Does this bother anyone else?

  1. You have chosen to ignore posts from Number6Fan. Show Number6Fan's posts

    Does this bother anyone else?

    I admit that for years I have disliked dribbling down the clock and relying on a last second jump shot/heave to win or lose the game.  It stands to reason that, as yes, Tommy says, either shooting with a couple of seconds left gives at least a chance for a rebound or putback, or driving to the hoop at least gives a chance of drawing a foul.  I know he's a good jump shooter, but PP is also one of the best drivers on the team.  Or how about heaving up an alley-oop to Rondo or Bradley?  We always seem to do the same thing.
    cheers --
     
  2. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    It was a bad shot.  It wasn't really Pierce's fault though.  He was just left there to do his thing.  He didn't have a lane to the hoop and everyone else was standing around.
     
  3. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else?:
    [QUOTE]It was a bad shot.  It wasn't really Pierce's fault though.  He was just left there to do his thing.  He didn't have a lane to the hoop and everyone else was standing around.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    I wonder what the odds are for anyone making a shot with 6 seconds left after a timeout with the defense set and the defense has a foul to give.  I bet it is  not good.  I wish instead of calling a timeout we had attacked.  The last play I don't think went as designed but who else is going to create a shot?  That is why Doc puts it in PP hands.  I read in the post last night that everyone knew he wouldn't pass the ball.  Hogwash- I have seen him hit the open man at the end of the game numerous times.  There are many reasons we lost the game last nite.  Rebounding,  missed free throws, not executing the offense.
     
  4. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else? : I wonder what the odds are for anyone making a shot with 6 seconds left after a timeout with the defense set and the defense has a foul to give.  I bet it is  not good.  I wish instead of calling a timeout we had attacked.  The last play I don't think went as designed but who else is going to create a shot?  That is why Doc puts it in PP hands.  I read in the post last night that everyone knew he wouldn't pass the ball.  Hogwash- I have seen him hit the open man at the end of the game numerous times.  There are many reasons we lost the game last nite.  Rebounding,  missed free throws, not executing the offense.
    Posted by OneOnOne[/QUOTE]

    I totally agree, Rondo should have just driven to the hoop and dished.

      The last shot is just one possession.  If Allen makes two more shots over the course of the game that last shot doesn't even matter.



     
  5. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    Snake, I have to disagree with you there.  It was Pierce's fault.  This was set up perfectly for him to close it out.  It was a pick-and-pop and he had the advantage.  He had a 7 footer guarding him on the perimeter and he "chose" not to take him to the hoop.  He made bad decisions all the way around.

    He "chose" to wait until no time was on the clock.  He shot too late-seven seconds is a long time.  I do not buy that he had no lane to the hoop.  All he had to do was "blow by" Duncan and create a lane which would have forced Jackson to leave KG (or not).  SA wasn't expected to "give" him a lane.  There was NOBODY behind Duncan on that side of the court.  But he "chose" to throw up a bad step-back jump shot.

    Pierce does not hit jumpers going to his left as well as he does going to his right.  With SA having a foul to give, you have to attack the second you get the ball.  He dribbled all the way to the right and then dribbled back to the foul line area, footwork looked off, and attempted a shot that was off line the second it left his hand.

    It was his fault.  The second he got the ball, you knew he was never going to pass it to anyone so it does fall on him.  That's why everyone else was standing around.  We got the situation we wanted but Pierce mucked it up.  Something is wrong when your best offensive go-to weapon cannot take a 7-footer with the game on the line.  He just did not convert.
     
  6. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else?:
    [QUOTE]Snake, I have to disagree with you there.  It was Pierce's fault.  This was set up perfectly for him to close it out.  It was a pick-and-pop and he had the advantage.  He had a 7 footer guarding him on the perimeter and he "chose" not to take him to the hoop.  He made bad decisions all the way around. He "chose" to wait until no time was on the clock.  He shot too late-seven seconds is a long time.  I do not buy that he had no lane to the hoop.  All he had to do was "blow by" Duncan and create a lane which would have forced Jackson to leave KG (or not).  SA wasn't expected to "give" him a lane.  There was NOBODY behind Duncan on that side of the court.  But he "chose" to throw up a bad step-back jump shot. Pierce does not hit jumpers going to his left as well as he does going to his right.  With SA having a foul to give, you have to attack the second you get the ball.  He dribbled all the way to the right and then dribbled back to the foul line area, footwork looked off, and attempted a shot that was off line the second it left his hand. It was his fault.  The second he got the ball, you knew he was never going to pass it to anyone so it does fall on him.  That's why everyone else was standing around.  We got the situation we wanted but Pierce mucked it up.  Something is wrong when your best offensive go-to weapon cannot take a 7-footer with the game on the line.  He just did not convert.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    Not to call you out but you really think it's okay for everyone else to stand around because they "knew" he wasn't going to pass the ball?

