--- or even average shooting---guard, in my opinion is off the mark.
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    In Response to Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH:
    [QUOTE]In Response to 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH : -1- Rondo missed about 6 straight jumpers before making what amounted to a foul shot - the strategy to ignore him will continue on.  At least make a subtle attempt to imagine they played a team that has been together for about a week.  Road trip - 11 ppg, 1 three pointer, 33% at the line..... imagine if he was an actual good point guard and he scored over 20 ppg, made 2 or 3 threes per game, got to the line 6 times per game and made 5 of them?  This idea that Rondo has somehow shaken his reputation as the worst finisher and shooter in the league is a joke - what it shows is that they continue to persevere in their thinking and the blind squirrel gets a nut once in a while. -4-  Jefferson is still not quite at the elite level yet - um after 7 years it is not going to happen, not sure if you noticed that each and every year players that are better keep getting drafted - there is a rookie of the year that ensures that he never gets to the elite level, there is also a guy in Portland that is head and shoulders above him.  Jefferson is the absolute epitome of the overall mentality of this board - everyone on this board views him as a perennial all-star and in his 7th year he has never made an all-star game (and will never make an all-star team) and has never played on a playoff team and now that Utah has traded Williams, he likely will never play on a playoff team.  Elite players carry teams to the playoffs, Big Al carries bottles of Jack, Jim, and Johnny.
    Posted by TheDUDDER[/QUOTE]dud, love that last line about jack, johnny and jim.. if u dont mind, i will borrow it at some point!   

    with al. we are on the same page. he has plateaued... if not getting better, you are falling behind as the younger guys pass you..look at how better ray, and paul have become for instance.. it likely will never happen with al, unless he gets traded to a team like the heat.. much better fit than a bosh esp with guys like bibby and miller around.. as the man, doesnt work for al.. as the man behind the man, perhaps...

    with rr, been pessimistic but i said "becoming..."... just shooting it is progress.. u cant make it if you dont take it... rather he make the last one than the others.. had he not missed the previous ones, he likely may not have made the last.. liked the fact he was being guarded close enough that a fake was able to free him up for that shot.. he's on right track, far from destination though...






     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    Trouts, there are easy lay-ups and difficult ones.  Rondo gets a lot of very difficult lay-ups, in traffic and among the tall trees.  He is also knocked down HARD a lot when taking those lay-ups.  (I'm still not sure why a lot more of those aren't fouls, by the way.)

    Even getting a lot of easy lay-ups requires skills like anticipation, pass-catching, and avoiding being called for charges - as well as great speed, good fakes and excellent dribbling.  And a lot of Rondo's easy lay-ups are the result of another skill of his - picking off the other team's passes.

    And do you call it an easy lay-up if he dodges two defenders and puts up a shot that requires a lot of carefully calculated "english"?  We see Rondo do that every game. 

    By the way, over half of Rondo's shots this year have been jump shots.  Bet you didn't know that!  Or that in crunch time, he shoots more jump shots and hits a higher percentage of them!

    Think about all the criticisms you have heard aimed at Rondo, and about how many of them are contradicted by those three facts.  Kind of casts doubt on the observational skills of Rondo's critics, wouldn't you say.

    I LOVE 82games.com!!
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    Regarding Rondo. I need to ask trouts about his comment on Rondo layups.

    Based on your comment of Rondo's 50% shooting percentage is deceptive in that most of his baskets come from lay-ups. Does that mean you don't get two points for a layup and you get more for a regular basket??

    How would you complain about this statement for a three point shooter like Ray Allen? He can only shoot threes and can't drive to the basket? So that would make him a lousy scorer?????????

    Dah
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    In Response to Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH:
    [QUOTE]Well, Rondo must have MADE 8 shots in a row prior to that because he shot 9-16 for the game.  You really should read a box score before you start typing. I love your constantly repeated criticism that Rondo is the worst finisher and shooter in the league.  And yet he somehow manages to shoot 50% - one of the top shooting percentages by a guard in the NBA.  Did the same thing last year, ending up with the second highest shooting percentage of all the guards. Odd, isn't it?
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    And dudder takes a blow to the head,  he is DOWN, he is DOWN.
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    I feel sorry for Al. he was averaging a 27-13 in minny before he had that major injury. I wish him all the best
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    In Response to Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH:
    [QUOTE]BB should have been at least dangled to see who the Cs can get...I'm quite tired of his limited basketball IQ. At the very least use that big body to clear space when rebounding, learn to use the bank shot and FINISH a drive. Rondo...I won't be too harsh on your last couple of games seeing that you're still in mourning (please get over it).
    Posted by walk2run[/QUOTE]

    you crazy!!  it's impossible to lead the league in charges drawn and have a "low basketball IQ"!!  yes, the guy has to improve more, but at the same time, yes, he has improved and is still improving.  one of davis' strengths has been that when he plays within himself he shows a superior basketball IQ for a player of his age, in case you didn't notice, he's the only guy not named rondo under age 33 who is closing out games with 4 HOF players, and we are winning......

    perkins on the other hand was such a blob on offense at times i thought that there would be a syndrome named after him- "that guy has perkinsitis in the hands and feet".

    go easy on davis.  he does tremendous things for this team that don't show up on the stat sheet.  and plenty that do.  he did not have a good game last night.  he will have better games.  there is also more disruption in his particular area of the team right now as they are bringing in murphy and have brought in kristic.

    this will be a time of adjustment for all involved.  i like what kristic has done so far and murphy should bring some positives, but at the end of the day, davis has his unique set of things that he does for this team that cannot and will not be lost in the shuffle.
     
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    Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH

    In Response to Re: 4 THOUGHTS FROM LAST NIGHT VERSUS UTAH:
    [QUOTE]Regarding Rondo. I need to ask trouts about his comment on Rondo layups. Based on your comment of Rondo's 50% shooting percentage is deceptive in that most of his baskets come from lay-ups. Does that mean you don't get two points for a layup and you get more for a regular basket?? How would you complain about this statement for a three point shooter like Ray Allen? He can only shoot threes and can't drive to the basket? So that would make him a lousy scorer????????? Dah
    Posted by celticsince1958[/QUOTE]
     Sure you get 2 points for a layup, but I'm not complaining one bit about Rondo making layups, especially early in the game. It's just my opinion, and I don't think I'm alone, that he's not a good spot-up shooter. Here's what I think the Celts have to be wary of: late, close-game situations where Rondo passes up an open shot in favor of a drive to the hoop. Were I the opposition I'd foul him every time, cause he's not an especially good free throw shooter either. I don't think any of this makes me a Rondo-hater, nor is it big news to most Celtics fans.
     

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