A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court:
    [QUOTE]Do you realize DJ early in DJ's career he was seen as a knucklehead who had an attitude. This is why he was traded from the Sonics to Suns then to the C's. Rondo has hit some clutch shots and played big today. His FTs still stink big time.
    Posted by BiasLewis[/QUOTE]

    DJ was considered a malcontent... but he had a ring already when he came to the C's. Turned out he didn't like losing.

    Clutch shots (plural) by Rondo? I'm still waiting. Refresh my memory... something above and beyond the alley oop from last year.

    He may have taken just a few clutch shots in his five year career but.... hitting them? That another story.

    Rondo did play big in quarter 3 today. Very big. Beyond that.......?

    A money player Rondo is not.

    Pud
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from bilalkazmi. Show bilalkazmi's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court : so you spin out 500 words to come to the same conclusion that i did, while calling my analysis garbage of the worst sort.  if it's that bad DON"T READ IT.  and by the way, i copied VERBATIM the play by play summary of the celts posessions the last 5 mins vs. the lakers from another article.  so 2/3 of that is someone else summarizing the effect of the rondo sag-off, not me.  it's not rocket science for rondo, warts and all, to remain relevant. he just needs to remain aggressive.  ultimately i think everyone's tired of the lack of work he's put in at shooting the ball and would like him to fix that root cause, but he's good enough at other things that he could STILL GET BY vs. the lakers rather than sitting in the corner!
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    No ACIE.  You missed my point all together. 

    If I wanted, or if you wanted, we could pick another Celtics player, focus on his weakness and come up with the same conclusion. 

    KG is tremendous on defense and he has a good shooting range, specially for his size, but dude doesn't have the best post game.  Pau Gasol owned him in the post in the finals.   From time to time, the Celtics aren't able to score in the crunch.  If KG were to strengthen his post moves our chances of winning could be improved.

    Likewise, Ray Allen in some ways is 2 dimensional.  The dude is a great shooter, but at times he can't create his own shots.  His dribbling and ball control skills are also questionable. If he were to improve on his ability to create shots and control the ball better, that could tremendously improve our chances.

    Kendrick Perkins offense stinks.  At times, his presence on the floor really really hurts us on the offensive end.  If he were to improve his offensive game it would improve our chances.

    Pierce has demons of his own.  He has a tendency to ball hero ball and get into his one-on-one plays.  Specially at times when we really really need to focus on team game.  On top of that, Pierce has ball control issues as well.  He often loses the handle on the ball when he is trying to go one on one.  If he were to rectify this in his game our chances will be improved a lot.

    I can go on and on about a lot of the players.  The fact is this:  All players have strengths and weaknesses.  You have the knack on picking on one person's weakness and pretending that its all on that weakness. 

    Have you heard of the term selective judgement or heiuristic judgement?  Look it up.  I think you suffer from it.  You see just one thing and can't get past it.

    Yes, Rondo is a weak shooter and if he were to become better it will improve our odds.  But, I like our odds with the Rondo of today.  He does enough things superbly for me to give him a pass on his poor shooting.  What I do know that he continually works at it, despite us not seeing tremendous improvements (although some improvement is there because he is starting to take mid-range jumpers and he is making that at an acceptable rate).

    Thats all.  I think you missed my point.  Our conclusions might have seemed similar, but let me tell you THEY WEREN'T.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court : No ACIE.  You missed my point all together.  If I wanted, or if you wanted, we could pick another Celtics player, focus on his weakness and come up with the same conclusion. 
    Posted by bilalkazmi[/QUOTE]

    yes, you are right, we can pick at anyone's weaknesses.  however, the magnitude of the weaknesses or the consequences of having them vary to a great degree.  garnett shoots outside and the foul line well, is weak in the lane on offense but strong everywhere on defense.  he's got but one weakness and arguably it is congenital becuase he does not have the kind of bulk and upper body strength to be a superior inside player.

