Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

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  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    These are all #1 Celtic draft choices.....some came into the league with great potential while others weren't household names...

    Center....I'll pick 3

    Eric Montross-Ohio St
    Acie Earl-Iowa (not to offend our fellow poster!)
    Mel Counts-Oregon St

    Power Forward...3 more

    Michael Smith-Brigham Young
    Darren Tillis-Cleveland St
    Jerome Moiso-UCLA

    Small Forward...3 again

    Michael Young-Houston (member of Phi Slama Jama..great athlete...total bust)
    Kedrick Brown-Oklahoma Walton JC
    Gerald Green-High School

    Shooting Guard...2

    Charles Bradley-Wyoming (muscular athletic type but a bust)
    Joseph Forte-North Carolina

    Point Guard....I'll take...

    Sam Vincent-Michigan State
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    wasn't forte red's idea? montross went to UNC.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    Yeah, you are right on both points Bailey......my bad!
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from carnie. Show carnie's posts

    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    Didn't George Gervin play on the worst Celtics team ever? A team which also featured Sidney Wicks, Curtis Rowe and a very young cornbread maxwell. Talk about historically bad. That was about the worst team I ever had the displeasure of watching.
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    I don't remember the Iceman playing for us...(?)...I could be wrong....I do remember Artis Gilmore.....quick....who was his twin tower at Jacksonville......?
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    In Response to Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments:
    [QUOTE]I don't remember the Iceman playing for us...(?)...I could be wrong....I do remember Artis Gilmore.....quick....who was his twin tower at Jacksonville......?
    Posted by Duke4[/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure the iceman served his time at the garden. Artis Gilmore was the only guy who couldn't move who served in the pivot at the garden. Tongue out
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    George Gervin never played for the Celtics.

    I hate to say this, but THE All-Time biggest disappointment for all of us - a name that could not be spoken in my house for 10 years - ladies and gentlemen, the highest pick the Celtics ever had (tied with Russ), #2 - Len Bias!!
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    In Response to Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments:
    [QUOTE]George Gervin never played for the Celtics. I hate to say this, but THE All-Time biggest disappointment for all of us - a name that could not be spoken in my house for 10 years - ladies and gentlemen, the highest pick the Celtics ever had (tied with Russ), #2 - Len Bias!!
    Posted by hedleylamarr[/QUOTE]The curse of Len Bias. Tell me about it, that one was real. We didn't win again until we brought in KG. I could have sworn that the iceman played in boston, but I just looked it up and I'm wrong. Probably won't be the last time that happens. Did the iceman go to Buffalo in the franchise trade?
     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from BaileyPowe. Show BaileyPowe's posts

    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    ha, duke! that's gonna be the immortal lieutenant pembroke burroughs of the florida highway patrol. with a reputation as an outstanding trooper, at some point burroughs was unable to attend a botched raid on a child pornography ring in virginia and deputy shaquille o'neal took his place. oh, yeah.

    do we agree that sam vincent wasn't a bad player, but who's a better choice for such a list?
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    These are all #1 Celtic draft choices.....some came into the league with great potential while others weren't household names...

    Center....I'll pick 3

    Eric Montross-Ohio St
    Acie Earl-Iowa (not to offend our fellow poster!)
    Mel Counts-Oregon St

    Power Forward...3 more

    Michael Smith-Brigham Young
    Darren Tillis-Cleveland St
    Jerome Moiso-UCLA

    Small Forward...3 again

    Michael Young-Houston (member of Phi Slama Jama..great athlete...total bust)
    Kedrick Brown-Oklahoma Walton JC
    Gerald Green-High School

    Shooting Guard...2

    Charles Bradley-Wyoming (muscular athletic type but a bust)
    Joseph Forte-North Carolina

    Point Guard....I'll take...

