Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    walk2run, I don't think guys played big minutes, other than Rondo.  The season is young and we should not be this tired so early.  Ray played 35 minutes and had no legs on his 3 point shot.  He shot an 0'fer on his threes.

    Other than Baby, our bench was horrible.  Nate was out of control on several occasions and missed a couple layups.  We got nothing from JON, Quis and I have no idea what Wafer was doing.

    We had no energy.  We just about won every category but had 19 turnovers.  We have to stop turning the ball over.

    It's going to be a long season.  I see the inconsistency already.
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    I watched the whole game and it was actually the bench that squandered the lead. When Nate came in, in the 2nd qtr., he forced a lot of shots. That allowed the Cavs to come back. And when the Cs had a 12-point lead in the 3rd JO committed a lot of silly fouls which resulted in another Cavs comeback.

    The box scores don't always tell the whole story. 
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from PACelt. Show PACelt's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    Didn't see the game.  Haven't seen the box except the crawl on espn.  13 for PP and 12 for RA.  Having watched them last year, I'll guess they didn't take arguably one of the worst teams in the league seriously.  Losses to Clips, Nets, etc.

    This is the difference between this "big 3"  and the real BIG 3.  We didn't lose to teams that we were supposed to beat.  It's a matter of pride.  Don't understand how the coach let's them get away with it.  Can't believe that Garnett let's it happen, but they are different since they won.

    17 losses at home last year.

    Celtic Pride???

    PA
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from existentialparquet. Show existentialparquet's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    Yeah the bench lost the lead. Should Doc trust them and get blown out? I sort of saw this coming, and this is a sacrifice I am willing to live with. The starters played hard against the Heat. The Heat needed to lose. The Cavs could use a win. The Celtics will play better. The Celtics should have closed this out, but they missed shots.

    Ray doesn't have the lift on the shot on the back to back. He will play less minutes when Delonte comes back. Wafer can't get him the rest he needs.
     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from hedleylamarr. Show hedleylamarr's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    Turning point in the game were the two T's with about 7 and a half left in the game.  We never recovered from that.  In addition, although it shouldn't have come down to it, that was the longest one second in the history of recorded time.  Catch, pivot, square, elevate and out of hand.  All in one second?

    But I agree Ray gets rest when Delonte comes back..........all 3 of them should only play about 70 games anyway.  Pick nights to rest them..........individually of course!
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    In Response to Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again):
    [QUOTE]Wafer can't get him the rest he needs.
    Posted by existentialparquet[/QUOTE]

    Well, then let's double marquis' duty.  he seems to be playing well. 

    To me, it makes no sense to keep the gas pedal floored on ray for any period of time.  This will be year 4 of that trick with the C's and him and it hasn't worked.  The more you push a tired and ineffective aged player, the more injury prone they are and the more likely ray will disappear late in the season (just like the last three years)
     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    In Response to Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again) : Well, then let's double marquis' duty.  he seems to be playing well.  To me, it makes no sense to keep the gas pedal floored on ray for any period of time.  This will be year 4 of that trick with the C's and him and it hasn't worked.  The more you push a tired and ineffective aged player, the more injury prone they are and the more likely ray will disappear late in the season (just like the last three years)
    Posted by aciemvp[/QUOTE]

    Don't forget that Daniels is not a 3pt shooter. Wafer was signed because of shooting ability. I don't know why he keeps driving and dishing.
     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from Karllost. Show Karllost's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    Cant blame Doc too much yet about not trusting the bench. Not with JO being completely useless, Wafer invisible & Nate playing out of control again and even missing bunnies..

    Only bench players getting it done are Baby & Quis.  Quis should be getting more minutes imo... hes really upped his game.

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from EastTraveler. Show EastTraveler's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    If there is no depth at this point on the bench to get it done we should get use to these nail biting scenarios.  Are Celtic's fans actually really surprised?

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    In Response to Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again):
    [QUOTE]If there is no depth at this point on the bench to get it done we should get use to these nail biting scenarios .  Are Celtic's fans actually really surprised?
    Posted by Smokenshot[/QUOTE]

    Nail biting scenarios, in the regular season, makes a team a better in closing out games in the playoffs. 
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from siestafiesta. Show siestafiesta's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    Wow, the OP may want to look at the box score before making such a ridiculous commentI'd say the minutes were pretty well distributed.  Problem was the bench wasn't very good other than Baby.

    KG 29 mins
    Pierce 33
    Shaq 21
    Allen 35
    Rondo 38
    JO 12 (would have played more if he didn't foul out)
    Daniels 18
    Nate 12
    Wafer 7
    Baby 33
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from PACelt. Show PACelt's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    13 of 19 TO's by the starters and it's the bench that lost the game.  Granted the starters played more minutes, but they are starters for a reason. 

    PA
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    In Response to Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again):
    [QUOTE]13 of 19 TO's by the starters and it's the bench that lost the game.  Granted the starters played more minutes, but they are starters for a reason.  PA
    Posted by PACelt[/QUOTE]
    Exactly...it was the starters that lost the game in the fourth quarter; and frankly, they looked complaicent on the floor and sounded laid back after the game.  More reason to use the bench, they obviously have more energy from not playing much, but also should not be complaicent at all.  Quis is looking great and could have taken 5-7 more minutes to help Ray out and then maybe Ray would not have gone 0 for 5 on three's. This ain't rocket science, the big 3 are old by NBA standards and shouldn't be playing35 minutes a night, especially on back to back nights. Thier laid back demeanor after a loss should tell Doc Rivers all he needs to know....19 turnovers, please...
     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    In Response to Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again):
    [QUOTE]13 of 19 TO's by the starters and it's the bench that lost the game.  Granted the starters played more minutes, but they are starters for a reason.  PA
    Posted by PACelt[/QUOTE]

    You said you didn't see the game so how can you tell if it was really the fault of the starters?