    the weakest players on the team are perkins and rondo.  and the only problem with having a key position like point guard with glaring weaknesses is that the weaknesses have a magnified effect some of the time.  case in point vs. the lakers at home. 

    case NOT in point today vs. miami because rondo stayed aggressive.  he had a terrible game from the free throw line and was not hot from outside but he WAS nevertheless a force to be dealt with. 

    and one of the things i was most impressed with was rondo's DEFENSE despite the fact he wasn't gap gambling and had NO STEALS, i thought rondo played superb defense.

    so, weaknesses CAN be mitigated and with rondo they HAVE to be when it comes to the lakers, we can't go through five games out of another series with kobe getting away with the sag off.

    rondo games 3-7 last year in the finals was a totally different player for us and very ineffective compared to what his normal function is. 

    therefore, rondo should be not only practicing his shot with urgency but not accepting passivity into his game, even when he is shooting badly!  that's my main point.


     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from bilalkazmi. Show bilalkazmi's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    Yes.  I agree with your last post a lot more.

    Rondo, as of today, despite his poor free throw shooting is still a tremendous player at our PG spot.  And I like our odds with him there IF he is playing aggressive ball.

    Some times we see him playing passive basketball.  This often happens on two occassions.

    1.  when we play significantly inferior teams.  Not only Rondo, but pretty much everyone else on the team tries to conserve energy and as a result ends up playing passively.  Rondo, when passive, is not a premier PG in the league.  At that point, he is JUST AVERAGE.

    2.  we see Rondo playing passively against the Los Angeles Lakers WHEN the front line of the Lakers is utterly dominating our front line.  This happened in the last game, and it happened a few times during last finals.  This is not just an issue with Rondo, it is an issue with most PGs.  The Lakers have the kind of length that PGs don't see often.  And when the Lakers length players are playing with confidence, it becomes extremely difficult to penetrate and get to the rim. 
    I do think he needs to get over this, and still attach Pau Gasol, Bynum and Odom.  HOWEVER, what we also need to realize that our front line needs to make sure that they are also winning the battle.  God willing, in the playoffs, when we play with a full front line, I believe it will not be easy for the Lakers front line to dominate us.  And, we will definitely see a more aggressive Rondo.

    Before the Lakers series, Rondo WAS the best and the most aggressive player in the playoffs.  And he was easily the biggest reason why we kept beating on teams that had homecourt over us and were also favorite to defeat us.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    Pud to suggest Rondo is not a money player is like calling the sky red. What are you talking about? We get he does not shoot well enough.  

    Shooting from the outside is not the only facet of the game.  This kid is game changer.

    You are certainly very intelligent but you mind is closed to reality on this.  Without Rondo this team sinks due to its age.  Rondo is the equalizer in this without him this team is not in the conversation of the NBA elite teams.

    And yes he is better for the Celtics than Rose, Paul, Westbrook and any 
    other names you have brought up.

    Saying you have never seem him hit clutch shots. Crazy.  What about last year with one second left on the clock with this same team in Miami down one.  Rondo takes an alley oop from Pierce and goes over the Heat to win the game. Kind of clutch.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from jerrycole. Show jerrycole's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court:
    [QUOTE]in the interests of full disclosure, here are rondo's crunch time stats http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT14.HTM
    Posted by teh-n00b[/QUOTE]

    Nice to be back.  I see nothing has changed while I've been gone.

    teh, DO NOT CONFUSE ACIE OR PUD WITH FACTS!  It just confuses them.  And you should know by now that 1) acie, pud and dud are much smarter than the rest of us; 2) what they "see" happening on the floor is untainted by their bias no matter the amazing degree to which it's contradicted by FACTS.

    From the 82games data, the rest of us can see that in crunch time, as compared to overall:  1) Rondo shoots more ;  2) his very high shooting percentage remains high;  3) he gets a lot more assists; 4) he gets more rebounds; 5) his already high assists to turnovers ratio gets even better; 5) he takes more FTs; 6) he hits a higher percentage of his FTs.  So, obviously, he "disappears" at crunch time, just as acie, pud and dud keep telling us - over and over and over - without regard to the fact that they are completely wrong!