    Sam Vincent-Michigan State

    Eric Montross played at North Carolina, baby (not OSU).  He won a national title with the Heels (1992-1993) season and was a two-time all American.  Alas, he never reached his pro potential.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Montross
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    In Response to Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments:
    [QUOTE]George Gervin never played for the Celtics. I hate to say this, but THE All-Time biggest disappointment for all of us - a name that could not be spoken in my house for 10 years - ladies and gentlemen, the highest pick the Celtics ever had (tied with Russ), #2 - Len Bias!!
    Posted by hedleylamarr[/QUOTE]

    His death was a very sad day for all Celtics fans and changed the outlook of this team for many years. 
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    In Response to Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments:
    [QUOTE]ha, duke! that's gonna be the immortal lieutenant pembroke burroughs of the florida highway patrol. with a reputation as an outstanding trooper, at some point burroughs was unable to attend a botched raid on a child pornography ring in virginia and deputy shaquille o'neal took his place. oh, yeah. do we agree that sam vincent wasn't a bad player, but who's a better choice for such a list?
    Posted by BaileyPowe[/QUOTE]
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    Right again Bailey.....I got to meet Artis Gilmore once and we had a few laughs regarding Pembroke Burroughs III....by the way, Gilmore is the tallest dude I've ever met and very friendly....Cedrick Maxwell is the funniest guy I've ever met...truly a good guy!  ....and yes, Vincent was pretty good but a little disappointing...
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    Eric Montross is interesting

    On one hand he is a bust b/c Bird wanted the team to draft Eddie Jones.

    Reggie Lewis has passed away less than a year earlier and the team needed a young smooth scorer from the wing to ease that pain

    But with Parish leaving they needed a Center. 2nd year in a row they ignored Bird after he said take Nick Van Exel over Acie Earl.

    [Strike 3 came when they traded Sherm for Blue Edwards and Todd Day, Bird said when they did that against his wishes he knew his future was with another club - F the Gaston's]

    Anyhow, Montross was traded after just 2 mediocre seasons for a 1st round pick that ended up being #6 overall... therfore that should have made him not a bust but a piece that was used to acquire an all-star

    Too bad Bird wasn't running the show and using that pick on Tracy McGrady, instead Pitino was here picking up his college SG Ron Mercer, who fizzled after 6 not as good as they looked on paper 15-19ppg seasons to start his career

    so Montross and Mercer were both busts
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    Since the Celtics won 16 titles in the 1st 38 years the NBA existed, I'm not going to nit-pick any of the 'bust' picks they had in that era

    Starting with the Bias death that crushed Red's soul, aged the old big 3 in a matter of 2 years  and cost them at least 2 championships MANY errors were made with 1st rd picks...

    So what were the biggest ones?

    '89 - Michael Smith over Tim Hardaway

    Could have had Divac or Kemp as well but were all set to take Hardaway as Dennis Johnson's heir, with Reggie as emerging all-star and Big 3 still with 2-3 decent years left... till Red was told Smith could be another Bird by God knows who and screwed this up BAD

    '99 - The trade of this pick by Pitino for Vitaly Potopenko - horrible 

    Pick was #8 used on Andre Miller. Celts could have had Shawn Marion (9), Ron Artest(16) or even James Posey (18) as defensive SF's to pair with Pierce, or taken Jason Terry to score a ton of points

    '01 - Kederick Brown over Richard Jefferson, Troy Murphy or the option to use Denver's '02 1st rd pick instead (that ended up being better and could have been Amare) was HORRIBLE

    Also featured Joe forte over Tony Parker, who they were strogly considering but again Red didn't really know much about the French kid... was another massive blow

    '97 - Mercer over McGrady

    '94 - Montross over Eddie Jones

    '93 - Acie Earl over Nick Van Exel

    '00 - Jerome Moiso was terrible. But that was the worst draft EVER. Nobody did well in the 1st rd after that pick. Magloire and Q Rich maybe had a few decent years, that was IT.

    '05 - Gerald Green over David Lee

    '06 - Could have had Brandon Roy, then again woul not have had Theo Ratcliff exp contract to get KG one year later, prob wouldn't have gotten him with Raef's @ 2 year's left on deal

    '08 - J.R. Giddens - still curious as why Danny didn't pick a player here for another team and have a trade pre worked out that netted us a veteran bench guy to help repeat in small window

    (example Tony Allen signed for 1 year @ 4m, traded with this pick, Scal and a 2nd rd pick for Kirk Hinrich, who Bulls didn't need with Derrick Rose just picked #1)

    Instead Giddens did nothing till the Nate trade.

    Ah well

    So many to choose from
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    In my mind the future of this team was severly screwed up by draft and player personal decisions at 3 specific times between '86 and the Ainge return the club to glory regime

    #1 - Trade deadline and draft 1989

    The Mavs offered Detlef Schrempf and their 1st rd pick in '89 for McHale was 'only 30' and who Dallas wanted to replace inside big Roy Tarpley (who was suspended) and pair with Sam Perkins, an outside big. Dallas had Derek Harper, Mark Aquirre and Rolando Blackman as the other 3 starters and they put in 61 points, 15 assists and 12 boards...

