Bill Russell and today's athletes

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    Duke and TeamUmbutu

     http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&is_playoffs=N&year_min=2010&year_max=2010&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=80&height_max=99&lg_id=NBA&franch_id=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&qual=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts_per_g

     The 09-10 printout is above.

    I believe the charts are self-explanatory. A simple comparison between the 2 years  based on height and points. But I must explain a little variation that I use when comparing scoring from different generations. During the Russell years scoring per game was much higher-in fact it reached a all time high average of 118.8 points per team in 1961-62. In 2009 teams only averaged 100.4 points per game. The more points scored the higher the per game averages for the players. Using the 61-62 season as the standard for a 20 point average for a player it is then possible to adjust  other years when  fewer points per game are scored.So in 62-63 when the league average dropped to 115.3 a ave of 19.4 was the same as 20pts in61-62. And in 09-10 a ave of 16.9 is the same as 20 points in 61-62. I have chosen to use those players that averaged 10 or more pts per game.For 62-63 that would be those players with averages of 9.4 or more and in 09-10 it is 6.9. For 62-63 thats 11 players from a league of 9 teams and for 09-10 thats 106 players from a 30  team league. In my next post I will list the players from all 30 teams that could play in the years when contact was at a minimum.

    Seems
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    ok, so based on the above, you're saying that points scored are less...... sooo, maybe russell scores less in the modern game, although his scoring was a tertiary skill in his career- not that important. 

    so let's say he averages 10 points, 20 rebounds and 7 blocks a game.  that would be a devastating and unique force on the floor in the modern nba, right? 

    from era to era he'd block just the same shots today if not more.  there are so many lazy rebounders about the game these days that he could easily grab what he did back then, right? 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    and here's a comparison for you that will either bring you to the light or make you want to barf. 

    just imagine glen davis with russell's body type and leaping ability.  davis' help defense is a fairly unique skill in the league- that is to say that his skill level at help defense is the best in the league.

    THAT is the kind of player that russell would also be in the modern game, only quicker, and able to not only take charges but swat tons of shots instead- twice the game changing impact and psychological effect on the other team.  right?
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Indiansbacker. Show Indiansbacker's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    In Response to Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes:
    [QUOTE]and here's a comparison for you that will either bring you to the light or make you want to barf.  just imagine glen davis with russell's body type and leaping ability.  davis' help defense is a fairly unique skill in the league- that is to say that his skill level at help defense is the best in the league. THAT is the kind of player that russell would also be in the modern game, only quicker, and able to not only take charges but swat tons of shots instead- twice the game changing impact and psychological effect on the other team.  right?
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    And a 7'1", 300-pound Wilt (with today's nutrition and weight training) would still be Russ' greatest nemesis! 
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    Duke and TeamUmbutu

    This is the list for each of the 30 teams. The number following the players name is the number of backups on that team.
     Atlanta,Horford-3
     Boston,Garnet-3
     Charlotte,Jackson-2
     Chicago,Noah-3
     Cleveland,James-4
     Dallas,Nowitzki-1
     Denver,Anthony-2
     Detroit,Prince-2
     Golden State-No players with a minimum of 50 games played. all injured
     Houston,Scola-3
     Indiana,Granger-3
     L.A Clippers,-2
     L.A.Lakers,Gasol2
     Memphis,Gay-2
     Miami,Beasley-2
     Milwaukee,Bogut-1
     Minnesota,Jefferson-2
     New Jersey,Lopez-1
     NewOrleans,Okafor-3
     New York,Lee-3
     Oklahoma,Durant-2
     Orlando,Howard-2
     Philadelphia,Brand 3
     Phoenix,Stoudemire-3
     Portland,Aldridge-1
     Sacamento,Thompson-3
    San Antonio,Duncan-1
     Toronto,Bosh-2
     Utah,Boozer-3
     Washington,Blatch-3

    Those are the players that would go back in time to face the Celts and Bill Russell. Hope that answers your question TeamUmbutu.

    Seems
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    In Response to Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes : And a 7'1", 300-pound Wilt (with today's nutrition and weight training) would still be Russ' greatest nemesis! 
    Posted by Indiansbacker[/QUOTE]

    yep, probably so.  and i'll bet russ' team would still win 8 out of 9 times they played.
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    Duke and Umbutu

     Goofed. Add to L.A clippers- player Chris Kaman.