    You make valid points but you can't blame him for being the only guy with enough cherries to want it.  

     
  7. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    BTW, I'm not blaming this loss on Pierce's missed last shot by no means.  As many of you point out, there were so many other reasons for this loss but his failure to convert a last second shot is one of the reasons.

    We keep SA from getting 6 offensive rebounds in the 4th quarter and we win.  PP makes that final shot and we win.  We hit 1 of 2 free throws with Rondo, Bass and Pav go to the line and we win.

    There were so many reasons but Pierce's failure is included.

     
  8. You have chosen to ignore posts from puddinpuddin. Show puddinpuddin's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else? : I totally agree, Rondo should have just driven to the hoop and dished.   The last shot is just one possession.  If Allen makes two more shots over the course of the game that last shot doesn't even matter.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    Rondo does that in the first three quarters... not at crunch time.

    When's the last time you've seen that happen with the game on the line?

    If he tries driving... foul him and watch what happens next.

    Likely not pretty. That's why.

    Pud

     
  9. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else? : Rondo does that in the first three quarters... not at crunch time. When's the last time you've seen that happen with the game on the line? If he tries driving... foul him and watch what happens next. Likely not pretty. That's why. Pud
    Posted by puddinpuddin[/QUOTE]

    That was way bigger than Pierce's miss.  He just stopped at the three point line and was dribbling the ball into the floor if he attacks Doc never calls a time out.

     
  10. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else? : Not to call you out but you really think it's okay for everyone else to stand around because they "knew" he wasn't going to pass the ball? You make valid points but you can't blame him for being the only guy with enough cherries to want it.  
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]
    With everyone posting on the right side of the court, yes, I do expect everyone to stay on that side and "wait" as Pierce dribbles back toward the middle.  There is not enough time to have everyone running around looking for the ball.  With everyone posted on the right side, Pierce has the left side to himself to "blow by" Duncan (with KG and Stephen Jackson the only players on that left side) and make something happen.

    Once Pierce got around Duncan (which everyone should expect he'd be capable of doing), THAT is when others would move and get open.  But since Pierce waited way too long to even attempt to do something, it all went on him.

    Once Pierce blows by Duncan (which he chose not to do), the Spurs would have been scambling to rotate and we would have had more opportunities to find an open man.

    But Pierce waited too long because he chose to be the hero.
     
  11. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else? : That was way bigger than Pierce's miss.  He just stopped at the three point line and was dribbling the ball into the floor if he attacks Doc never calls a time out.
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]
    I agree with you on that too.  I yelled "why are you stopping to call time out".  We just failed miserably in crunch time.
     
  12. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else?:
    [QUOTE]Snake, I have to disagree with you there.  It was Pierce's fault.  This was set up perfectly for him to close it out.  It was a pick-and-pop and he had the advantage.  He had a 7 footer guarding him on the perimeter and he "chose" not to take him to the hoop.  He made bad decisions all the way around. He "chose" to wait until no time was on the clock.  He shot too late-seven seconds is a long time.  I do not buy that he had no lane to the hoop.  All he had to do was "blow by" Duncan and create a lane which would have forced Jackson to leave KG (or not).  SA wasn't expected to "give" him a lane.  There was NOBODY behind Duncan on that side of the court.  But he "chose" to throw up a bad step-back jump shot. Pierce does not hit jumpers going to his left as well as he does going to his right.  With SA having a foul to give, you have to attack the second you get the ball.  He dribbled all the way to the right and then dribbled back to the foul line area, footwork looked off, and attempted a shot that was off line the second it left his hand. It was his fault.  The second he got the ball, you knew he was never going to pass it to anyone so it does fall on him.  That's why everyone else was standing around.  We got the situation we wanted but Pierce mucked it up.  Something is wrong when your best offensive go-to weapon cannot take a 7-footer with the game on the line.  He just did not convert.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    Sorry Petey I don't agree with much of what you say. He caught the ball at midcourt. He then proceeded to curl of KG's pick, Tim picked him up, at the point there is not 1 driving lane open to the right. Manu would have immediately attacked him along with Duncan. Those are pretty good defensive players IMO. That would maybe and I repeat maybe left Rondo open but I imagine they would have charge him and he would have had to pass to Bradley. The whole time Ray never moved from his spot on the court. Behind the 3 line being covered. Paul did the only thing he could do, manufacture a shot from nothing. I am not making this up either. I have it on my screen right now looking at it. If you DVRed it , watch the end and tell me how he could have took Duncan to the rim? I don't think PP "chose" anything. I also know he will hit the open man if there is one.
    I generally agree with your posts but not this one.   Please watch again and tell me what you see.
     