    Anyhow, Boston balked, despite having all the inside info on McHale's terrible foot injury, and that team, playing w/o Bird all year, clearly in rebuild mode, chose to trade Danny, who was avg 16 points and 5 assists, for Joe Kleine and Ed Pinckney

    Make the McHale trade, then draft Tim Hardaway like you were going to and use the Dallas pick on Divac (even if they went on a tear w/ McHale they would have been in position for him).

    1989-90 Celtics have:

    C - Parish and Divac
    PF - Bird (and some Schrempf)
    SF - Schrempf (and some Reggie)
    SG - Reggie and Ainge
    PG - Hardaway, DJ (last yr, mentor to Tim)

    Then you could possibly trade promising rookie Brian Shaw for a rebounding/defense PF, or just have Shaw replace DJ after a year, not let him b!tch you and run to Europe, and pick Elden Campbell over Dee Brown (even tho Dee was great but now you have Hardaway, Shaw and Ainge).

    Those teams under Chris Ford would have TORN up and down the court, been like Run TMC in Golden State with Reggie and Schrempf almost as good as Richmond and Mullin... but Bird, Ainge, Parish and Divac still around.

    Probably would have gotten us a bunch of East finals losses to Chicago
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    Next time was 1997

    Either Bird or Larry Brown is your coach and decision maker, NOT Pitino

    These guys take McGrady over Mercer and don't cut Ben Wallace over Zan Tabak

    They have a team of young guys in '97-'98 that probbably is worse. My guess is we end up with Dirk over Pierce and then in 1999 Andre Miller.

    5 years of:

    C - Big Ben
    PF - Dirk
    SF - McGrady
    PG - Bowen
    PG - Andre Miller

    6th & 7th men Chauncey Billups and Antoine Walker

    Rounded out with Tony Battie and Eric Williams well that is pretty darn good!

     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    Final screw up came in 2001

    Joe Johnson was fine

    Should have drafted Tony Parker and (if you don't roll over pick) Troy Murphy over Joe forte and Kederick Brown.

    With Parker and Murph you don't need to trade Johnson (w/ a 1st rd pick in '02!) for Rodney Rogers and Tony Delk to stay a good playoff team.

    Then in the '02 draft you can take Tayshaun Prince or Carlos Boozer.

    Battie
    Boozer
    Antoine
    Pierce
    Johnson
    K. Anderson
    Parker

    Is one decent Center away from coming out of the East over detroit all those years
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    So those are my 3 specific years there were screw-ups that drastically altered the face of this franchise...

    Great conversation I just had with myself there:-)
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from Duke4. Show Duke4's posts

    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    Hey, nice job there buddy!!!!!  ....great analysis IMHO dude.....
     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    ACIE EARL (gulp)

    MICHAEL SMITH

    DOMINIQUE WILKINS (?)

    RAY WILLIAMS

    MUCUS BANKS

    PELVIS ELLISON
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    and lest we never forget....... STINKO VRANKOVIC and DINO "pack a day" RADJUA
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    In Response to Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments:
    [QUOTE]I don't remember the Iceman playing for us...(?)...I could be wrong....I do remember Artis Gilmore.....quick....who was his twin tower at Jacksonville......?
    Posted by Duke4[/QUOTE]

    gervin NEVER played for us.  RIGOR ARTIS played one year as parish's backup.  he was generally calcified and horrible @ 38 years old.  can't really consider that a bust so much.  but dominique @ 34 was supposed to have SOMETHING left for us!
     
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    Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments

    In Response to Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Celtics all-time 1st Team Disappointments : gervin NEVER played for us.  RIGOR ARTIS played one year as parish's backup.  he was generally calcified and horrible @ 38 years old.  can't really consider that a bust so much.  but dominique @ 34 was supposed to have SOMETHING left for us!
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    'Nique in '95

    17.8 ppg 5.2 rpg 2.2 apg 42% FG and 39% 3FG at age 35

    Not much diff from Ray age 32-34, only obv not on 3's

    'Nique had Dino, Fox and Sherm  

    Ray had KG, Pierce and Rondo

    Of course he averaged 29.1 per in the last 25 games of the season before coming to Boston.

     

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