      Seems
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    In Response to Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes:
    [QUOTE]and here's a comparison for you that will either bring you to the light or make you want to barf.  just imagine glen davis with russell's body type and leaping ability.  davis' help defense is a fairly unique skill in the league- that is to say that his skill level at help defense is the best in the league. THAT is the kind of player that russell would also be in the modern game, only quicker, and able to not only take charges but swat tons of shots instead- twice the game changing impact and psychological effect on the other team.  right?
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    Nice post.  Russell was quick & fast... wasnt he also a track star or something?  But he also knew the game, how to set up teams/players and used it when it in crunch time.

    I read a post here quoting Russ saying he coulod have blocked many more shots but chose not to. Sometimes he let someone get by early in the game, maybe a few times... but he didnt block the shot although he knew he could get it. He gave the guy false confidence and when the 4th quarter rolled around  and the game was tight... that same player would try the same shot, the one he got away with all game and SWAT!!!

    This is a dumb thread in that its a shame Russell has to be defended.  I saw him play for several years, not even in his prime... I viewed him as the guy who could always make it happen...a kind of confidence you knew no matter what, hed come out on top with the Celtics. Thats hard to come by... Larry is one of the few that had it...
     
    Russell would be dominant today... maybe he'd have a different kind of  impact but he would be a major force... and add todays training/specializing, who knows what he was capable of.


     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from paulliu. Show paulliu's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    I heard Russell say that one of the first things he learned was that you don't do something just to prove that you can do it.  Rather everything you did was with the goal of winning in mind.

    Thus, early in the game he often would not block certain shots he could otherwise block  because if he did the good players would adjust and find a shot that he couldn't block. 

    So, Russell wanted them to take these shots and then like a pool hustler he would make them eat their pet moves when it really counted. 

    I doubt that there are too many players that approach the game like this in any era.
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    Duke

    You and I are on different pages. I happen to think that the nba was of a much inferior quality until the late 70's. I see those  years as being the minor league years of the league with the 50's being the low minors-lets call those years "C" league caliber and then in 1960 starting a gradual climb up the minor league ladder through "B"and then "A" ball and then about 1980 making it to the majors.Being a baseball fan I"m sure that you have seen many minor leaguers with major league stats that have at best led to average careers.
         It is this point of view that causes me to view the records of many of the stars of the 50's and 60's with much less enthusiasm then you do.

    Seems
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from SeemsToMe. Show SeemsToMe's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    Team

    Rule differences,--- I agree 100%
    Skill level,---While it is true that the dunk is the highest % shot in basketball,the shooting % for those big men playing with a 8 foot lane in the early 50's and then a 12 foot lane until the switch to 16 feet in 1964, was quite low.With very little game film available its impossible to know where the shots came from.
     (baseball vs basketball) Total opportunity for blacks came much later for blacks in basketball.As a group the greatest skill that most blacks share is quickness, speed, agility and jumping ability.Certainly a big plus for basketball.Plus the core city offers far greater chance to play basketball.Basketball is now number 1 with
     blacks.

    Watered down league---Not in my opinion.My reasons tomorrow. It is now game time.

    Seems
    Seems
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from Hetchinspete. Show Hetchinspete's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    In Response to Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes:
    [QUOTE]Your nuts...
    Posted by EliasB[/QUOTE]

    EliasB,

    You're the one that is nuts. Russell played against a number of very talented centers in his day, and dominated them alleven though he gave up size. Given the advantage of todays training methods, Russel could and would compete against todays best just as he did in the late 50s to 1960s. The height issue is total BS. Dave Cowens at 6'9" battled Kareem Abdul Jabbar at 7'2" giving up 5" or more in height and in the 70s that battle was the best in the NBA. Cowens in his prime averaged 14-16 rebounds a game which is comparable to what Jabbar averaged over the same period. 

    Hetchinspete.  
     
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    You are right my friend...we do disagree...and that's fine....at least we can have a good conversation about the sport and teams we love.....it's all good....
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    In Response to Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes : This is a dumb thread in that its a shame Russell has to be defended.  I saw him play for several years, not even in his prime... I viewed him as the guy who could always make it happen...a kind of confidence you knew no matter what, hed come out on top with the Celtics.
    Posted by Karllost[/QUOTE]

    yep, you got that right.  most of these people at best are looking at his career stat sheets saying these things.  they have no idea how unique this guy was in the history of the game as far as desire, character and athletic ability.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from PierceIsTheTruth. Show PierceIsTheTruth's posts

    Re: Bill Russell and today's athletes

    the only stat that matters is the W. and russell has enough for 11 rings in 13 years. only years the celtics lost were when he was injured.
     

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