  13. You have chosen to ignore posts from snakeoil123. Show snakeoil123's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

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    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else? : With everyone posting on the right side of the court, yes, I do expect everyone to stay on that side and "wait" as Pierce dribbles back toward the middle.  There is not enough time to have everyone running around looking for the ball.  With everyone posted on the right side, Pierce has the left side to himself to "blow by" Duncan (with KG and Stephen Jackson the only players on that left side) and make something happen. Once Pierce got around Duncan (which everyone should expect he'd be capable of doing), THAT is when others would move and get open.  But since Pierce waited way too long to even attempt to do something, it all went on him. Once Pierce blows by Duncan (which he chose not to do), the Spurs would have been scambling to rotate and we would have had more opportunities to find an open man. But Pierce waited too long because he chose to be the hero.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    I get your point he should have went to the hole, but I don't think it was as easy as you say. Also it appears Doc called the ISO for him.  I just occasionally feel bad for Pierce in these moments because he is the only guy on the team that Doc trusts to be able to get his own shot and also has the cherries to do it.

     

     
  14. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else?:
    [QUOTE]In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else? : I get your point he should have went to the hole, but I don't think it was as easy as you say. Also it appears Doc called the ISO for him.  I just occasionally feel bad for Pierce in these moments because he is the only guy on the team that Doc trusts to be able to get his own shot and also has the cherries to do it.  
    Posted by snakeoil123[/QUOTE]

    Snake , if possible watch the whole last play again and you will see exactly what I described.  I think PP created about the only shot available.  As Doc said he liked everthing except it took too long.  Not sure what Doc like about it though, everyone standing around. Duncan is just too good a defender to allow Pierce to just blow by him.  No doubt Manu would have doubled him , then we would be talking about a TO.  The refs usually swallow their whistle at that point of the game and I figure they would have then as well.
     
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  16. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    OneOnOne, I see what you're saying about Ginobilli guarding Rondo in the corner.  However, in spite of this Pierce has to still ATTEMPT to get to the rim.  As good a defender as Duncan is, I'll take my chances with the ball in Pierce's hands to get by him with 5 seconds left.  With 5, 4, 3 seconds left and Duncan guarding him, Pierce HAS to get by him.  Do the "Lebron" thing-put your head down and drive the ball.  The only thing Duncan could have done is committed a blocking foul (foul to give) but there is no way Duncan keeps Pierce from getting past him.  Pierce HAD to do that immediately though.

    Also, the one thing Rondo and Bradley do well is cut to the rim.  If Pierce gets past Duncan (immediately), Ginobilli rotates and Rondo follows behind cutting to the rim.  If we attack at 5 seconds instead of settling for a step back jumper at the buzzer our chances are better.

    The second Pierce got the ball, his body language (and maybe the play called for the ISO) showed he "got this" and wasn't passing the ball.  In those instances, you expect your "go-to guy" to force the action and make something positive happen.  That is what he's supposed to do.  He's not Pierce because he chokes in those situations.  It's because he's expected to take us home.
     
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  18. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

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    [QUOTE]OneOnOne, I see what you're saying about Ginobilli guarding Rondo in the corner.  However, in spite of this Pierce has to still ATTEMPT to get to the rim.  As good a defender as Duncan is, I'll take my chances with the ball in Pierce's hands to get by him with 5 seconds left.  With 5, 4, 3 seconds left and Duncan guarding him, Pierce HAS to get by him.  Do the "Lebron" thing-put your head down and drive the ball.  The only thing Duncan could have done is committed a blocking foul (foul to give) but there is no way Duncan keeps Pierce from getting past him.  Pierce HAD to do that immediately though. Also, the one thing Rondo and Bradley do well is cut to the rim.  If Pierce gets past Duncan (immediately), Ginobilli rotates and Rondo follows behind cutting to the rim.  If we attack at 5 seconds instead of settling for a step back jumper at the buzzer our chances are better. The second Pierce got the ball, his body language (and maybe the play called for the ISO) showed he "got this" and wasn't passing the ball.  In those instances, you expect your "go-to guy" to force the action and make something positive happen.  That is what he's supposed to do.  He's not Pierce because he chokes in those situations.  It's because he's expected to take us home.
    Posted by Petey62[/QUOTE]