    Let the sputtering begin!
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court : Nice to be back.  I see nothing has changed while I've been gone. teh, DO NOT CONFUSE ACIE OR PUD WITH FACTS!  It just confuses them.  And you should know by now that 1) acie, pud and dud are much smarter than the rest of us; 2) what they "see" happening on the floor is untainted by their bias no matter the amazing degree to which it's contradicted by FACTS. From the 82games data, the rest of us can see that in crunch time, as compared to overall:  1) Rondo shoots more ;  2) his very high shooting percentage remains high;  3) he gets a lot more assists; 4) he gets more rebounds; 5) his already high assists to turnovers ratio gets even better; 5) he takes more FTs; 6) he hits a higher percentage of his FTs.  So, obviously, he "disappears" at crunch time, just as acie, pud and dud keep telling us - over and over and over - without regard to the fact that they are completely wrong! Let the sputtering begin!
    Posted by jerrycole[/QUOTE]

    J/C:

    YOu've been gone since young Rondo shot 25% FTs in the finals.... and failed to win the series MVP as you were anticipating.

    Quite a disappearing act.

    Not surprising.

    Pud
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from concord27. Show concord27's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    Pud,
    I told you before but it never sinks in.  Rondo won two games singlehanded in the finals last year games 2 and 4.  Nobody else did that.

    His shooting percentage not free throws was 46% in that series. Check Kobe's not so good.

    If they had won and not faltered in the last six minutes and not seen the Lakers get 24 free throws in that period. Rondo would have been the MVP.  Kobe the winner was 5 for 24 in that seventh game.  It was a weird seventh game.
     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from gman101019. Show gman101019's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    The  sagging defense has been used by several teams against rondo, its nothing new. The Lakers however are the most equipped team to use it with succes. Kobe is a very good defender PLUS the lakers have two 7 footers clogging the lane, no other team has the necessary personel to do so. This makes it nearly impossible for rondo to get to the rim and dish off or finish. Other teams try this strategy but cant do it effectively cuz they dont have the personel like the lakers. The solution: DELONTE WEST. He MUST be used in crunch time against the lakers he can hit perimeter shots,is a good defender and a good ft shooter. Im not advocating delonte over rondo (rondo is the better overall pg, but against la delonte should get the nod).
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from wozzy. Show wozzy's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    Rondo detractors are clueless meatballs and/or trolls...

    Acie Earl is this guys hero, enough said...

    Puddin is Dudder, a Knick's troll who poses as a Celtic's fan and changes his profile so often because he gets annihilated by logic.

    Dudder/Puddin insinuates that with the "Big Three" any point guard in the league could lead the league in assists, steals or triple doubles.  So why does Carlos Arroyo still stink in Miami?

    Rondo has a very solid jumper, he shoots 50% from the floor, the league average is 40%.  Eric Snow played his entire career without having a long range shot, Jason Kidd took years to develop a 3 point shot, now he sits behind Ray Allen and Reggie Miller on the all time 3 point list. Get a clue, not every player is Chris Paul offensively, that being said Rondo can shut down Paul or any other point guard in a 7 game series.  This isn't fantasy league basketball, and unfortunately for you detractors/trolls offense doesn't happen in a vacuum.  
    We win because of Rondo more often than not, it's an 82 game season, you can cherry pick certain games out and say so and so had a bad game but that's true of anyone.  We lost to the Lakers due to injury and lack of depth, get a grip...
     
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    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court:
    [QUOTE]Pud, I told you before but it never sinks in.  Rondo won two games singlehanded in the finals last year games 2 and 4.  Nobody else did that. His shooting percentage not free throws was 46% in that series. Check Kobe's not so good. If they had won and not faltered in the last six minutes and not seen the Lakers get 24 free throws in that period. Rondo would have been the MVP.  Kobe the winner was 5 for 24 in that seventh game.  It was a weird seventh game.
    Posted by concord27[/QUOTE]

    There's a reason your words never sink in.