    I saw the game. The Celtics were leading in the 2nd qtr. until Nate came in and took ill advised shots. In the 3rd qtr. the Celtics had a 12-point lead, but when the bench came in JO made so many errors the lead evaporated. And when Nate was given a tech in the 4th qtr., for kicking a Cavs player, it all went downhill from there.
     
  15. You have chosen to ignore posts from P34. Show P34's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    In Response to Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again):
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again) : Exactly...it was the starters that lost the game in the fourth quarter; and frankly, they looked complaicent on the floor and sounded laid back after the game.  More reason to use the bench, they obviously have more energy from not playing much, but also should not be complaicent at all.  Quis is looking great and could have taken 5-7 more minutes to help Ray out and then maybe Ray would not have gone 0 for 5 on three's. This ain't rocket science, the big 3 are old by NBA standards and shouldn't be playing35 minutes a night, especially on back to back nights. Thier laid back demeanor after a loss should tell Doc Rivers all he needs to know....19 turnovers, please...
    Posted by futbal[/QUOTE]

    The starters built the lead, the bench lost the lead twice, in the 2nd and 3rd qtrs. 

    Their laid back demeanor is just that, a demeanor. It doesn't mean that they don't care. Nobody likes to lose, it's just unfortunate that going 82-0 is impossible. 

    With young players you can yell and scream at them. But the Celtics are a veteran team, treating them like rookies will not help.
     
  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    BBD is balling! His confidence is high and he's playing some good ball.

    Nate got a little carried away with some shots. JON is going to have to play better. I would use Erden over JON because Erden has more skills that are needed for the bench (set screens, passing, rebounding)
     
  17. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    Agreed, the subs blew leads in the middle quarters.
    Agreed, the starters could not win the game in Q4.
    So where is there more upside, in trying to develop the bench even when they are doing poorly (ie, let them play through it) or running the starters into the ground? We saw how the latter turned out last night. Not rocket science, actually it's more like linear equations which is a little like rocket science, but the key is trying to get the maximum outcome from diminishing inputs (ie, subs who aren't doing well or starters who are warn out)...
     
  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from soups. Show soups's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    The bench started the 4th quarter right up until the 7 minute mark.

    If that isn't a sign of trust, I don't know what is.  That move actually hurt the C's bigtime.   Leaving Wafer on the floor to start that quarter proved dismal.  Not one starter played in the 4th until about 7:30 left.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from BiasLewis. Show BiasLewis's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    Doc is trying all sorts of stuff right now.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from KGLove. Show KGLove's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    Ok if we lose to the Knicks on Friday then we might have a problem! -__-
     
  21. You have chosen to ignore posts from jtkl. Show jtkl's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    I'm actually not that surprised we lost last night. Cleveland was jazzed. It was their opening night with a new fiery coach and a lot of players that want to prove they are more than the lebronettes. Also, they have some youth and athleticism and caught us with our guard down after an emotional win.

    For those calling on Quis to give Ray a rest that isn't realistic he is not a 3 point shooter (although I think he has improved.) We'll be fine when we get Delonte back. We'll be able to give Ray the rest he needs.

     
  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from aciemvp. Show aciemvp's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    In Response to Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again):
    [QUOTE]For those calling on Quis to give Ray a rest that isn't realistic he is not a 3 point shooter (although I think he has improved.) We'll be fine when we get Delonte back. We'll be able to give Ray the rest he needs.
    Posted by jtkl[/QUOTE]

    my friend, that is NO sure bet.  delonte's games played in his career have hovered around 50 per year due to injury and mental problems.  if you pair marquis with nate to extend marquis' minutes then you still have outside shootintg covered because nate can do what rondo can't in that regard.

    i really hope this team doesn't sit around complacently w/o exploring combo's, keeping subs limber and ready to go.  JON and delonte will be great if they aren't hurt but that's not likely.  therefore, in my book, you better darn well try running marquis at the 2 and 3 because at some FUTURE CRUCIAL POINT, it may well come down to that.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from futbal. Show futbal's posts

    Re: Doc Doesn't Trust Bench (Again)

    Generally, Ray does not make his threes when he is too tired to elevate. Agreed on this maybe? Ray is only 3 years younger than Shaq, i.e., he is the second oldest player on the Celtics. The coach is playing him too many minutes to maximize his effectiveness. Paul is a little better playing fatigued, but he doesn't drive to the rim as much as he used to, which was his prime strength in the fourth quarter.  Therefore, to maximize the performance from the big 3 and the two O'Neils, the bench has to play minutes, that's all there is to it. Look, they lost last night with the traditional approach of playing the stars 35 minutes; they ran out of gas. Back to back games factored in no doubt, but so did age. So, if the starters are going to run out of gas (as they did in the second half of last season) and lose a bunch of games in the fourth quarter anyways, is giving the bench more playing time to let them hopefully improve and develop chemistry anything but a better option?
     

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