    While i respect your opinion i just don't agree. I have looked numerous times and I still don't see what you say. PP got the ball where he was guarded by Duncan with 4 seconds left, to the right is RR and AB. One guy could guard both, AB's man is cheating toward the basket. Ray has never moved from the left side. Stationary. To try and split Manu and Duncan just isn't going to happen very many times and the refs more than likely would not call a foul.  If they call it before the shot we are down to 2 seconds bringing the ball inbounds, the odds get even worse then.   If  he goes back to the left Jackson probably cuts him off and KG is near the 3 pt line.  Not his best look when Jackson charges him.  Ray still hasn't moved.   Your expecting PP to just go to the rack on one of the best defensive centers of all time?  He gets rejected and everyone says he should know better than go at Duncan.  The play itself was what was bad.  No one moved and you blame PP?  Like i have said he has made many game passing assists.  There was NO ONE to pass the ball too and you also put that on PP? You also are Monday Morning quarterbacking  a couple of splits seconds and putting it all on one player.  My only defense is watch it again and again and tell me what you see.
     
  19. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    Fierce, if a 6'7" small forward cannot get by Duncan, then something is wrong with that SF.  Duncan is great (heckuva defender) but no way he keeps Pierce from getting around him IF PIERCE forced it.

    Think about it, would Duncan have moved his feet so fast that he could get position and in front of Pierce to cause a charge?  NOPE.  Would Duncan have simply let Pierce go and "stayed with him" and blocked his shot at the rim?  NOPE.  Duncan, in that situation, was at Pierce's mercy.

    Forget Duncan's defense, which is against centers and PFs.  We're talking about Pierce.  One of the most complete offensive players ever and still capable (eastern conf player of the week).

    The only option for Duncan was to stay 3 steps back and PRAY that Pierce takes an off-balance, step-back jumper with no time on the clock.  THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT PIERCE DID.
     
  20. You have chosen to ignore posts from OneOnOne. Show OneOnOne's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    One other point.  I have it on the screen right now and wit 3.2 seconds left we still have 5 guys behind the 3 pt line with only 1 threat (Ray) who has been stuck in the same spot since last nite.  AB and Rondo are not a threat back there at all and they haven''t moved.  KG?  Maybe , but a contested 3.  I will take the shot we got with the way that play transpired. 
    Its OK if we disagree.  I will stop at this point. 
    Have a nice day!!!
     
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  22. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    I am not blaming this loss on Pierce.  Just the final play.  If he gets the ball, rolls off KG's screen and attacks Duncan right then, there is nothing Duncan can do.  He's not THAT great a defender against Pierce in that situation.

    But with 3.2 seconds left and everyone being on the perimeter, that leaves alot of real estate on the interior.

    As much as everyone is saying Duncan can guard a SF like Pierce in the open, I'll hedge my bet on Pierce to get around him to the rim or to pull up for a jumper - going towards the basket and closer to the rim.

    But we simply don't agree on that final play and that's cool.

    You have a great day too.
     
  23. You have chosen to ignore posts from jhol. Show jhol's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    I say the game was lost on the possession before that when Rondo once again let the ball roll down the court to save 1-2 seconds on the clock and this time got fancy and didn't pick it up. Foolish foolish foolish! I'm sick and tired of this playground play and IT cost us the game!
     
  24. You have chosen to ignore posts from Petey62. Show Petey62's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    In Response to Re: Does this bother anyone else?:
    [QUOTE]I say the game was lost on the possession before that when Rondo once again let the ball roll down the court to save 1-2 seconds on the clock and this time got fancy and didn't pick it up. Foolish foolish foolish! I'm sick and tired of this playground play and IT cost us the game!
    Posted by jhol[/QUOTE]
    I thought KG touched it first after it rolled all the way across half court.  Wouldn't that be a violation?

    I honestly did not see Rondo touch the ball.  And then KG forced a pass that resulted in a turnover with Jackson draped all over Pierce.

    Boneheaded.  I just don't see why we do that.
     
  25. You have chosen to ignore posts from jhol. Show jhol's posts

    Re: Does this bother anyone else?

    not sure ab the violation but you are right, KG touched it first but I think Rondo got cute and KG was thinking damn, he's never going to pick it up!
     

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