    Kobe was being double and triple teamed... while young Rondo was left wide... all by his lonesome... open. You would expect Rondo to be shooing 92%, not half that from the field.

    And you would expect Kobe to be shooting close to 20%,  not 41% due to constant double and triple teaming... and far less than 29PPG and 88% FTs all thing considered.

    You claim that Rondo won two games singlehandedly... isn't it a team sport???...  while his sagging defender won 4 games anchoring the Laker's team defense while ignoring Rondo.

    And Rondo came within 6 minutes of beating out Kobe for series MVP????

    I guess that I'm missing something.

    You seem to be comparing Barney Fife with Robocop.

    Explain things again for me.

    Pud 
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from bilalkazmi. Show bilalkazmi's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court:
    [QUOTE]The  sagging defense has been used by several teams against rondo, its nothing new. The Lakers however are the most equipped team to use it with succes. Kobe is a very good defender PLUS the lakers have two 7 footers clogging the lane, no other team has the necessary personel to do so. This makes it nearly impossible for rondo to get to the rim and dish off or finish. Other teams try this strategy but cant do it effectively cuz they dont have the personel like the lakers. The solution: DELONTE WEST. He MUST be used in crunch time against the lakers he can hit perimeter shots,is a good defender and a good ft shooter. Im not advocating delonte over rondo (rondo is the better overall pg, but against la delonte should get the nod).
    Posted by gman101019[/QUOTE]

    Finally, a guy that talks sense. 

    Some posters here see sagging defense on Rondo and can't see past the obvious first thought "they don't appreciate Rondo's shooting ability." 

    Remind me, in the playoffs last year, how many times did both Magic and Cavaliers change their strategy on how to defend Rondo.  They tried everything.  Changing players on him, sagging defense, pressure defense, there was talk that one game Lebron himself would try and shut down Rondo.

    Sagging defense on Rondo does not work for many teams.  First of all, realize that Rondo is so damn quick that the guy guarding Rondo has no choice but to give Rondo a lot of room, or else Rondo will blow by his guy at will.

    Second thing to realize: sagging defense on Rondo only works if Lakers are applying it AND the Lakers bigmen are feeling real confident about themselves.  Please note the "AND" qualifier in here.  This happens when our front line is being abused by the Lakers front line.  And the only few times I have seen it happen is when Boston haven't had enough big bodies to go around.

    Last year in the finals, KG played on one leg, Perkins missed 1.5 crucial games, Rasheed had a severley bad back, and the other big men were stiffs on our team.  Our only big that played well was Big Baby (and hes not starter in this league). In 2008 we won because our big men outmuscled their big men.  Several weeks ago, we hands down beat Lakers because our big men played better.  A few days ago, we lost because we didn't have a lot of big bodies to go around.

    CONCLUSION: We can win against the Lakers IF our front line is able to hold down their front line.  That is the most important match up.  It is not on Rondo, as some poster will make it seem like.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from jrleftfoot. Show jrleftfoot's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    In Response to Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court:
    [QUOTE]in the interests of full disclosure, here are rondo's crunch time stats http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT14.HTM
    Posted by teh-n00b[/QUOTE]
    The bashers will ignore these stats or come up with some inane rationale to explain them. How about the "death spell" rondo put on the heatles.
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: A quick summary of the Rondo death spell cast upon C's by smart teams defending us half court

    Unfortunately, Kobe is in Rondo's head (I mean, that's how it looks to me). But, Kobe is in most players' heads. At some point, Doc has to let Rondo fight that demon and clear out for Rondo on Kobe 1-1 and let the chips fall. I have really come to respect Rondo's competitive fire; I think it is a mistake to bet against this 23 or is it 24? year old all star...
     

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